Change Log 06-Feb-2023
Move to Maybe Board:
Move to Main Board:
February 6, 2023 10:57 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #3
Glad you're finding what works for you, Michigone. Ultimately your enjoyment & playstyle matter more than what any internet stranger suggests lol. I fully recognize that my approach & play style for Isshin is more lean & low to the ground than some others, so my suggestions won't always line up with others' preferences.
All that being said, if you have the budget and interest for it, Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip offers some cool 3 card in 1 variety/card economy. I recently added it (back) into the deck & have enjoyed how it plays.
February 6, 2023 11:13 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #4
Michigone, I just caught a misconception you might have between Myrel, Shield of Argive and Sigiled Sword of Valeron. Yes, Sigiled Sword makes the equipped creature a Knight and makes Knight tokens, but Myrel's token creation ability checks for the number of Soldier creatures you control.
I will say though that Myrel can balloon in token production if she sticks around long enough. Let's say with Isshin out and she swings for the first time as the only Soldier on board:
- Trigger 1 - Myrel is only soldier, so she makes 1 token
- Trigger 2 - Myrel & token are on board, so she makes 2 tokens, now giving you a total of 4 Soldiers for next swing (hopefully).
Myrel doesn't need much investment in a Soldier subtheme to really balloon her production. You already have 5 Soldiers in main board, and Hero of Bladehold also makes Soldier tokens.
All that being said, Sigiled Sword can still be fun to play, as the Vigilance Knights can help dissuade crack back. Although it doesn't have the synergy you envisioned it can still have a place in deck until you decide otherwise.
February 8, 2023 12:40 a.m.
Crow-Umbra, you're right! I didn't catch that. For some reason I thought Myrel, Shield of Argive cared about Knights... Weird. Anyway, maybe per your above recommendation I switch in Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip. Would give me more ramp, and token production, and a little bit of looting. I'll definitely move Fable into the maybe board. I want to get a few more games in before Sigiled Sword gets the axe, as the vigilant tokens help with chump blocking and swinging for things that care. But you're right that the synergy I envisioned is not quite there. If I do cut Sigiled Sword, my thoughts for adds are Esper Sentinel, Read the Bones, Authority of the Consuls, and Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip. What are your thoughts on those? Thanks for all the feedback and help!
February 8, 2023 12:12 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #6
No worries, it happens! Myrel herself does kind of look more like a knight than a soldier, so I can see the potential for confusion.
In terms of the other stuff you're considering:
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Authority of the Consuls - I run it in my deck and have really liked it, especially since I frequently play against other token and aggro strategies. Especially helpful for hampering Haste. Being able to keep other token and strategies off kilter to out-pace them can be crucial, and the bonus lifegain can help build some cushion against eventual crack backs. One of the best games I had with it, I got up to about 55 life before someone had the removal to deal with it.
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Esper Sentinel - Great draw option for White, there's no doubt about it. I used to play a copy in my old Osgir, the Reconstructor deck before I took it apart. I liked Esper Sentinel there because I had the potential to make copies of it with Osgir, and get a bit more mileage out of it. In my experiences playing Esper Sentinel, or playing across from it, I've found that it's most effective in early turns when players are less likely or capable to pay the tax. I think the tax effect becomes less effective as the game goes on, or without the Power/Toughness boosts to increase the tax and Sentinel's durability. The biggest downsides to Sentinel is that it is very vulnerable to creature and artifact based removal, so it is somewhat fragile as a draw piece. If anything, it ends up being a minor tax effect in early game to slow roll opponents.
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Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip - I've really liked it. It's essentially 3 cards in one. You're basically getting a slightly worse Captain Lannery Storm, a Faithless Looting, and a somewhat worse Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on the back. Even if you don't have some scary creature to copy initially, you could always copy the Goblin Shaman token (assuming it's still alive). I've liked it when I've played it. I think the capability of maximizing "card economy" whether through sagas or modal options is super helpful to squeeze more value out of those precious 99 slots.
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Read the Bones - Scry 2, draw 2 is solid but not super exciting. I like Painful Truths and Gruesome Realization, which you already have in 99. Professional Face-Breaker is also a solid option for aggro combat-oriented decks, since ideally you will be connecting with a wide enough board. Treasures and options to impulse can be helpful. It's like a budget pseudo-Tymna the Weaver
February 8, 2023 1 p.m.
Okay, first updates incoming since I finally got the chance to play the deck multiplayer, and it's a big change for the deck. Even to the point of moving around the manabase a bit. Had some fun games, realized the deck needed some adjusting to work in a multiplayer format, since it's been primarily play tested 1v1. Had a really great exchange with Crow-Umbra about the philosophy of aggro, and how to make card draw happen in Mardu. As always, big thanks to them for all their help and feedback.
