An M13 reprint that the major decks want to see?
General forum
Posted on May 12, 2012, 8:22 a.m. by IAmKingTony
When I say the "major" decks, I don't mean just the Pro Tour types.
I also mean decks that might be popular at local Standard tournaments, like R/B vamps or werewolves or Splinterfright dredge.
Maybe it's a reprint that will take one of these lesser tier decks and kick them up a notch, maybe it's a reprint from M12 or Scars block that will keep that deck type from dying out post-rotation.
I think good examples would be Vampire Nighthawk to kick vamps up a notch and Honor of the Pure to keep white weenie decks from falling behind.
I mentioned the Nighthawk idea and my friend instantly said that Nighthawk would be disgusting with things like Stromkirk Captain and Rakish Heir around. I think that might be true but maybe it's what vamps need to really get that push.
How about you guys? Name some good reprints but also be realistic :) Obviously reprints like Dark Rit and Goyf would be slick but I don't think we'll see those anytime soon.
if nighthawk gets out ide also want Gatekeeper of Malakir and Bloodghast but its unlikely....
well cards that are needed and likely will get repritnt ide say
Birds of Paradise and maybe Phantasmal Image
ide love Mana Leak just because were lacking a good counter but its unlikely theyl reprint it..
we can never ever forget Giant Spider though
May 12, 2012 9:08 a.m.
dude...its the anti everything..it warps formats..
without Giant Spider wede all be playing shitty decks like delver or wolf run...
the only reason decks like caw blade or affinity were ever bad was merely because some1 can put Giant Spider as a 1 of in their deck and totally demolish them..
remember the flavor text of emrakul?
"i shall eat every plane, till giant spider brings my doom"
we will all be overrun by horrible decks and all be foced to play them if Giant Spider doesnt get reprint..
May 12, 2012 9:21 a.m.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is confirmed for M13 during an interview with a WoTc employee.
May 12, 2012 10:18 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #8
Need some solid black removal. Doom Blade and Go for the Throat are both out soon. At least one of them, or something very similar, needs to get printed in M13 to make any kind of black deck viable.
Granted, if we get some reprinted black removal in return to ravnica...
May 12, 2012 10:32 a.m.
meltheadorable says... #11
I would really like to see Angelic Destiny stick around, if for no other reason than because it's a gorgeous card, and powerful without being format-warping.
May 12, 2012 2:02 p.m.
user:CrimsonKing69 - Wreath of Geists is already in Innistrad, and costs one less! May not be as efficient, but may be up your alley.
I really, REALLY want to see Ball Lightning get a reprint. Mono red just hasn't been the same since Lightning Bolt rotated, and the ball would do it some good.
May 12, 2012 4:01 p.m.
HoneyBadger says... #13
Goblin Guide, Lightning Bolt. I want my red magicz back!
I don't see goblin guide happening, but lightning bolt wouldn't be unreasonable
May 12, 2012 7:04 p.m.
Gideon Jura, Everflowing Chalice and I want man lands back!
May 12, 2012 8:13 p.m.
I think the Shocklands will receive a reprint in M13, crazy as it sounds but as Mark rosewater was saying, when creating a set there is a pendulum that swings on all the sets and WotC wants to put the pendulum at it's maximum reach in each block. Aaron Forsythe even talked about reprinting Force of Will but he said for now it will only protect combo decks where every blue card in your control deck is VERY relevant.
May 12, 2012 8:48 p.m.
Also if Lightning Bolt got reprinted, 70% of the decks in the metagame will be Red or have Red in them; specifically for the splash for Lightning Bolt. I don't it to get reprinted imo.
May 12, 2012 8:50 p.m.
Lightning Bolt was reprinted in two Core Sets and that didn't happen.
May 12, 2012 9:08 p.m.
IAmKingTony says... #19
Lightning Bolt is staying out I do believe. They talked about it in the same article that basically said Mana Leak is gone.
May 12, 2012 9:08 p.m.
