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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
(X): Put X tower counters on Helix Pinnacle.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are 100 or more tower counters on Helix Pinnacle, you win the game.
2 months ago
I have procured a foil Helix Pinnacle that I would like to slot in, but I wouldn't know what to take out for it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :-)
8 months ago
I should probably also specify that my only complaint with Gelatinous Genesis in an infinite mana deck is that, without Haste, you still leave yourself vulnerable to any multitude of Boardwipe effects (which are just so common now it's silly almost) plus stuff like Legion's End, Declaration in Stone, and spells along that line as well.
The only reason Helix Pinnacle makes the cut for me despite not winning that SAME turn is that it has Shroud making it almost impossible to do anything about. This method also allows you to save any attackers for blocking until your Turn comes back around, and stops anything like Settle the Wreckage from hampering your win plans. I've found boardwipe (or specific creaturewipe) cards to be the main vulnerability with my elf build, so structuring your strategy to have "outs" for these should the need arise is what really ramped up the reliability of winning game after game for me. If your opponent can just toss 1 card from a Sideboard into their build and shut you down, then it's not reliable (at least to my standards) in most cases.
Elves have so many different ways that they can win, that it makes sense to build a deck up with multiple win conditions to provide you with options. There's just too many "good" Elf selections available for there to be one "End All - Be All" build. The best you can hope for is to include some curveballs for the deck's most common major threats.
8 months ago
Overall, I like it! Few observations:
My personal experience with Elf builds (particularly in Legacy format) is that nowadays there a SO many decent elves to choose from that no "one build" really has it all, and a deck's viability tends to depend a lot on the playgroup it's being used with.
Anymore, the "infinite combo" approach with Staff of Domination takes FAR too long to set up in my opinion (plus, artifact destruction isn't nearly as 'niche' as it used to be), and you can easily (and more quickly) win the game without it. (I actually removed the one Staff of Domination I own from my elf deck as it kept winning before it could really get moving). I can see it still being viable in, say, Commander format -- but nowadays there are SO many ways to deal with an artifact threat, that I don't feel it's anywhere NEAR as strong as it used to be (let's remember after all, 20 or so damage is all you're really looking to achieve in a lot of games). Bottom line, you're eating up 8 card slots in order to pull off an infinite combo, so unless that's your ONLY win condition (which here, it is not) I personally find it to be a waste.
So you don't think I'm just being negative, one possible thing to add which might help with this would be to swap your 4x Snakeskin Veil for 4x Tamiyo's Safekeeping. True it doesn't add a counter, but Tamiyo's Indestructible effect will: A) Protect a creature from a Boardwipe effect (which mere Hexproof won't do), and also B) Can be used to target ANY permanent, not just a creature (so, perhaps saving your Staff of Domination or Umbral Mantle from some artifact hate). This would help ensure that you are in fact getting that combo off when you happen to have the cards (no tutoring effects either makes pulling it off especially difficult game after game).
Another thing I see right off the bat is how many "tap for mana" elves you have. I don't see Umbral Mantle being valuable here except for your 'infinite combo staff maneuver'. Me personally, I favor things like Vitalize, because it'll hit everything you've got rather than just one creature, and I would also add in some form of Card Draw -- because all the mana in the world won't help you with an empty hand if your opponent has board control.
Again, if the infinite Staff combo is REALLY something you're sold on, then yeah maybe keep the Umbral Mantle, but it's such an old combo now that I find it far too easy for opponents to disrupt in one way or another. I also don't see any X-cost stuff in here (except for the Gelatinous Genesis copies, which I'd drop for something better honestly) -- X-cost stuff is really what makes the Infinite Staff combo shine in my opinion. If you're going that route you'd want Helix Pinnacle (for a next-turn win with Infinite Mana), Tribal Unity (should you want to do a big Elf Attack with all that mana, Stream of Life (if you're doing a teams game and want to heal your teammate) -- stuff like that, to really put down a power play when you finally hit infinite mana. In any case, if you end up wanting to stick with the Staff, put some more X-cost stuff in so that "infinite mana" is more than just a novelty and can essentially end the game for you.
I appreciate the vote of confidence in my elf builds, so I'll assume you've already seen my Legacy Elf build -- but here's a link again in case you want to review some more options. It's basically a deck that COULD have gone infinite mana, but didn't because it genuinely doesn't need it to win. The Card Draw just gets nuts, and I've regularly had turns where I'm playing out 4 or 5 Elves.