The deck needed more card draw. And it was a little heavy on removal. In these changes, my creature count dropped to 24, which is a little low for my comfort, but I'm going to do a lot of playtesting to see which new additions I can cut to add back in a few creatures. Also, board wipes are a necessity in MtG, but I was a little heavy on them (part of my removal problem). I want to get back to 26 creatures at the least, so any feedback on the recent additions is greatly appreciated.
February 12, 2023 4:47 p.m.
Change Log 12-Feb-2023
Move to Maybe Board:
- Ardoz, Cobbler of War
- Toxic Deluge
- Sigiled Sword of Valeron
- Karlach, Fury of Avernus
- Skyknight Vanguard
- Ankle Shanker
- Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
- Despark
- Chaos Warp
- 1 Mountain
- Talisman of Indulgence
Add/Move to Main Board:
February 12, 2023 4:49 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #9
Happy to help! I saw your questions on my wall this morning and immediately sat at my laptop to get my thoughts down.
I think you're on the right track with the changes you're making. In looking at your list, there are a few more cards that I think deserve a little more "food for thought" reexamination. These aren't bad cards by any means, but are maybe ones that don't fit as cleanly or synergistically as one might want, or offer a bit too much redundancy:
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Thorough Investigation - The dungeon value can be helpful. I think it depends on which dungeon you will primarily be venturing into. I'm not the biggest fan of clue tokens for drawing, but that's a personal preference of mine, at least not for Isshin.
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Whispersilk Cloak - A cool protection equipment for sure. I think could be a bit better suited in a more dedicated Voltron list, or deck that is much more focused on its commander sticking around. I think Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots achieve the protection and haste that the deck needs more than the unblockable element.
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Anointed Procession - Mostly saying this since you already have Mondrak, Glory Dominus in main board. Some redundancy is nice, but are 2 token doubling effects really needed? Isshin doubles your token generating triggers from attacks, and Anointed or Mondrak are just some additional fuel to that fire. I personally give a bit of edge in keeping Mondrak over Anointed, primarily because Mondrak can protect itself and chump block or attack well, and it's a creature that Delina, Wild Mage can copy...
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Cathars' Crusade - I like this a bit more for decks that are more focused on utilizing the +1/+1 counter element to a fuller extent. If you have had success with it in this deck and like it, then absolutely disregard this suggestion.
I think you could stand to add 2-3 more lands back, especially since your average cmc is closer to 3. Lastly, I'd say check out Professional Face-Breaker, as she rewards you for going wide. She offers some options for either using the treasure generated for additional acceleration, or to help dig for cards. I've liked her when I've had the chance to play her in a couple different decks.
Ultimately, ask yourself what is most fun for you, and what gives you most joy when you play the deck? What can help you achieve that joy most consistently, even if the deck doesn't win games super consistently.
February 12, 2023 5:22 p.m.
Okay, trying out the changes suggested above by Crow-Umbra. Also, I'm on the fence about switching out Cathars' Crusade. I really like it and when it works, it hits like a truck. But to your point, if I draw it or it's in my opening hand, I'm always bothered by how slow it is to get everything online in order for it to really put in some work. Because the way the turns work is inevitably turn three Isshin (Or something else that I want to double attack triggers on next turn), turn 4 some piece of protection or Isshin in order to double the card from turn 3, then turn 5 another attack trigger piece or more likely some piece of removal as my opponents boards begin to come online, then turn 6 is when I'm probably finally resolving Cathars' Crusade if I don't have to spot remove something or I don't have a piece that gets card draw online, so then it's on to turn 7, and that seems like a long time to keep a card in hand in order for it to possibly make an impact.
February 12, 2023 9:06 p.m.
Change Log 12-Feb-2023
Move to Maybe Board:
Add/Move to Main Board:
February 12, 2023 9:12 p.m.
Okay, it's been a few days since the last few changes, and the deck has really started to coalesce into a fun, competitive, swinging, aggressive deck. I love how it just pops off out of nowhere sometimes. I got another chance to play in a multiplayer pod a few days ago and I went 5-0! Felt great! I really appreciate Crow-Umbra for the philosophical discussions surrounding playing Isshin. After taking their suggestions and cutting some removal and board wipes, and putting in more protection, the games were much quicker and I didn't feel like the removal police. I only removed any piece that was absolutely necessary for me to accomplish my game plan, and let people just play the game more in general.
