Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, remove it from the game instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard.
|Want (2)||FleetingGlance33 , NotOnline|
Printings View all
|Magic 2015 (M15)||Uncommon|
|Duel Decks: Izzet vs. Golgari (DDJ)||Uncommon|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
2 weeks ago
Hi Ender666666 - I recommend replacing Dissipate with Void Shatter. The latter does the same thing, but dodges Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast. It also makes them not draw a card when they play Veil of Summer.
2 months ago
Context is important. I don't think it's possible to rank counterspells in general, as different formats want different things from cards. Swan Song is considered one of the top counterspells in cEDH as it is cheap and often provides decks with backup win condition lines (via countering your own spells for a bird army). I have seen lists that will run Swan Song but not Force of Will as the blue count in the deck is low enough that force of will is as much a liability as it is an asset.
On the other hand, Swan Song is not great in modern, giving your opponenet a 2/2 with flying can be a death sentence in a 20 life format.
It also comes down to the function of the counterspell. Is it being used in an offensive or defensive mana? Pact of Negation is a fantastic counterspell on combo turn, however paying 5 mana on your next upkeep makes for a sad panda. But protecting your double-striking damage buffed Primeval Titan or sticking your Isochron Scepter with imprinted Dramatic Reversal is nice. And you don't care about the delayed cost if the game is already over.
There's also counterspells like Ceremonious Rejection. These are considered bad (mainboard at least), but when you sit down against a tron deck and then having this in your opening hand feels good. Meanwhile, that Spell Snare that you're running might feel a lot less good.
As I said, conetext is important. Meta is important. So I would be be reluctant to try to rank counterspells on a general scale.
2 months ago
Swan Song is the only one on this list that I own, and is the limit of what I will currently pay to get a counterspell. It performs greatly against Voltron and Spellslinger, okat against Combo and Ramp, and not well against any Aggro or Wide strategies. The unpredictability of Swan Song makes it slightly less powerful than Force or Pact, but for a lesser price it is worth it.
Void Shatter is a flavor win for me. I'm an Eldrazi nut, so I love the Devoid cards. And Void Shatter is a cool one to look at. Honestly though, it isn't as good as the others, as it's a colorless Dissipate. However, Mystical Dispute can't weaken it, so it's not terrible.
Force of Will is one of the most recognizable counterspells in MTG, and the most expensive. It is essentially a free counterspell. The drawback is much too low for a free counter to anything. I personally think the card needs a serious reprint and that its pals Contagion and Bounty of the Hunt are underrated.
Pact of Negation is interesting. While costing much more than a normal Cancel, both in terms of mana and in terms of money, it can be played when all your lands are tapped. Plus, with Hive Mind you can boot any non blue players. Slaughter Pact has the same problem, but is less evil. A cool card but also kind of niche.
Finally, Mana Drain. I live this card. It allows you to make crazy plays early on without having your own mana. Absolutely terrible in Vintage, but in Commander it has a lot of value. There isn't a whole lot to say about this card, but it is my second favorite on the list and the one I deem to be second most powerful.
Pact of Negation
Force of Will
Power Level (Least to Most)
Pact of Negation
Force of Will
Let me know if you want to see more like this, and let's discuss! Remember that everyone's opinion is valuable and noone's opinion is wrong.
2 months ago
Today's infinite combo is in mono-red, but card suggestions outside of red are welcome. The combo:
The point of this thread: is to come up with card suggestions to add to the 99 of this theoretical deck that will help guarantee this combo will win the game. The problems this combo faces are outlined in the sections Hole A, Hole B and Hole C. Suggestions for combating any one of these three holes is greatly appreciated.
How this combo works: To start you just need to have all three cards listed on the battlefield. So long as the Seasoned Pyromancer creates at least one token you'll be able to sacrifice both the token and the pyromancer to Ashnod's Altar to generate mana which you can recur with Nim Deathmantle. This means theoretically you have created infinite draw/filtering, infinite 1/1 tokens for every time you discard two nonland cards and infinite colorless mana off those infinite tokens. Of course however, there are certain holes in this strategy that hinder it.
Hole A of this combo: Whenever a deck comes up with infinite draw, it should be noted that it is never truly infinite card draw unless you can refill your library an endless number of times. Otherwise drawing too many cards when you don't have a library can result in losing the game. Since our token generation and mana generation are both directly tied to the number of times we can draw/filter cards that means our token and mana production is just as limited unless we can solve the infinite draw issue. This is what I'd refer to as Hole A.
