Daedalus19876 I've just got three old copies of ancient tomb in my other commander decks and if I wanted another I'd probably get a 4th tempest one. Not really sure if Hapatra needs one though given that she's 2cmc. It's like how my Ruric Thar doesn't have strip mine because the deck already has so much land destruction it's kinda pointless. Also I really like the idea of Diabolic Intent over Worldly Tutor in this deck.

This deck only has 5 card draw effects. Combined with having only 33 lands in the deck. I dont understand how you manage to deploy your resources. Forgive my ignorance, but can you tell me how you are getting away with this? I understand you have some solid mana rocks but I still... do you just spend your tutors to go get Skullclamp and Generous Patron every game?

cleandeceit The whole "You need 36-38 lands in you Commander deck" is a big meme that needs to die honestly. If 1/3 of your deck is lands that's perfectly fine. The only time I've ever had problems with a very similar build of this deck was somehow being unable to draw a source of black for ten turns and nothing but forests and colorless rocks. Also a lot of finely tuned green decks get away with 30-33 because of dorks.

cleandeceit I asked me the same question, I built this deck and had mana issues every game, had to increase the number. Maybe I'm just playing wrong or searching for the wrong cards.

cleandeceit, OptimalGreen, and Patolea:

Well, let's start with the honest truth - ever since the last set of changes, I DO want to add 1-2 more land, and probably one more source of draw. I just haven't had time to play the new version of the deck enough to figure out the best cuts (due to computer issues and grad school applications).

But, with that said:

1) The deck runs nine strong tutors, so I rarely have significant trouble finding what I need. Most of our combos are either cheated out (cough Defense of the Heart and friends cough), or are relatively low-CMC (Devoted Druid + Ivy Lane Denizen, for example). Devoted Druid shows up nearly every game as well: it's important as a mana source here even when not part of a combo.

2) The deck mostly prioritized tutors over draw, but it's worth mentioning that most of the sources of draw are repeatable. I never really liked 1-shot draw effects in this deck (like Read the Bones for example), they didn't fit well when I tested them. I do tutor for Generous Patron very frequently, to be fair. She's BONKERS here ;)

3) Like many Golgari decks, the deck also focuses a bit more on reusing pieces that go to GY than digging deeper into the deck. Once I tutor for something, if it dies, I can Reanimate it, etc. We don't care as much about having card advantage if we can retrieve the combo pieces (or aggro power boosters) we need. Not to mention that Meren of Clan Nel Toth (another frequent target of tutors) is card advantage in and of herself.

(Also, the functional curve is lower than it looks, since I really don't intend to hardcast the high-CMC creatures in most games.)

Does that answer your questions? :)

Daedalus19876 Of course! Thank you for paying attention.

I would like to take the opportunity to say that Lane Denizen and Generous Patron are AEWSOME!!!!! I really need to update my version with these.

I totally agree with you in the 1-shot draw effects.

I will pass to search for these cards you suggested for more card advantage.

Thank you!

Patolea: To be clear, I can definitely imagine a version of this deck that plays more draw effects - as it is, this deck is very very explosive in early turns, but struggles to rebuild after a board wipe or two. More draw effects would decrease this issue, but make the deck slower in early turns. I’m trying to find a healthy balance with card-positive draw, tutors, and fast threats ;)

I can see adding 1-2 more lands since you cut carpets I just wanted to make the case that a lot of highly turned two-color green decks run around 30-33 lands due to rocks, dorks, and enchantments like carpet of flowers and earthcraft. Also what else is there to add except re-add Phyrexian Arena for draw?

OptimalGreen Slate of Ancestry and Regal Force have been nice for me. Plus, slate triggers the archfiend. Grabbing survival is important to start tutoring up you’re utility creatures and this is an important tutor target. I also play Razaketh, the Foulblooded

Yeah I think Phyrexian Arena would be the best choice. It's 3cmc so it gets in early possibly on turn 2 with Chrome Mox or even turn 1 with Mana Crypt and is never dead on the field unlike Slate of Ancestry. It's just faster and more reliable although it only gets you a single extra card per turn. Also it has artwork by Pete Venters on top of being great black card draw.