After going back and forth on some 1v1 playtesting, I've decided to cut Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Flip. I like it, but Lannery is a little better, Looting is good, but I often like the cards I have and have not found myself too often using it's second chapter, and then the back side is a worse Kiki, which is still strong, but my deck is very Legendary creature heavy, and therefore it also falls flat with some regularity. I will totally give it a re-evaluation in a week or two, but Hammers of Moradin feels much more impactful. I know that I denigrated myriad for a while, and I'm still not in love with it, but if I can tap two creatures per opponent, for a possible six total creatures on an attack, that is often what I need to get through with a few attackers that I want to keep safe but still need to attack with in order to abuse their triggers. So that is the change for now. I also realized that I pulled a Den of the Bugbear when some friends and I did a sealed event using Collectors Bundles of AFR when it released last summer. That card fits really well in this deck, for obvious attack trigger reasons, and it was just sitting in my non-basic land box! Finally, with Den replacing a mountain, I was down to two basic mountains in the deck, and that felt a little low in some playtests, so I added one mountain back in and cut one swamp, going to three mountains, two swamps, and five plains.
February 17, 2023 12:47 a.m.
Change Log 17-Feb-2023
Move to Maybe Board:
Add/Move to Main Board:
February 17, 2023 12:53 a.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #14
Hammers of Moradin is such a great card for Isshin. Easily one of my favorite turn 3 plays to start swinging away on turn 4, wish Isshin out.
Congratulations on the 5-0! Sounds like you're truly becoming a menace, & swaps are starting to work out. The deck is super fun once you get a feel for how to pace out the deck, & how your removal & protection keep you going.
I'm interested in how it continues to evolve for you.
February 17, 2023 1:29 a.m.
Okay, I've had two cuts that have been on my mind. I finally played a game where I used Pact Weapon, and it was certainly... impactful! ;) Okay, that was some terrible word play, I truly apologize. In all seriousness, I've always been a little iffy on the card, as it can be a steep price to pay for card draw, and the game where I used it felt like that theory was correct. I was able to draw 4 cards in one turn off a Karlach, Fury of Avernus + Isshin + Pact Weapon combo, but ended up paying 11 life for it. And Pact was equipped on Isshin, which made him a 14/15 on the second combat swing, but he was chump blocked both combats. It took me down to 11 life, and all an opponent needs to do is remove it and I could be dead or very close to it. So the change I made to the deck was to put in Tome of Legends to replace Pact Weapon. Along those lines, Crow-Umbra has always recommended Tocasia's Welcome and that card is short listed for the same spot too. Keeping in the card draw discussion, I also cut Professional Face-Breaker for Battle Angels of Tyr, which I pulled back in CLB when I drafted with friends, but I'm much less confident about that cut, and would love anyone's opinion/input on why I should put Face-Breaker back in the deck. I don't love Battle Angels because it is a fantastic card for "catching up", but not really for pulling ahead in any metric except perhaps life total, and it doesn't trigger if I don't connect. Anyway, change log is below, but I'm very open to suggestions/walking back some of these changes.
February 22, 2023 2:16 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #16
Tome of Legends was a cool draw piece that I used for a while in earlier versions of the deck. I think it rarely ate removal because of its pacing & required set up. I forget what I cut it for lol.
Battle Angels of Tyr is gas as a catch up card, and that's usually when I use it. Even at baseline, being able to send a couple of 4/4 flyers at 2 players is fine enough. Unless your meta has a lot of Flying and Reach, it should be able to connect most of the time, assuming it doesn't eat removal before it swings.
I'm kind of surprised you still have Cathars' Crusade still in the 99, since a few comments/updates back, it seemed like you were about to cut it after walking through the likely pacing/play pattern for it.
February 22, 2023 2:27 p.m.
After not even one playtest, and a few chats, and bowing to the wisdom of others (plainsrunner, Crow-Umbra, NAT0), I decided to cut out Tome of Legends and put back in Professional Face-Breaker. I don't have trouble connecting with multiple players, and it's both ramp and draw. And with Tome, I know that it's an attack trigger, but I have to use my commander to get it to go, and I don't always want to be swinging Isshin in. Also, in what has to be one the greatest light bulb moments/bonehead moves of my life, I realized why people run myriad in Isshin. IT'S AN ATTACK TRIGGER! Duh Michigone, geez. Can't believe I didn't realize that. I was so focused on the tokens not getting the attack triggers that I forgot that myriad itself in an attack trigger. I have only been putting out three tokens this entire time, not 6. Well, Battle Angels of Tyr just went from a good card to a great card in this deck. I mean, getting to do all the triggers from it would be great, no doubt. But ALSO swinging 8 in the air at people? Yes please!
