All Nightmare Long (SBT Primer)
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 170 | 149 COMMENTS | 65461 VIEWS | IN 104 FOLDERS
Less Jank More #Winning —Dec. 19, 2017
Good Evening,
Given that some relevant tech has been uncovered in the last few months and the deck is badly in need of a facelift, I am making a number of changes to the list. My focus is to address the tendency for this list to get stuck in topdeck mode and to better protect our attempts at winning.
Skullclamp-->Flash of Insight: While I love the clamp engine (even though its janky), I like the ability to protect my win conditions with no interaction in hand more. Here is how. Once Hermit Druid or SBT (with Food Chain Combo) has milled us out we can flashback Memory's Journey to shuffle Pact of Negation into our library. From there we flashback Flash of Insight to put Pact of Negation in hand in response to disruption. With how mana efficient the Necrotic Ooze finisher is I can do this for just 1GGU on the combo turn (G for HD; U for Fatestitcher which we get back; G for Memory's Journey; and 1U for Flash of Insight), which is on curve for a turn 3 win assuming turn 1 ramp. Flash of insight also helps us put mana to good use on oir endstep if we are desperate. Credit to LabManiac_Sigi.
Bloodghast-->Fatestitcher: With clamp out of the picture, Fatestitcher is clearly better than our vampire friend as it is a more consistent combo enabler and can even proactively protect Dread Return by tapping down blue mages islands then going for the win during our second main phase. Credit to Voidia.
Phantasmagorian-->Cephalid Inkshrouder: I've never liked Phantasmo's fat body or combo only status. Inkshrouder is somewhat worse in some ways as a discard outlet since it does nothing if Necrotic Ooze or Dread Return are in hand and it makes Fatesticher sad. However, the upside cannot be denied. Inkshrouder keeps people from targeting nooze once he is in play, which seems mildly relevant. Also you can use its ability with less than 3 cards in hand, which sometimes matters. Credit to LabManiac_Dan.
Daze-->Dispel: Daze is "free"ish but it kind of stinks most of the time. Dispel is vastly better most of the time as it is fantastic in counterspell wars and when going for the win. Given that Daze was included in part for bloodghast shenanigans this is a simple swap. Delay, Negate, Stifle, Pongify, Toxic Deluge, Winds of Rebuke or even spells like preodain and Impulse are also justifable options in this slot.
As an aside, If you choose Winds of Rebuke there is a dank wincondition with Eternal Witness once nooze produces infinite mana if somehow labman and ballista are exiled. Simply use Apprentice Necromancer's ability to reanimate ewitness which returns winds to hand. Then infinitely bounce ewitness with winds of rebuke to mill the table.
But why stop there...
Grim Tutor-->Dark Confidant: Grim Tutor is simply one mana too much. I have literslly lost every game where I have cast this spell so perhaps its time to have a more consistently good card that also helps me cast Eternal Scourge for free with Food Chain mana in this slot. When in doubt go with high quality cards that produce card advantage.
Bazaar of Baghdad-->Sylvan Library: Bazaar is sometimes dank, but its always card disadvantage and since it takes up a land drop it sometimes slows us down considerably. This list is not a perfect fit for bazaar either as it is not a dredge list or reanimator. Sylvan library on the other hand is simply a great card that gives us topdeck control and card advantage. Both are needed here. Credit to biopouvoir
As a side benefit to the above changes, our best protection spell/oh shit button (Force of Will) a hell of alot better as we have 3 more completely expendable blue spells to pitch in a time of need. Hopefully this will make us harder to stop and allow us to recover better from setbacks. Also we did all this while maintaing a relatively lean curve for endstep Ad Nauseams. Until next time
Cheers,
Lilbrudder
Blighted bat is there to give necrotic ooze haste.
Seems like a solid list when goldfishing, gonna see if I can try it out this week.
May 21, 2017 10:54 p.m.
costrander3689 says... #3
I'd be lying if I said I initially clicked on the deck for any reason other than the a7x reference.
Happy I did, though. Terrifying deck. +1
May 22, 2017 7:04 a.m.
costrander3689 says... #4
I've made a terrible mistake, identifying a Metallica lyric as an A7X one... my sincerest apologies
May 22, 2017 9:27 a.m.
Grantley91 says... #5
What would your suggestions be if you were going to go budget? Obviously cut the Bazaar, lol.
May 22, 2017 8:06 p.m.
What're your thoughts on Extract? I know you're only running Eternal Scourge but it acts as a tutor for it as well as providing proactive hate against other decks (hitting Paradox Engine, Isochron Scepter, Laboratory Maniac, etc...) plus being a one-drop spell is super useful.
May 22, 2017 8:43 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #7
Pheardemons: Carpet of flowers is one of the most broken cards in cEDH. It is an auto-include if you play green in cEDH pods due to the high concentration of blue decks. With that being said, it is a situational card at most commander nights given that people are more focused on fun decks and there are far fewer decks that consistently follow up a turn 1 Tropical Island with a turn 2 Underground Sea.
costrander3689: Thanks Brother!
Grantley91: No Original duals (can get by with other dual lands); No grim tutor (Its the worst tutor in the deck); imperial seal would hurt ALOT more to lose but not many people can afford it. You could replace these with a high number of iffy tutors that would imbalance the deck some and make one of the combos a focal point. Eldritch Evolution, Summoner's Pact, Merchant Scroll, Shred Memory; Muddle the Mixture Drift of Phantasms, Fauna Shaman could all be justified but aren't ideal. You could also just add more interaction. Beyond that cutting Force of Will or a Mox Diamond could make sense.
enpc: Extract is a solid tutor. If I was making food chain the primary combo I would definitely include it, but it is my backup atm. If I focus more on it its definitely a solid include and a great focused hate piece to decks with a single point of failure.