Also oops I'm an idiot I forgot it was 1BB ignore the crypt part since I can't edit the comment

Testing another change!

Adding Necropotence (I think my landbase can finally support it well enough) and Phyrexian Reclamation (recursion is basically protection right?). Removing Protean Hulk (less good now that only one of my infinite combos is fetchable with it) and Vona's Hunger (a pet card of mine, and easy to get City’s Blessing but... always a bit of a disappointment to draw).

Also, I discovered that Generous Patron + Archfiend of Ifnir is a total board wipe against all opponents’ creatures while also drawing a bunch of cards: it’s like Decree of Pain on steroids. And even better, this combo doesn’t require Hapatra on field!

Daedalus19876 - necropotence is a non-bo with Survival of the Fittest and the Archfiend of Ifnir since you’ll be exiling cards you discard, but it could be explosive. I chose not to run it since I’m running alot of discard effects to trigger archfiend. Maybe it can work for you though

smashadams83: Due to the updated wording on Necropotence (notably not printed on my copy), you still discard the cards and they get exiled from your GY. This means that discarding extra cards with Necro DOES trigger Archfiend of Ifnir, though you won’t be able to reanimate those cards at sorcery speed (so no Victimize or Reanimate, but you CAN get them back with Atzal, Cave of Eternity).

Dowsing Dagger stuck out as an odd choice to me. How is it performing for you?

TheChrisWaits: Oh, man, it’s been amazing (in multiplayer). Give the plants to Player A, swing at Player B (often with a snake they don’t want to block), get Lost Vale untapped?? I usually manage to play, equip, and flip in the same turn. The ramp is great, and the plants are convenient places to stick -1 counters when my opponents don’t have creatures.

Seems good so far I was debating will Helm of the Host work well in this deck?

Cause A. Clone hapatra = Snakes all day x 2

or B. Clone -1/-1/ maker = Snakes all day x 2

Sorry for the delay Daedalus19876, I had written this last night but didn't click post.

Oh man, the mechanics in here are ridiculous. The infinite combos you listed look pretty fun to sequence out and it seems like there'd always be things for you to do. Wild.

I was wondering about Cryptolith Rite as a good addition for mana ramping, but I see it was already recommended. Why not?

Maybe Pitiless Plunderer with all the dying?

Black Market—the Growing Rites of Itlimoc  ^Flip for —could be huge, especially it's when ANY creature dies... though perhaps it's to high a mana cost judging by the curve you're currently running; it looks like your in a pretty fast metta. I've got it in a Ghave deck and it's nuts.

I've got Archfiend of Ifnir in a madness/discard strategy I'm working on and he's a keystone power card in there with all my discards and cycling each turn. The combo with Generous Patron is fantastic. Unfortunately the madness deck is; are there other scenarios you really find him performing big in this deck?

I love the idea of Ifnir Deadlands but I'm not too sure about Exotic Orchard since that's best in 3 colors and above. I think I'd rather have the four fetches honestly. :v

gdm1989: Honestly, it's just not worth the 9 mana to me; one copy of Hapatra is enough to go infinite ;)

goldlion: Thank you for the comment! I'm glad the deck seems interesting :D

In answer to your questions: Cryptolith Rite is one of the many cards on the maybeboard at the moment...I own a foil copy, and I know it would be fantastic in the deck, but I'm not sure what to cut for it...Any ideas? ;)

Pitiless Plunderer is an interesting thought, I hadn't considered that previously. I'll think on it! Black Market is probably too slow, I'm afraid, and honestly this deck doesn't have many good mana sinks for it (very low CMC curve overall, since I have ways to cheat in high-cost things like Craterhoof). Archfiend of Ifnir has proven to be pretty good, albeit somewhat conditional. Luckily, I can cycle him away if I don't have Survival of the Fittest or Generous Patron, so he never hangs out in my hand being useless. Thanks for your thoughts!

