Creature — Vampire Wizard
, Discard a card: Transform Elusive Tormentor.
|Have (4)||metalmagic , DudeMan1031 , shmoofidoo , orzhov_is_relatively_okay819|
Printings View all
|Shadows over Innistrad (SOI)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Elusive Tormentor Discussion
1 week ago
Hey, two budget creatures who have hexproof you want to mutate too are Insidious Mist and Troll Ascetic. The hexproof is wanted because this protects the creature from targeted removal when being mutated and after it's mutated. In multiplayer Commander there's three or more opponents who will have potential removal for your mutated creature; without hexproof mutating is risky. Swiftfoot Boots can give any creature you control hexproof it's worth adding.
Mist is the back side of Elusive Tormentor Flip and once it flips then you don't ever have to flip it back. Hexproof, indestructible, unblockable, trample are monster stats for 6/6 Otrimi. The combination of hexproof and regenerate of Troll is powerful with mutate; protecting from targeted removal, from most board wipes/non targeted removal and in combat.
Good luck with your deck.
3 weeks ago
Thanks for the detailed suggestions! I initially did have all of those hexproof creatures in the deck, but through playtesting in my group I found that I would constantly be going for a more voltron style game and the purely hexproof bases didnt really give me much to work with offensively. With that, I trimmed down all those cheap hexproof only cards and was left only with Elusive Tormentor Flip, Slippery Bogbonder, and Swiftfoot Boots. If Swiftfoot Boots can stick, then all hexproof bases drawn are dead cards. The Bogbonder is definitely swappable since it's human, but giving Predator Ooze or Blight Mamba a hexproof counter and moving 6 counters from a tutored Polukranos in one play is pretty fun jank. That said, I will continue to test; I think there is a very good case to be made for the trolls especially.
I should also note that in around 7 games with this deck I have yet to cast Brokkos. Auspicious Starrix and Sawtusk Demolisher are easier to cast 6/6 trample mutates that give additional mutate effects and can be recurred with Otrimi's triggered ability. I may actually remove Brokkos if I don't get use out of him in my next few playtests.
1 month ago
Firstly. Thank you for your in depth and amazing comment, it's really helped me decide on some cards to add to this deck. I have a big problem with know what cards to remove, if you could help me decide on what to take out for what, that would be super helpful!
As for the hexproof creatures. They make a lot of sense, I really like Silhana Ledgewalker and Elusive Tormentor Flip as the ability to sort of be unblockable or literally be unblockable is amazing. Troll Ascetic is another amazing shout. These 3 are definite add's for this deck. I'm not too sure about Paradise Druid as being tapped to attack could spell an easy removal target depending on board states. Slippery Bogle and Gladecover Scout seem good, but only for the Hexproof. I may give them a try but I may not keep them in the finished product. However, thank you for bringing them to my attention!
I will definitely be obtaining another Wonder for this deck as that seems like a perfect addition. Mask of Memory seems really good for the card draw too, however the Discard clause tends to put me off. I'll definitely play test with it and see how it suits me though.
Boneyard Lurker is in the deck, Alt art too haha. Gemrazer is sadly a card I didn't manage to pull, so i've purchased one. Waiting on it to be delivered, it is an amazing card. Sea-Dasher Octopus was a card I wasn't too sure about adding to the deck, I'll swap it in for a higher cmc Mutate creature though, when I decide which haha.
Yeah, the Mana base needs heavy work, but I tend to leave that until a little later, I would happily accept some help into improving the Mana base! I'm never really sure of how to make a Mana base better personally.
Thank you so much! :)
1 month ago
Hey, you really want hexproof with the creatures you want to mutate too because this protects the creature from removal in response or after mutating. It's pretty risky to chain a bunch of mutate creatures into the pile if the pile doesn't have hexproof. Without hexproof a single Swords to Plowshares by opponent will ruin your game and exile all the creatures in the mutate pile except Otrimi.
Swiftfoot Boots is a helpful equipment with mutate because then any creature can have hexproof before you mutate and keep hexproof for as long as Boots is equipped. When you mutate a creature who's equipped with Boots, Boots will stay on the creature during mutation and after.
- Slippery Bogle
- Gladecover Scout
- Silhana Ledgewalker: if opponent doesn't have a flying creature then the mutated creature can't be blocked by that opponent.
- Paradise Druid: has hexproof as long as it's untapped, good to mutate too while also using it as ramp before you want to mutate.
- Troll Ascetic: also has regeneration which can protect the mutated creature from nontargeted removal that can destroy it such as a board wipe or from legal combat damage. Combination of hexproof and regeneration is powerful projection for the mutated creature.
- Elusive Tormentor Flip: for Insidious Mist, mutate Otrimi with Mist for 6/6 unblockable, hexproof, indestructible, trample that doesn't flip back unless you want it too.
Crystal Shard can be repeatable creature bounce for one blue mana of the mutate pile. This effect lets you mutate the entire pile again, protect all the creatures in the pile from being exiled or destroyed, change which creature is first mutated with Otrimi, etc. Buried Alive and Jarad's Orders can tutor for creature and put into your graveyard. This is good to setup your graveyard to recur a mutate creature when Otrimi does combat damage to an opponent.
Orders can do both, tutor for a creature to mutate too and a put a creature into your graveyard. If Otrimi is part of the mutate pile then the creature will have trample which can make Mask of Memory a repeatable draw two/discard mutate creature/recur mutate creature effect. Wonder is good when you can tutor for it or discard it because giving the mutated creature flying is better evasion than trample. Wonder is good with Buried as one of the three creatures you can tutor for and put into your graveyard.
