How do I deal with Narset, Enlightened Master EDH decks?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on March 28, 2015, 10:31 p.m. by Herrschlafanzug
I have been having trouble playing against Narset, Enlightened Master EDH decks. Spot removal is useless and as soon as Narset swings it's game over. With the new rule allowing players to put there commander in the command zone instead of shuffling it in their library, how can I deal with her?
Herrschlafanzug says... #3
I have Teysa, Orzhov Scion EDH and an Arcum Dagsson EDH.
March 28, 2015 10:36 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #6
Well, in Teysa, you always have the option of racing to some sort of combo (This is being said without looking at your deck lists), but otherwise, your game plan should just be sac outlets until they can't pay for it, and by that time you've taken the game over anyway. Geth's Verdict, Devour Flesh, Innocent Blood, Black Sun's Zenith, Mutilate, other board wipes. Just kill her over and over.
And I don't think that I can help much with the blue deck, as blue EDH isn't exactly my style. Someone else should be able to offer some insight though!
March 28, 2015 10:42 p.m.
Herrschlafanzug says... #7
The Teysa deck I have up here on Tapped out is a bit different than my current one in real life, but it's similar. Most of the Narset decks that I play against run a lot of control on top of the Extra turn and combat-step cards. Stuff like Return to Dust, Swords to Plowshares, and field wipes. I can't really counter Narset because somehow they always seem to get Cavern of Souls out. I also often see things like Grand Abolisher come into play also... as for sac engines, the people I know with narset can ramp into her by turn 3... makes it hard for me to set up.
March 28, 2015 10:47 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #8
Try running some sweepers like Wrath of God, you can wipe her out as well as other people's creatures.
Also Arcane Lighthouse is pretty crazy. Makes all your targeted removal valid again.
March 28, 2015 11:06 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #9
If you're playing combo, try to combo off faster than the Narset player. Otherwise, you absolutely have to shut down the Narset player with counterspells, mass removal, or stax-based effects that keep the Narset player from doing much. The upside is that Narset, Enlightened Master has to be cast for 6 mana and also has to attack; compared to Prossh, Skyraider of Kher and Maelstrom Wanderer, this is easier to deal with.
It's also worth noting that certain cards like Arcane Laboratory can shut down Narset's triggered ability, and that cards like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite can immediately kill her if played. It's not impossible to deal with; it's just very difficult, especially for a deck that's not prepared to do so.
March 28, 2015 11:11 p.m.
You can try removing Hexproof from opponents creatures.
March 28, 2015 11:24 p.m.
DeathChant17 says... #16
Any spell that will counter a creature spell, AEtherize and Polymorphist's Jest will fit into your Arcum deck. You already got Cyclonic Rift, overloaded of course. The only negative thing being is her ability will already be on the stack and resolve after she is gone.
March 28, 2015 11:39 p.m.
Use land destruction effects like wasteland or strip mine, ghost quater, etc. to combat cavern of souls
March 28, 2015 11:47 p.m.
Herrschlafanzug says... #18
It also seems that some Narset players have been throwing in some counter-spells too. Swan Song, Pact of Negation, ect. I usually can respond to their counters in my arcum deck, but I only run like 8 counter spells in there.
March 28, 2015 11:52 p.m.
The only time I played against her, I was running a Mono blue EDH deck that didn't have a lot going for it. I ended up having to hoard all my counters just to stop her after the first time she came out. We got her Summon Cost all the way up to 14 before the game ended. Crazy stuff.
I lost, but so did the Narset player, hahaha
March 29, 2015 midnight
"Obligatory wait for her to get banned post. Obligatory get new friends post."
But seriously, I think Arcane Lighthouse, sacrifice effects (Fleshbag Marauder/Grave Pact), instant speed wraths (Evacuation/Rout), or combat phase skips like Orim's Chant would be your best options.
March 29, 2015 1:39 a.m.
asasinater13 says... #22
most of what I can say has been said.
Arcane Lighthouse is awesome. wrath effects are good.