OptimalGreen: Full disclosure - while Exotic Orchard IS a good card, and fantastic-looking in foil, I accidentally forgot to order my fourth fetch. It's on its way now >.< and Ifnir Deadlands is...so-so, in my testing so far. The issue is that many times I want a basic Swamp for Earthcraft, and the 5 mana to get the 2 counters is pretty rough. Though, to be fair, I do like the cute synergy with Scavenger Grounds :3

So I have a question: How well does this deck interact with +1/+1 counters being placed on creatures? Or having -1/-1 counters removed before the creatures die?

Also, a lists of cards that could be useful (unknown if you already knew about these or play tested them)(would still want to hear your thoughts on them within a deck):

Plaguemaw Beast (sac-a-snake, make-a-nest)

Poison-Tip Archer (redundant win-con is redundant)

Driven Despair (aggro?)

Rishkar, Peema Renegade (any counter counts)

Quillspike (known combo piece)

Flourishing Defenses (see "aggro?")

Harbinger of Night (recommend pair with Melira, Sylvok Outcast )

Blight Sickle (once again, aggro?)

Hex Parasite (political tool)

TheRedGoat: Thanks for the thoughts/suggestions! The only pieces that care about -1 counters being on the creature when they die are Necroskitter and Blowfly Infestation - the former may get cut, and the latter mostly sticks stuff on my own creatures (so it's not a problem really). The deck mostly cares about the -1 placement itself :)

And regarding your suggestions - Plaguemaw Beast is interesting, but I'm not super convinced that it's worth the 5 mana and waiting for summoning sickness to wear off... Poison-Tip Archer isn't really worth the 4 mana to me, though I could see it fitting into my sideboard for the additional usefulness of having reach (this deck struggles with fliers). Driven / Despair is actually something I want to fit back into the deck when I find space for it (it may replace Necroskitter)! Rishkar, Peema Renegade just seems like a less good version of Cryptolith Rite here, another card I'm trying to fit in (too few slots, bleh). Quillspike recently got cut because he was too fragile, dies from a single counter, and is only really useful with Devoted Druid. Flourishing Defenses is just too much mana for its effect, unfortunately. Harbinger of Night just got cut - he was just too slow and tended to cause problems. Blight Sickle is not efficient enough, in my opinion (I'd rather run Glistening Oil, ANOTHER possible inclusion), and while Hex Parasite is cute against opposing PWs and maybe could find a home in the sideboard, he doesn't advance my game plan enough to put him in the main deck.

Thank you again for the suggestions! :)

Excellent question on what to drop, Daedalus19876. I usually find the idea "When in doubt, drop a land" to be good practice....

Juuuuuust joking! Maybe doable with the ramp Cryptolith Rite and Pitiless Plunderer offer, but you're already at 34... we need those lands in the opening hand!

Do you find yourself short on mana, or having to wait a turn longer than you hoped for game changing plays? I guess that's the big question, followed by what cards do you find not being so game changing providing good effects in low instances? Archfiend of Ifnir perhaps, if he's just been "pretty good"? It seems like the mana that Cryptolith Rite and Pitiless Plunderer could provide you in a deck with these mechanics could be pretty significant, all the time... but then again, the mass snakes that Archfiend could give you.... hmmm.

goldlion: Honestly, the most likely cuts for Cryptolith Rite, Driven / Despair, and Glistening Oil are Necroskitter, Midnight Banshee, and Exotic Orchard. But that drives my creature count even lower, making Survival of the Fittest a less and less good card... It’s hard to balance things.

Odd question but if you could either get the Masterpiece of Chrome Mox or Lightning Greaves which would you get? I got some early Christmas money and I'm having a hard time choosing. Both are Commander staples so it's a hard choice.