May 22, 2017 11:30 p.m.
IronBlackZepp says... #8
A little concerned about a few things. Mabey you guys could clear them up.
Bloodghast is good for clamp, but not as reliable as fatestitcher because you need a land drop. I would think mabey running both would be better.
The other thing is that beast within or natural state seem perfect for the list because running plenty of removal seems necessary to succeed with this type of deck.
Let me know what you guys think, or if you think i am wrong.
May 24, 2017 5:52 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #9
IronBlackZepp: Thank you for the great questions. So in theory, Fatestitcher is better as a 3rd creature, but in practice it does not matter most of the time since we have a high creature concentration to ensure we get there. I actually just recorded the results from my last 100 goldfishes with the deck and the needed land mattered in 0 games and over 50 of my games were "won" with HD. On the other hand the upside of having a functionally useful creature in that slot you can repestedly recur into play for just a land has mattered in several of the games for both Skullclamp and Diabolic Intent. Havinf the ability flourish in slower games FAR outweighs the downside which has proven to be miniscule for this particular deck
Both beast within and natural state are solid includes, especially natural state, but we aim to be the hammer in most games and make others respond to us as opposed to interacting with others. I could see adding natural state in the right meta, but beast within is a bit too expensive for the types of decks this deck is designed to play against.
May 24, 2017 8:37 p.m.
DJYavimaya says... #10
On the note of Natural State, given that you probably don't care about opponents' life totals, wouldn't Nature's Claim just be better?
May 24, 2017 9:42 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #11
invigorate_berserk10: Thank you for the kind words. Natural state is certainly worse but in some metas having both is key.
May 24, 2017 10:12 p.m.
IronBlackZepp says... #12
I ask because my play group has a ton of hatebears. While I probably am the only one playing a tier 1 deck it can still be tough at times unless i win by turn 3, Which can happen about 40 to 50 percent of the time.
HD cannot go off if linvala is out, and funny enough, and although its not a strong deck, a friend of mine runs her. When she hits, it sucks for a deck like this. So how would you deal with a general that hates out your deck? Should I run some sideboard removal. Right now I am thinking pongify and rapid hybridization. They seem better then beast within for cost. Let me know your thoughts.
May 25, 2017 2:08 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #13
We have an answer to any hoser general with plenty of ways to tutor for it in Gilded Drake so that would be my first go to answer since it is better than removal in that they lose access to thier commander until they spend mana and a card to kill thier own general.
With that being said, pongify and rapid hybridization are strong options that double as a cheap way to kill hulk. I would slot in either in place of daze. With those two options plus chain of vapor you should have more than enough ways to clear away problematic creatures. Or you could just tainted pact and labman to get around linvala completely
May 25, 2017 3 p.m.
IronBlackZepp says... #14
Ok thanks. I will try them out then! I didn't even think about them as hulk combo peices so that is a plus too.
May 25, 2017 3:07 p.m.
DJYavimaya says... #15
What are your thoughts on potentially including Breakfast combo in a Sidisi Hulk deck? Go get Cephalid Illusionist and Trinket Mage, Mage finds Shuko, mill your deck and go for Labman or Nooze kill
June 13, 2017 9:37 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #16
invigorate_berserk10: While that is a neat pile its a bit too bulky for this list and sorcery speed. The reason breakfast combo is so good is that it has extra cc to deal with hate pieces and stop interaction. This version requires Blood Pet to be "free" and has no real advantages over the HD piles. The only card I would want in my list would be trinket mage. If we had a good instant speed pile (no mike ballista, delver, sac outlet nonsense) I would definitely give it a try.
June 16, 2017 8:31 p.m.
DJYavimaya says... #17
Thanks! I have the two pieces from when I first started to shift the deck to be competitive and just wanted another opinion on its viability given that hulk can lead to assembling it. I figured the lack of protection and sorcery speed were pretty significant cons while the only pro is that you can play it without needing white. Guess that's just one of the pains we have to deal with by not being Thrasios/Tymna players lol
June 17, 2017 12:52 a.m.
Lilbrudder says... #19
Treasured find is ok, but regrowth is much better and I dont really have the room for either card in this current build given how many slots are needed to make the combos function properly.
June 25, 2017 7:33 a.m.
benjameenbear7 says... #22
Glad to see another streamlined BUG deck join the cEDH fold. I really like this list a lot. Map props to the person who found the Flash-Hulk win package! That is very elegant and precisely executed. Love it.
July 7, 2017 2:18 p.m.
Lilbrudder says... #23
Thank you benjameenbear7 I am glad you like the list. monkeryz came up with that line and it is great.
July 8, 2017 12:02 a.m.
"the deck is far more streamlined and Ad Naus is a legitimate 1 card win condition."
How? Please explain how this works? :)
August 12, 2017 10:56 a.m.
Lilbrudder says... #25
At opponents endstep cast ad naus draw 15-20 cards. On your turn untap and use those cards (fast mana, tutors, combo pieces, protection) to win. If you have extra floating mana you can win during your main phase off ad naus in the same way as FC and flaah Hulk are efficient win conditions
Pheardemons says... #1
Carpet of flowers seems somewhat situational. Has it proved to be enough in testing?
Also, why Blighted Bat?
May 21, 2017 10:12 p.m.