Mana Leak being out basically means that Standard is a worthless format. A format based entirely around "My creature is bigger than yours so I win" is stupid.
May 12, 2012 9:17 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #21
Pre-rotation RDW would be ridiculous with Lightning Bolt back. They have Vexing Devil and should be happy enough with that.
They'll have to print a counterspell to replace Mana Leak, since control does need something.
I'm interested to see what walkers they bring back/in.
May 12, 2012 9:23 p.m.
HoneyBadger says... #22
I disagree bcurran- to me, mana leak and counter spells in general make mtg much less fun.
Granted, I am extremely jaded as the friend who got me into magic played a deck of some 20+ counter spells. It wasn't too hard to beat, but it wasn't any fun to play against.
Give me a game with explosive, aggressive decks over one where people sit around passing the turn killing and removing everything until they find a win condition.
May 12, 2012 9:39 p.m.
Well, what I say to that is that explosive aggro decks are trying to end the game before their opponent can do anything meaningful, and, fundamentally, how is that any different from countering all your meaningful spells?
May 12, 2012 10:42 p.m.
theyr not puting out Mana Leak because in conjunction with Snapcaster Mage it has become too powerful..that whats MaRo said (on twitter i think?) anyhows they are gonna replace it with something less powerful...
i just hope they dont try to force feed us Cancel ugh.
May 12, 2012 10:56 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #25
I would say they wouldn't print Cancel right after Dissipate but they did print Shock right after Galvanic Blast...
May 12, 2012 10:59 p.m.
If Mana Leak is too powerful, then why do we side most of them out in most matchups?
Oh, well, just because it's true doesn't mean R&D will listen.
May 12, 2012 11:17 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #29
@bcurran maybe this little story will shed some light. I was playing Boom goes the goblin!, a mostly aggro deck, against a control player. I have a hand of 3x Goblin Wardriver, 2x Hellrider, and 2x land. (A pretty terrible hand but I figured if I could draw into some land I should be ok.) Eventually I drew into a third Hellrider and enough land to play everything. This was the sequence of events that followed.
Turn 2 -> Goblin Wardriver. Response? Mana Leak.
Turn 3 -> Goblin Wardriver. Response? Dissipate.
Turn 4 -> Hellrider. Response? Snapcaster Mage -> Mana Leak.
Turn 5 -> Hellrider. Response? Snapcaster Mage -> Dissipate
Turn 6 -> Hellrider -> Goblin Wardriver. Responses? Mana Leak and Dissipate
Turn 7 By this point I was so frustrated I didn't care when he dropped Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite to which I immediately scooped.
This is why Mana Leak in conjunction with Snapcaster Mage is ridiculous. Mana Leak by itself is nothing but with Snapcaster Mages it becomes like having the equivalent of 8x Mana Leaks and/or 8x Dissipates in a deck.
May 12, 2012 11:37 p.m.
Well, I think it's actually because they are trying to make the game appeal to a wider audience. Getting rid of the "unfun"* aspects like land destruction and permission certainly does that. But at the end of the day, while you have a game with more mass appeal, it is a worse game than before. It is very worrying that this is the direction they are taking, because a lot of strategy is being lost in it.
It would be better for the health of Magic as a whole if they just focused on player retention rather than player acquisition. Reprint Stone Rain and Counterspell.
*Personally, I don't find permission unfun. I find slow control to be the only deck that I enjoy playing, probably due to the numerous Brainstorm variants that make me in control, and not at the mercy of the luck of the draw.
May 12, 2012 11:37 p.m.
actually delver usually runs 4 leaks and 4 snappy so 8 counters.. control runs about 6-8 counters+ snapys meaning 12-16 counters....
May 12, 2012 11:40 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #32
@Vman A lot of delver variants where I was playing would run 2x Dissipate in main board and 2x in sideboard (for mirror matches) and they would side out 2x Mana Leak for them.
May 12, 2012 11:44 p.m.