Also, to answer your query Crow-Umbra, I keep finding Cathars' Crusade to be so good with everything when I playtest with groups that don't play so much removal. It just turns my board state into a beast. Especially with something like Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin. Or any token producer really. But it is a lodestone for removal, I will give you that. And if I don't have a way to make tokens, it sometimes just sits on my board and does nothing, which isn't as great. So I don't want to cut it (it's kinda a pet card), but I'm sure something better will come along. At some point. Maybe. ;)
February 23, 2023 1:49 a.m.
Change Log 23-Feb-2023
Move to Maybe Board:
Move to Main Board/Add:
February 23, 2023 1:52 a.m.
Edit: I just remembered that in the case of myriad, I'll be putting out 4 tokens instead of the 6 I thought. Don't worry, I'll get it one of these days. Still a huge difference.
February 23, 2023 2 a.m.
Hey Crow-Umbra, thoughts on Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant Flip vs. Dolmen Gate? I've had Rune-Tail in my Heliod, Sun-Crowned deck for a while, and just realized it might be a nice fit in Isshin. The only downside is if I draw it after I have less than 30 life and don't have any good lifegain on board it's a dead draw. But I have a few ways to gain life, and I was already thinking of switching out a single plains with Witch's Clinic and seeing if there were other small changes I could make that don't change the deck comp while adding more instances of lifegain. Thoughts?
February 23, 2023 4:36 p.m.
And actually to your point earlier, maybe I switch Cathars' Crusade out for Authority of the Consuls.
February 23, 2023 4:44 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #22
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant Flip is definitely an interesting pick and offers a broadened suite of protection. If I'm counting correctly, it looks like you have about 5 effects in deck right now that gain you life, Witch's Clinic would put you at about 6?
Could be worth at least one try in a game, but I don't know if the extra hoops to jump through are necessarily worth it. Dolmen Gate is reliable, is 1 mana less, and is colorless. Idk, I'm just thinking of scenarios where you draw Rune-Tail in games where you are significantly below 30 life, and don't draw into the 5% of your deck that would help you maybe get back over 30.
Even then, I feel like if you removed Tome of Legends because you didn't want Isshin to have to wade into combat to "recharge" it, then Witch's Clinic falls into similar territory, where you have to risk Isshin attacking or blocking to get at least 3 life, barring any other P/T boosts.
February 23, 2023 4:55 p.m.
In the interest of squashing the curve, and with the purpose of getting more consistent card draw without table interaction, which inevitably draws attention to the piece and attention to myself, I'm testing out the deck with Phyrexian Arena in for Esper Sentinel and Authority of the Consuls in for Cathars' Crusade. My concern is that Crusade is a wincon, which I am cutting for lifegain, but as noted in earlier posts and in discussions with Crow-Umbra, resolving it takes a long time, and trying to set it up is often an exercise in futility as it is a lode-stone for removal. With Authority, I gain some small amount of lifegain, enough to keep me at the table longer, and I gain the added combat utility of having potential blockers on my opponent's boards entering tapped, allowing me to get more swings in. Feels like a little more control/stax, which I am not opposed to.
February 27, 2023 10:07 p.m.
Change Log 27-Feb-2023
Move to Maybe Board:
Move to Main Board/Add:
February 27, 2023 10:10 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #25
Those look like some solid swaps. Authority of the Consuls was gas for me each time I've played it. Definitely helpful when playing against other aggro strats to keep them off rhythm.
Michigone says... #1
Decided to make the switch off of Helm of the Host already. After Crow-Umbra's post, chatting with iceberg_slim and playtesting it out, the restrictive mana cost of Helm would warp the deck around trying to get it out. In a deck whose curve tops out at six and wants to be aggro AND is in Mardu, it's a two turn artifact, and it's a massive target. While it would be great to see it resolve, and the redundancy (making multiple Isshin's with both Delina, Wild Mage and Helm) is something that I try to build into most of my decks, it would live better in an equipment matters deck that could cheat it out or equip it for free. So with that reasoning in mind, I'm going to try out Sigiled Sword of Valeron in its stead. It gives me a small amount of vigilance, creates tokens, those tokens have vigilance, and those tokens are knights which synergize with Myrel. Crow-Umbra pointed out that it is essentially a worse Inquisitorial Rosette (1 extra mana, and no anthem for my creatures). I agree with them, but I think my playstyle leans a little more towards tokens and equipment, so we'll see how having both in my deck works.
February 6, 2023 10:54 p.m.