Also, she's just a 3/2 first strike. play some blockers, because from narset decks I've seen they try to chain extra combats and extra turns, but I rarely see them stuffed with ways to buff narset.
also edicts are good. so anything that makes them sac a creature. something like Smallpox would be real good, because it also hurts their mana (and yours, but killing narset and their land is probably more value for you)
Also spells like Silence are good vs combo decks in general. just respond to her "exile the top four" trigger with a silence and the cards she hits don't get to be played. this only buys a turn, but that's significant, especially if you have blockers, Render Silent is a spell I love. doesn't fit the decks you were talking about but it never gets enough attention.
Angelic Arbiter turns off narset. she attacks, her ability triggers, and the spells can't be used. It'll draw hate from most people at the table, but I think it's a good card to run for commander in general, and specifically hoses narset.
March 29, 2015 2:59 a.m.
whiledpayne says... #23
tbh you probably wont see narset much longer as she will probably get banned now there is no tucking. But any spells that prevent extra turns, taking control of her and spiders seem to be some of the better solutions. I run her and really the deck can just take off and not be stopped. i combo'd for 16 extra turns in one play so it really isnt fair
March 29, 2015 3:24 a.m.
asasinater13 says... #24
I don't see narset as an unbeatable force, personally. I strongly think her (and other voltron) are manageable if one is prepared enough to handle her.
whiledpayne for reference, how much of what you do just gets stopped by your opponent having a 4/4 blocker for narset? If I'm seeing your deck right going to your profile you've got two burn spells that would put it into range of narset's first strike, sword, and whispersilk cloak that can save her. Personally I don't think any strategy that relies on your opponent having something smaller than an Ondu Giant is unfair.
I feel like people have been happy with tuck as a catch-all saving them from commanders they don't want to have to deal with, and that we need to give ourselves time to adjust to not having it before we call every previously tuck-needing commander broken.
March 29, 2015 3:54 a.m.
The real issue is Hexproof. We wouldn't be having so many threads about voltron (especially Narset) running rampant under the new rules if Wizards still used Shroud. I don't know how they justify using a one-sided Shroud under their No Hurt Feelings And Everything Is Over-Balanced NWO. I don't think Narset should be banned but Wizards needs to step up their game and put out more anti-hexproof stuff to deal with this new "issue"... Like how they've been printing a "destroy target planeswalker" card seemingly every block.
Your best option against her are preemptive lockouts like Nevermore, Voidstone Gargoyle, Meddling Mage, and Iona, Shield of Emeria. Failing that, try some of the suggestions above. Instant speed X spells work well too since they get around hexproof/shroud: Fault Line, Squall Line, Magmaquake, and Starstorm. Use Vedalken Orrery for sorceries on your opponent's turn.
March 29, 2015 11:33 a.m.
asasinater13 says... #26
I still think if your deck doesn't get out 2/4s you're not protecting yourself from creature-strategies efficiently anyways... targeted removal shouldn't be your only answer to creatures you run.
March 29, 2015 11:50 a.m.
whiledpayne says... #27
asasinater13 i also have 4 plansewalkers that can tap down, some equiptment including one that makes her unblockable, and honestly im not afraid to just swing and get the four cards, she doesnt have to deal combat damage only attack, that is what makes her more problamatic. In all the times ive playtested her, once she goes off, it is game over
March 29, 2015 2:12 p.m.
Isochron Scepter + Silence is just too good verse narset
March 29, 2015 7:01 p.m.
The thing with Narset is she can easily be built into a turn 3-5 combo machine. Now when faced with ultra-competitive violent EDH decks, you have two lines of defence:
1: Play an equally unfair and violent deck.
2: Find another playgroup.
March 30, 2015 3:55 p.m.
Reymarkable says... #31
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed add all or any of the protection swords and watch your opponent take 6 in the face every creature spell.
March 31, 2015 12:53 a.m.
Having answers to powerful commanders is "Elitist" and "Tryhard".