@Ohthenoises The control player got lucky and drew a very good opening hand. And your hand was admittedly "terrible."
When a Humans player draws an hand with a double Honor of the Pure and some cheap creatures, you will probably lose that game. When a R/G aggro player gets two Strangleroot Geists early, you will probably lose that game.
Does that make their cards so overpowered?
You made a poor decision to keep a bad hand, and it cost you the game. That's how Magic works. If you had mulled, you probably could have won.
May 12, 2012 11:45 p.m.
What exactly is wrong with having 12 counterspells in your deck?
When you play against a control deck, you can't resolve your "business" spells because they get countered.
When you play against an aggro deck, you can't resolve you "business" spells because you are dead.
Given that you are free to concede the game whenever you want, what difference is there between the two, besides differences in perception?
May 12, 2012 11:51 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #35
@bcurran there was nothing that I could have done to win that game. I would have had one creature out. That would have been my turn one drop and a 1/1, everything else after that got Counterspelled.
What makes it overpowered is the fact that you can use Mana Leak and Dissipate and Snapcaster Mage to make sure those creatures/enchantments never hit the board. I've played Humans before and normally what happens to me when I play turn 2 Honor of the Pure is Mana Leak without fail, followed by turn 3 Honor of the Pure with a Dissipate attached to it. So I still only have my Champion of the Parish as a 1/1.
Honor of the Pure can be destroyed.
Strangleroot Geist can be killed or blocked.
Snapcaster Mage -> Mana Leak/Dissipate can only be stopped by two things, counter magic and graveyard hate. That is a lot harder to prevent than enchantments and creatures.
May 12, 2012 11:59 p.m.
Counterspells are more versatile in their targets than removal spells. However, they are much less versatile than removal in terms of timing, because you must have them at exactly the right moment or they are useless. Believe me, there are few feelings worse than topdecking a Dissipate after a Hero of Bladehold or Primeval Titan has come down.
Disenchant costs two, while Annul can fairly cost one. The reason? Annul only works at one specific time, where Disenchant works at any time.
Again, that control player drew a very lucky hand. But countermagic specifically is not to blame. If he had instead had 2 Timely Reinforcements and 2 Day of Judgment and then followed those up with Norn, there would still be no way that you could win.
Plus, you're playing Mono-Red. You can't remove Honor of the Pure, and you can't efficiently deal with Strangleroot Geist.
May 13, 2012 12:10 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #37
I'll agree that humans is one of my worse matchups because of Honor of the Pure, control normally doesn't do very well v.s. a turn 4 kill target, and r/g aggro isn't usually present. Anyway, back on topic as this isn't my deck. You're right that it isn't specifically at fault however I was giving a worst case example of how things can go for people who are running tempo/aggro.
Honestly I don't think that Mana Leak is the issue at all but in Lou of a banning the problem they are doing the next best thing by just simply not printing something that is being used (to great efficiency I might add) in almost every blue deck.
Who knows? Maybe they will reprint Force Spike instead lol.
May 13, 2012 12:25 a.m.
I think the whole counterspell argument is a little invalid. The only deck that really uses them that turns up a lot is Delver and that's a tempo orientated deck which wants to kill you as early as possible. I could see this being an issue in a format where control is THE best archetype, but that's just no the deal with standard today. If this was caw-blade standard I think axing leak would've been a good choice.
Fact - control (or at least "big" control) is mostly dead right now, and removing Mana Leak is not going to help it get any better, hopefully Wizards gives us something nice. It's a shame cause this is my favorite deck type.
However, with M13 coming in I think we're all pretty sure the titans are gone. So wolf run will probably falter a bit and the meta will have a big shift.
May 13, 2012 12:28 a.m.
i think we might get something like
"name" uu or 1uinstant
counter target spell unless controller pays 2when "name" is put into graveyard, exile it instead.
this can fix snappy problem AND weaken leak.. but lets get back to topic...
i remember wanting a better tutor card from black..i mean seriously.....what do we have? Diabolic Tutor?