See my Elf Build: Tae'rin Terror (Elf Zerg) for more thoughts/suggestions along this line.
You've clearly got some seriously solid cards going on here now though, so any critique anyone can offer isn't really going to be along the lines of "This is just outright bad" and more of "This is slightly more efficient and reliable". I wish you luck, and +1 on your build!
8 months ago
8 months ago
The only suggestion I could make would add a Doubling Cube and Doubling Season to really help with pouring mana into Helix Pinnacle. Only downside with the cube is you need 7 mana before you start seeing any benefit from it
9 months ago
Yeah, Staff of Domination is bonkers in Elves, and it's not all that pricey. Umbral Mantle can also offer infinite combo potential like Staff. Sword of the Paruns also works, You might try out Helix Pinnacle as an mana payoff, it's got Shroud and that much mana is nothing in Elves. Marwyn, the Nurturer is a good Elf to consider, she can get huge and generate pretty big mana. Elves are lots of fun, I play them in Legacy, where I'm still experimenting. Ezuri, Renegade Leader is a good mana outlet to have in Elves, while Joraga Warcaller is a somewhat worse one that can still win a game (no trample sucks).
9 months ago
Unless I'm missing something about how this deck is supposed to play, you're running way too many lands here. Your typical commander deck has probably between 34-40 lands. My Lord Windgrace landfall deck (in which the lands are extremely important) only runs 42. The upside of this fact though is that it takes away some of what is the most painful part of tweaking my decks: deciding what to cut. You need to cut a bunch of forests. Also, I'm not sure why you're running Mirror Gallery. It doesn't look like you're trying to copy any legendaries
You could probably consider swapping one of them out for Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. This is a great mono-colored commander land.
Getting a bunch of extra land drops in a turn is great with stuff like Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Exploration, but unless you're able to draw extra cards to replace those lands, you're just gonna wind up with an empty hand and hoping for something good from your top deck. Cultivator Colossus is a great way to dump some lands onto the battlefield and keep your hand full in doing so.
Cultivate is a great way to dig some lands out of your library, and there's other good spells that do similar things. Harrow, Kodama's Reach, Three Visits, and Nature's Lore among others can help you ramp up and thin lands out of your library. You may want to include some more of these types of spells.
Personally, I like to include some redundant effects along with my commander. Omnath can help you pile up mana, sure, but you'll lose it all if he gets zapped. Horizon Stone can help hedge your bets in case something happens to your commander.
There's lots of Nissa planeswalkers that interact nicely with your lands, most notably Nissa, Who Shakes the World. You should definitely look into some of those.
Lastly, given what Omnath can do and since you're clearly looking to produce absurd amounts of mana, it kinda looks like you're lacking a real payoff for all that production/retention. You need some outlets into which to sink all that mana so that you can close out the game. Finale of Devastation is a pretty popular one in these types of decks. You might also want to consider Helix Pinnacle as a surprise alternate win-con if you're sitting on a pile of 100 or more mana. Not to mention, being mono-green, there's tons of enormous and expensive creatures with devastating effects (I'm looking at you, Craterhoof Behemoth) you can run as well.
I hope this is helpful, I'd say you've probably got about 20 slots to replace forests with stuff that's more fun than basic lands. You say this is your first EDH deck, so in case you were unaware, EDHREC is a great resource for ideas while brewing your decks. Good luck!
10 months ago
Profet93, again, thanks for the suggestions, they're super helpful!
I definitely agree I should cut Helix Pinnacle, but it's a massive pet card of mine. It's only won me 1 game ever, but I can't bring myself to cut it. That being said, I might playtest Glimpse of Nature instead of it, because it will 100% function better. I also might try Umbral Mantle too, because that might be even more consistent than Glimpse of Nature, if a bit less versatile.
Staff of Domination does go infinite with priest, marwyn, etc. which is why I keep it in. It does require a fair bit of mana (3 to cast, 3 to activate), but I've found it wins me the game on a successful resolve, with either Ezuri's second ability or drawing into craterhoof.
The single fetch in this deck is exclusively to flex on one of my friends who plays simic. We opened MH2 packs together and I pulled the Misty Rainforest, so I have it in there basically just to show off. I also like to tell myself it thins the deck out so I draw into more useful cards, but I should probably playtest something else, maybe a Castle Garenbrig or something. Strip Mine isn't super helpful in my meta as my playgroup doesn't run a huge amount of worrisome lands. I might try it anyways though.