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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Create X X/X green Ooze creature tokens.
4 weeks ago
I should probably also specify that my only complaint with Gelatinous Genesis in an infinite mana deck is that, without Haste, you still leave yourself vulnerable to any multitude of Boardwipe effects (which are just so common now it's silly almost) plus stuff like Legion's End, Declaration in Stone, and spells along that line as well.
The only reason Helix Pinnacle makes the cut for me despite not winning that SAME turn is that it has Shroud making it almost impossible to do anything about. This method also allows you to save any attackers for blocking until your Turn comes back around, and stops anything like Settle the Wreckage from hampering your win plans. I've found boardwipe (or specific creaturewipe) cards to be the main vulnerability with my elf build, so structuring your strategy to have "outs" for these should the need arise is what really ramped up the reliability of winning game after game for me. If your opponent can just toss 1 card from a Sideboard into their build and shut you down, then it's not reliable (at least to my standards) in most cases.
Elves have so many different ways that they can win, that it makes sense to build a deck up with multiple win conditions to provide you with options. There's just too many "good" Elf selections available for there to be one "End All - Be All" build. The best you can hope for is to include some curveballs for the deck's most common major threats.
4 weeks ago
Overall, I like it! Few observations:
My personal experience with Elf builds (particularly in Legacy format) is that nowadays there a SO many decent elves to choose from that no "one build" really has it all, and a deck's viability tends to depend a lot on the playgroup it's being used with.
Anymore, the "infinite combo" approach with Staff of Domination takes FAR too long to set up in my opinion (plus, artifact destruction isn't nearly as 'niche' as it used to be), and you can easily (and more quickly) win the game without it. (I actually removed the one Staff of Domination I own from my elf deck as it kept winning before it could really get moving). I can see it still being viable in, say, Commander format -- but nowadays there are SO many ways to deal with an artifact threat, that I don't feel it's anywhere NEAR as strong as it used to be (let's remember after all, 20 or so damage is all you're really looking to achieve in a lot of games). Bottom line, you're eating up 8 card slots in order to pull off an infinite combo, so unless that's your ONLY win condition (which here, it is not) I personally find it to be a waste.
So you don't think I'm just being negative, one possible thing to add which might help with this would be to swap your 4x Snakeskin Veil for 4x Tamiyo's Safekeeping. True it doesn't add a counter, but Tamiyo's Indestructible effect will: A) Protect a creature from a Boardwipe effect (which mere Hexproof won't do), and also B) Can be used to target ANY permanent, not just a creature (so, perhaps saving your Staff of Domination or Umbral Mantle from some artifact hate). This would help ensure that you are in fact getting that combo off when you happen to have the cards (no tutoring effects either makes pulling it off especially difficult game after game).
Another thing I see right off the bat is how many "tap for mana" elves you have. I don't see Umbral Mantle being valuable here except for your 'infinite combo staff maneuver'. Me personally, I favor things like Vitalize, because it'll hit everything you've got rather than just one creature, and I would also add in some form of Card Draw -- because all the mana in the world won't help you with an empty hand if your opponent has board control.
Again, if the infinite Staff combo is REALLY something you're sold on, then yeah maybe keep the Umbral Mantle, but it's such an old combo now that I find it far too easy for opponents to disrupt in one way or another. I also don't see any X-cost stuff in here (except for the Gelatinous Genesis copies, which I'd drop for something better honestly) -- X-cost stuff is really what makes the Infinite Staff combo shine in my opinion. If you're going that route you'd want Helix Pinnacle (for a next-turn win with Infinite Mana), Tribal Unity (should you want to do a big Elf Attack with all that mana, Stream of Life (if you're doing a teams game and want to heal your teammate) -- stuff like that, to really put down a power play when you finally hit infinite mana. In any case, if you end up wanting to stick with the Staff, put some more X-cost stuff in so that "infinite mana" is more than just a novelty and can essentially end the game for you.
I appreciate the vote of confidence in my elf builds, so I'll assume you've already seen my Legacy Elf build -- but here's a link again in case you want to review some more options. It's basically a deck that COULD have gone infinite mana, but didn't because it genuinely doesn't need it to win. The Card Draw just gets nuts, and I've regularly had turns where I'm playing out 4 or 5 Elves.
See my Elf Build: Tae'rin Terror (Elf Zerg) for more thoughts/suggestions along this line.
You've clearly got some seriously solid cards going on here now though, so any critique anyone can offer isn't really going to be along the lines of "This is just outright bad" and more of "This is slightly more efficient and reliable". I wish you luck, and +1 on your build!