May 13, 2012 12:32 a.m.
@Ohthenoises Don' you see? That is exactly as you described it; a worst-case scenario for you. Worst-case scenarios are not a fit basis for conclusions on format health.
It is extremely rare that a control player will draw such a good hand. He literally got excatly what he needed every turn.
You know what? Snapcaster Mage is a good card. Good cards see a lot of play. However, as long as there are many different archetypes, then there is nothing wrong with the format, even if they are all using many of the same cards!
In Modern, Jund, RUG Tempo, and Zoo all play the same 8 cards; 4 Tarmogoyfs and 4 Lightning Bolts. That doesn't make them the same deck. A top 8 with 5 of these decks combined, in a 2/2/1 distribution, for example, does not signify a lack of diversity, even though so many of the same cards are being played, because the decks have vastly different game plans, which is what really matters. This line of thought should be applied to all formats.
May 13, 2012 12:38 a.m.
As a final note, so we can stop with this nonsense; Snapcaster Mage will NEVER be banned in any format. It is an Invitational card, and banning it would be a huge slap in the face for Tiago. That will not happen.
Of course, it doesn't need to be banned in any format either, so why anyone even thought to discuss it is beyond me.
May 13, 2012 12:43 a.m.
just a note i dont remember any1 asking for any bannings just saying that Mana Leak isnt getting a reprint because wizards say its too powerful (since snappy got realeased) then realizig snappy is causing more mayhem then leak.. lets get back on topic?
May 13, 2012 12:46 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #43
I know man I wasn't arguing with you I was just providing a reason behind why Wizards may have chosen to omit Mana Leak. :D
Snapcaster Mage is indeed a good card in a lot of formats and I'm sure that he will see play for a very long time. (my personal distaste for him aside lol. 90% of all the players I played with in NC were control players so I got to see a lot of Mr. Mage)
BACK TO THE SHOW! I really agree that black needs another tutor Vman and I would REALLY like a reprint of Sword of Vengeance.
May 13, 2012 12:48 a.m.
or maybe a ritual..black hasnt seen a decent ritual for a while....isnt black suposed to be good at accel? gawd wizards haha
May 13, 2012 12:50 a.m.
@Vman Ohthenoises claimed that Wizards was "blaming Mana Leak instead of banning the real problem." And I see it everywhere. It's so stupid, I wanted to make sure it didn't catch on here.
Back on topic, I want Vindicate, Ajani Vengeant, Counterspell, Stone Rain, Wasteland, Jace Beleren, and a playable one mana discard spell, any of the three good ones will do.
May 13, 2012 12:51 a.m.
Black doesn't have rituals because it doesn't fit into how they currently define Black.
Rituals fit better in Red because Red is impulsive and throws away resources (cards) in the hope of getting something better (mana acceleration).
I guess if there was some way to pay life for mana, that would fit into Black's flavour. But it's such a dangerous ability that it would either be totally broken or completely unplayable.
May 13, 2012 12:54 a.m.
that reminds me..wth are we getting for walkers in m13? we already have a new lili and a new sorin...so will they reprint lili/sorin 1.0 or a new black walker...or lili/sorin 3.0 or reprint 2.0?
another garruk? again?
jace, the im also in ravnica? lol im worried here haha
May 13, 2012 12:55 a.m.
Also I would love a Vampire Nighthawk reprint! I was shocked and appalled when it wasn't in DKA.
May 13, 2012 12:55 a.m.
well at first i was but then i realized how much more settled innistrad vamps were...just look at the way Stromkirk Noble dresses....then look at zendikars vamps...
Vampire Nighthawk,Bloodghast,Gatekeeper of Malakir,Pulse Tracker need i go on?
May 13, 2012 12:58 a.m.
cooknathan says... #50
On the topic of walkers. Going by the trailer, the walkers are bolas, garruk, jace, chandra, lilliana and ajani.
cooknathan says... #2
Elvish Archdruid
May 12, 2012 9 a.m.