Solutions and Problems to Hole A: One possible solution to regenerate one's library is to run either Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. Given the last ability of either one, if either titan ends up in the graveyard they will simply reshuffle our graveyard back into our library, and given our combo is always discarding cards this task should be easy. BUT it's not a perfect solution. Suppose in the following scenario we reshuffle our library and the following two statements happen to be true: (1) The Eldrazi titan is positioned as one of the bottom three cards in our library and (2) our library has an odd number of cards in it. If you were to continuously filter cards under this situation there would be no possible way to discard the Eldrazi titan without completely drawing out from your deck and losing the game as a consequence. This is also true if our library has an even number of cards in it and the Eldrazi titan makes up one of the two bottom cards of our library. You would need some extra card to fix this problem or else the combo would be limited to either noted event occurring.
Possibly a better solution than running the Elderazi titans would be to run Elixir of Immortality instead. Given we don't need to discard the Elixir to use its effects and our combo can generate excess colorless mana after each loop it should be feasible to cast and activate the Elixir so long as our library has more nonland cards in it than land cards. This solution isn't perfect either but it's better than using the Eldrazi titans. In the event our library has an even number of cards in it we'll always be able to draw into the Elixir of Immortality regardless of where its located in our deck. However the same can't be said if our library has an odd number of cards. In the event our library has an odd number of cards, if the Elixir happens to be at the very bottom of our deck, the last card, there would be no way to draw the elixir using our combo without over-drawing from our library. That means there is still a hole in this strategy, albeit a smaller one, but the question still remains; is there a better card for the job?
Hole B of this combo: Just like Hole A, Hole B is another chance phenomenon that can derail our ability to continue the combo. Let's say under the given scenario our library currently has more nonland cards in it than land cards and we have 2 nonland cards and 2 land cards in hand when we start the combo. (Theoretically producing the tokens needed to continuously draw cards should be possible, but let's continue on with this scenario.) As we cycle through 2 cards at a time let's pretend that each consecutive two cards we draw is a land and a nonland together. This by itself would be enough just to keep the combo going, but then the unthinkable happens. We suddenly hit a massive land block in our deck, let's say the next 10 consecutive cards are all lands (despite how rare that chance may be). At this point we'd be at a deficit of negative mana per cycle just to dredge through each of these lands in order so that we can get to all the nonland cards beyond it. More than not, this scenario would be where our combo falls short due to this rare chance ordering of lands. This is Hole B of our combo.
Solutions and Problems to Hole B: When tackling the Hole B scenario, let's pretend we already have the perfect solution to Hole A that allows us to constantly shuffle cards in our graveyard back to our hand without fail. This is primarily to focus on the Hole B dilemma. One fact to keep in mind is given most decks tend to have more nonland cards than land cards it should be a given that with each deck shuffle we should end up with more tokens than before and thus more disposable mana to bypass any land blocks that may occur later on in the combo. So a given fact here is the later in the combo we go the less problematic Hole B starts to become. It's only before the first or second reshuffle that Hole B has the greatest potential to derail this combo.
One solution to Hole B is to use Shenanigans. Because of how dredge works we can always choose to have one of our cards be the dredged card. In this scenario we have guaranteed that one of the cards drawn or in this case dredged will always be a nonland card meaning our only outcomes from here on out will always be land + Shenanigans OR nonland + Shenanigans meaning there's no chance to lose value and always a chance to gain value. While this may seem like a perfect solution this problem it runs in direct contrast with our dilemma in Hole A. If we're using Elixir of Immortality as our card cycler of choice there's always the possibility we could accidentally dredge the Elixir into or graveyard by mistake and thus losing our ability to cycle our graveyard back into the library. While we wouldn't need to worry about dredging the Eldrazi titans away by mistake, that would mean we'd have to use a less effective Hole A solution in order to combat the problem that is Hole B. It should also be noted that since Shenanigans has Dredge 1 it won't be able to change our library from having and even number of cards to an odd number of cards and vice versa. In order to change the even or oddness of a library you'd need to use an off-color dredge card with an even dredge number to change the state of your library's even/odd card count. So is dredge the right solution to Hole B or is there another alternative that could work in its place?
Hole C of this combo: Lastly yet most importantly, we need an actual way to win with this combo. While infinite card draw, infinite tokens and infinite colorless mana are really powerful, together they are not enough to win you the game right away. For that we'd need to have yet another card in our library dedicated to abusing any one of these qualities to win us the game on the spot. While this may be the easiest hole to fill in the question ultimately sits at; what is the best solution to Hole C?