3 months ago
Thanks for commenting, Lord_of_Cardboard!
This deck would do exceptionally well against a Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger deck. This is for the same reason that cards like Jace's Archivist do so well in the deck: if you have have Muldrotha on the battlefield, any cards you discard might as well still be in your hand cause you can simply replay them from your graveyard. If anything, an opposing Kroxa player is almost helping you by disrupting your other opponents' hands.
As for a budget version of the deck, here's some advice on budget options and replacements. Just note that this is advice specific to my Muldrotha deck, i.e., advice for the big mana and big X-spell strategy. If you'd rather play a more typical creature-based, swing-to-kill type deck, there may be better Muldrotha lists to look at.
The mana base makes up a large portion of the deck's budget, and I would leave that mostly up to your own discretion. Just keep in mind that fetch lands like Evolving Wilds and slow fetches like Bad River are good for being replayed every turn with Muldrotha. Also, for a budget version of the deck, it's important to run more basics than I do since you'll probably need to fetch more with your ramp. Cycle lands like Lonely Sandbar, Tranquil Thicket, and Barren Moor are fantastic, especially with Life from the Loam. Some other good options:
Which brings me to another point: if I had to pick one somewhat expensive card that's worth putting in a budget Muldrotha deck, it's this one. It's a one-card value engine, giving you card draw, mill, and lands. And depending on what utility lands you choose to run, it can do a whole lot more. And if you're worried about Kroxa in your meta, Life from the Loam is a great counter to it, allowing you to fill your hand with lands to discard.
Now to address key cards for the deck's "big mana" strategy. Important cards for generating a lot of mana include Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Coffers, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, Crypt Ghast, and Nyxbloom Ancient. You could just replace these cards with normal ramp; casting X-spells for X=10 is still good and easy to accomplish without these cards. If that's unsatisfying for you, you could consider options like Zendikar Resurgent and Mana Reflection. Unfortunately there aren't many great cheap options for producing a lot of mana. This is an important part of the deck though, so it's up to you if it's worth spending some extra money on it.
To avoid this comment being any more lengthy than it already is, here's an extensive list of some budget alternatives for the deck. The great thing about Muldrotha is that being able to replay removal makes a lot of sub-par removal actually pretty good, so it's pretty budget friendly.
Win-Conditions: What's in the deck isn't too expensive, but here's some cheaper options.
- Mass Manipulation
- Gelatinous Genesis
- Mind Grind
- Hydra Broodmaster
- Other hydras (there's lots of them)
- Plaguecrafter / Demon's Disciple
- Seal of Doom / Shriekmaw / Executioner's Capsule
- Night Incarnate
- Outland Liberator Flip
- Thrashing Brontodon
- Kenrith's Transformation / Frogify / Kasmina's Transmutation
- Vraska the Unseen / Ob Nixilis Reignited
- Sidisi's Faithful
Draw / Mill:
- Vessel of Nascency
- Satyr Wayfinder
- Tatyova, Benthic Druid
- Mirror-Mad Phantasm
- Dreamborn Muse
- River Kelpie
- Witching Well
- Courier's Capsule
- Omen of the Sea
- Fact or Fiction
- Forgotten Creation
- Kiora, Master of the Depths
- Springbloom Druid
- Burnished Hart
- Dawntreader Elk
- Diligent Farmhand
- Kodama's Reach
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Font of Fertility
- Omen of the Hunt
- Yavimaya Elder
- Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Control and other good stuff:
- Zur's Weirding
- Siren Stormtamer
- Drown in the Loch
- Elephant Grass
- Scribe of the Mindful
- Malakir Rebirth Flip
- Raven's Crime
- Malevolent Hermit Flip
- Energy Flux
- Other counterspells
If you have any other questions about budget options, let me know. I'm always happy to help!
9 months ago
10 months ago
Thanks dum321, I appreciate the suggestions. I hadn't thought of Umbral Mantle but I have considered Staff of Domination because I could use it for a few different things. My small group tries to avoid things that could spoil the fun like infinite combos and stuff that stops each other from engaging with the game like counter heavy decks, except when we all agree to it. That is why I have Channel and Full Flowering and/or Gelatinous Genesis ready to slot in.
10 months ago
I can't believe you're keeping Gelatinous Genesis in the Maybeboard.
1 year ago
As a fellow Omnath player I have to give you props for running Gelatinous Genesis . Super underrated cards and so much fun!
1 year ago
SirPsychoSaxy Thank you! I'm honoured that you decided to build your deck around mine. The sole fact that keeps the Gelatinous Genesis here is that I haven't got the chance to try it yet haha, but thanks for the recommendation! :)