The only solution to strong commanders is to refuse to play against them.
This is what Sheldon Menery and the RC thinks.
March 31, 2015 12:24 p.m.
SimicPower says... #34
Sleazebag: No? I don't know when the RC/Sheldon has ever said that.
March 31, 2015 4:04 p.m.
jandrobard says... #35
Sleazebag I can't tell if you're making a crack about the RC or you're an EDH purist. Either is acceptable, I just don't have any context.
March 31, 2015 4:07 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #36
You don't need to play an unfair deck to make it hard for her to do anything. You do need to run answers; there are always a couple of strong commanders running around. Before Narset, Enlightened Master we had Zur the Enchanter running around, etc.
Something like Time Stop is pretty hilarious if you manage to cast it and time it right to resolve after the initial flurry of people trying to stop her. If Narset isn't able to counter it, she can end up in a dangerous position dead in the water, her precious stack exiled.
March 31, 2015 4:43 p.m.
SimicPower & jandrobard: I thought my use of quotation marks would make it clearer, but yeah I was making fun of the RC.
While they haven't said it in those exact words, that IS the message they have given people when asked about the consequences of the tuck change.
Hell, they even outright stated that they might need to ban Derevi and Purphoros (and other problem commanders) as a result of this rule change. IN THE SAME ARTICLE WHERE THEY WRITE A WHOLE PARAGRAPH ABOUT HOW THIS CHANGE WILL INCREASE DIVERSITY.
Since I need to give a source to back my claims up, I will link it. But Sheldon and SCG does not deserve any hits, unless its a smack in the head. http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30542_Tuck.html
Thise whole change is done just because the RC "felt like it". They had no good reason to do it, it was just something they wanted to do. So they have been desperately trying to justify it, and failing. when the RC radically changes the way the format works just because of muh feel-feels then something is seriously wrong.
Going by Sheldon and the RC's own solution: I guess you just have to ban Narset. It's an "unfortunate" side effect of a "necessary" change... Or play land destruction, because you know whats more fun than tucking a general? Making sure they never get enough mana to cast it in the first place!
March 31, 2015 7:17 p.m.
SimicPower says... #38
Sleazebag: Let's not turn this thread into a debate on the new ruling. There are already 2 other threads for that. Back on topic...
Solutions to Narset. I don't know if anyone has mentioned Rule of Law type effects yet.
March 31, 2015 8:34 p.m.
SimicPower says... #40
Another option: Pray that Narset hits three lands. (Assuming Brainstorm or Sensei's Divining Top have not messed with the top of the library.)
March 31, 2015 8:38 p.m.
HeroInMyOwnMind says... #41
There are cards that get around Hexproof (Council's Judgment), remove Hexproof (people mentioned the two big ones above), or otherwise ignore hexproof (board wipes).
Since you are playing white, oppression cards are also an option.
The last thing I would suggest is cards that prevent extra turns, most of which are artifacts.
March 31, 2015 10:18 p.m.
MirranTitan says... #42
I have been playing narset a lot lately, and I have to say. She is defeated in several ways.
1: larger blocker. I ran into an inferno titan once, hoping to rip Center Soul or something of that ilk.
2: Wrath of God ugh. gross. Yesterday, narset costed me 10 mana to cast. What am I going to do, not cast it again? I have to. The deck really doesn't win without narset.
3 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite two toughness, amiright?
4 Time Stop just... stop.
5 Counterspell and friends...
6 Meddling Mage name the lady herself.
7 Evacuation eh, not great, but it helps.
April 3, 2015 12:03 a.m.
Nevermore could work. I've heard people say that's kind of a dick card, but my friends don't particularly mind when it's played.
April 5, 2015 5:01 p.m.
Pedrodamus says... #44
Nevermore is a dick card, but it's a great dick card. And if someone is going to play Narset, which most Narset decks are dick decks, then Nevermore fits the bill as a solution to deal with it.
Servo_Token says... #2
What are you trying to play?
March 28, 2015 10:32 p.m.