I've come up with three win conditions that work, but if you know of one better I'd like to hear what wincon you'd prefer best. The three cards that come to my mind are Anger, Walking Ballista and Blasting Station. Anger would be an easy card to dump into the graveyard which would be what we could give our massive token army haste to win the game. This strategy can bypass annoying cards like Leyline of Sanctity and Propaganda as we can easily pay the price with our infinite colorless mana, but cards such as Crawlspace or Spore Frog could easily stop this win condition. If we use Walking Ballista or Blasting Station we'd have the mana to cast either and all the tokens needed to be sac'd for either to deal lethal damage, but both these win condition cards would easily be beaten if our opponents have a Leyline of Sanctity or a Dissipate. So, what is the best win condition for an infinite combo like this one?
4 months ago
As far as counters go, I don't play many and when I do it's to protect my stuff. You can never go wrong with Counterspell. I like Rebuff the Wicked, Disallow, Cancel, Dissipate, Unwind,Countersquall, Absorb. That new Fierce Guardianship is pretty cool.
7 months ago
Yarok - You didn't link your deck. You can do it like this:
Also, I tried searching for it on the site and it didn't show up :\
[[deck:The Song of Phyresis]]
Wicker - You can link cards like this:
As for my thoughts on each card? I'll try and keep my tangents short lol.
Disallow: is cool, but not very good in a Sliver deck because it belongs in a Baral, Chief of Compliance deck. I mean, not only does it feature him in the card art, it actually lowers the CMC to , making the card a strictly better counterspell. I slotted in Mana Drain, but if cost is an issue and you want a good to decent counterspell that is not Counterspell i'd consider Forbid, Mana Leak, Arcane Denial, Hinder, Rewind, or Dissipate.
Kindred Summons: Cool. But can be a massive dude of a card if you dont have any topdeck manipulation ala Scroll Rack, Mirri's Guile, or Sensei's Divining Top. Notable combinations with this card would be Worldly Tutor or Vampiric Tutor.
Mystical Tutor: If your deck relies heavily on interaction/instant speed removal then this wouldn't be bad inclusion. The only issue is that MT won't be doing much outside of getting you some potential interaction, meaning that you'll be holding up mana you could be using to better establish your boardstate.
Coat of Arms / Door of Destinies / Vanquisher's Banner: Depends on how you want to build your deck - if you want to rely primarily on combat damage being your wincon then any of the previously mentioned are worth it. I'd run all three in addition to Shared Animosity, Magma Sliver and Sliver Legion.
Heartstone: Be careful with this one. It's effect applies to your opponents' creatures as well. I'd never include this because I like to be shrewd and not unknowingly enable my opponents to win. If you insist on including this you better be sure you're going to win on the turn you play it.
Distant Melody: I generally don't like spells that are contingent on how many creatures I have in play, because it's only good under very specific conditions that can be influenced by opponents. I'd go with Dormant Sliver or Synapse Sliver.
Cryptolith Rite: Is an okay card. I apply the same logic to this card as I would Distant Melody. This card is only as good as the number of creatures you have in play, which can be influenced by opponents. If someone boardwipes and this card is in hand it's literally a dead card.
Unnatural Selection: A fun card that used to be in this deck. I eventually cut it because it was banned in my local LGS which was hosting an EDH league. It obviously has great synergy with Sliver Overlord - but nothing else. The card is pretty niche - but it's fun. If you want to go for a more casual build with Sliver Overlord at the helm, then i'd run this.
7 months ago
Even if this is a budget deck, Sinister Sabotage, Dissolve, and Dissipate are all cheap alternatives to Cancel. Even Manalith is strictly better than Obelisk of Grixis, and Chromatic Lantern and Coalition Relic come with upside. If those cost too much, Mana Geode is still better. Please make these upgrades. They will make the deck better. Love the description! Why does TappedOut think this is a standard deck?
7 months ago
Sorry it's been a minute but finally getting around to physically upgrading this deck.
I appreciate all of your imput and please don't think it's gone unnoted Here is the list I currently have for replacements
X - Finale of Promise - Idk what to sub...
X - Past in Flames
I know you've spent a lot of time in your previous suggestions, and I really appreciate the effort man Honestly. Would you mind taking a look at what I've come up with and see if there's any room for the X's?
About to put an order in for an upgrade on this. Kessy is going to be my first cEDH deck I wanna upgrade.