There's a few of the better budget creatures with mutate that are missing here:
- Sea-Dasher Octopus: mutate at instant speed with flash and for only two mana it's the lowest mutate mana cost, can be another source of repeatable draw when mutated creature has evasion.
- Gemrazer: destroy an artifact or enchantment.
- Boneyard Lurker: recur any permanent.
One of the worst parts of the precon is the manabase, which is not good with 11x Forests and 2x Island ratio. If you would like help with improving the manabase then I offer help in another comment.
Good luck with your deck.
1 month ago
I tried creatures like Aetherling too. However i never liked mutating onto them for two reasons. First, they are way too expensive. I want my mutate targets to cost less than the mutate creature so that I play them first and maybe mutate immediatly afterwards. Since all the power and toughness expensive creatures like Aetherling prove are useless anyway. Second they dont really protect my mutate pile. Flickering or undying put all creatures back seperatly. I really do not like that. This is mostly the same as loosing the pile entirely. Having hexproof or indestructible on the mutate target is for much better since its completetly protected except for boardwipes when using hexproof.
You are only playing 9 Muatets creatures too. That seems to be too low for a mutate forcused deck. I would play atleast 15. You got enough mutate targets anyway so I would suggest cutting a few of those since these creature are worthless in multiples.
1 month ago
Digging the first pass of the deck I would try to go all-in on the infect theme and ditch some of the +1/+1 counter focused cards. Would make the deck feel a lot more consistent in games played.
I also see some cards that give brokkos some form of evasion, its worth noting that brokkos already has a pseudo-evasion like effect by naturally having trample, which deters people from blocking anyways, I feel that the additional evasion effects via creatures to mutate onto seems a bit extra.
I reccomend removing these:
- Merfolk Skydiver - +1/+1 theme, its nice for a 5 mana proliferation sink but I feel its too clunky
- Pollenbright Druid - A one time proliferate is likely too cute for this deck
- Polukranos, Unchained - +1/+1 counter themed, I see the argument for mutating onto a huge creature with +1/+1 counters, but polukranos also shrinks really quickly
- Elusive Tormentor Flip is a nice unblockable threat, but we're winning by going to bash town with infect damage, rather than an unblockable 6/7
- Silhana Ledgewalker Another pseudo-unblockable threat.
- Toothy, Imaginary Friend I likely would only play this card with Pir, Imaginative Rascal, seems very off theme from what you're trying to do aside from giving itself counters.
- Yeva, Nature's Herald This card only gives your green creatures flash, I dont think its really worth it... otherwise I would be super on board
- Blighted Agent is a human and you cannot mutate onto it. I'm not sure if you want to keep it in the deck as an extra infect threat, or go all in on the mutate plan.
- Relic Putrescence feels way too narrow just for giving its controller a single poison counter
- Simic Ascendancy Is a +1/+1 card that I dont see as a viable backup plan
- Leyline of Anticipation It's nice casting things at instant speed but that isnt really the theme of the deck, if folks have instant speed removal they will likely use it anyways and this wont get you many bonus points
- Golgari Charm What is this for? Removing 1/1s? Brokkos has trample and your infect creatures might have 1 toughness... regenerating brokkos? Just mutate again..
Cards I would consider adding:
- Rot Wolf
- Whispering Specter
- Plague Myr
- Blackcleave Goblin
- Triumph of the Hordes
- Blackblade Reforged
Since you're looking for more Destroy effects, Card draw effects, and counter effects, consider the following:
- Beast Within
- Vines of Vastwood
- Deadly Rollick
- Phyrexian Arena
- Painful Truths
- Arcane Denial
- Curtains' Call
There are a few different land ramp spells I may play, but those are likely out of budget. For the remainder of the cuts I reccomend taking out the worst infect creatures, and possibly some of your land ramp spells
2 months ago
@ Reznorboy Thanks for checking out my deck and giving me some suggestions. Honestly this is a very early draft of this deck and might change significantly once I am able to play test it.
As far as cheep hexproof creatures I am already running Gladecover Scout, Slippery Bogle, and Silhana Ledgewalker. With my searching of gatherer the only other cheep hexproof creatures I see that seem worth it that I have been considering are Elusive Tormentor Flip and Troll Ascetic. Am I missing something? What hexproof creatures would you recommend I add?
Furthermore what cheep counterspells would you recommend? I know the free counterspells. But I already have them for my cEDH deck and those are going to be expensive to pick up another copy of. I might pick up a second Pact of Negation for this deck down the road though.
What combo are you referring to with Raven's Crime? I don't think I've seen that card cast in EDH and I have been playing EDH for around 10 years. I always like combos I have never heard of before.
I don't think I'm running enough graveyard recursion / graveyard matters to make Life from the Loam good. Do you think I should be?
Honestly I am not worried about competitive players. I have Tymna the Weaver / Thrasios, Triton Hero cEDH built as well as a Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle built in a way that is high tier EDH but not quite cEDH. If other players want to play more competitively I have decks that can do that.
I might cut Propaganda down the road but Leyline of Anticipation lets you hold up counterspells on opponents turns and then cast stuff on their end step if they don't do anything you need to interact with. I fail to see how Leyline of Anticipation is a pillow-fort type card. However I have been considering Seedborn Muse to take advantage of flash.
3 months ago
Yeva, Nature's Herald and Vivien, Champion of the Wilds allow you to mutate at instant speed, with Kaseto, Orochi Archmage you can win with commander damage, Lazav, the Multifarious can do some nasty tricks with your graveyard, Glissa, the Traitor with trample is a real pain, Elusive Tormentor Flip can be a solid target to mutate on. Hope this can help :)