Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 25, 2021, 6:35 a.m. by Coward_Token
A little early, but I figured there should be a new thread for the actual spoiler season. (It starts Janurary 27.)
For those who missed it, a new card was officially spoiled this Christmas: https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/1474425391418904594
Important dates Show
My thoughts Show
jethstriker says... #2
Can't believe they really named a card like this. Insert your "Nani" jokes now.
February 3, 2022 2:43 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #3
O.k. Yoshimaru and Go-Shintai are really cool. Might actually want to build around one of those two new legendaries.
February 3, 2022 6:51 p.m.
I love the simplicity of the new Myojin. The shrine commander looks sick, too.
February 3, 2022 7:26 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #5
WotC has said that multi-colored cards can be either less expensive and/or more powerful than mono-colored cards with similar effects, so how is farewell allowed to exist, when it is almost entirely superior to Merciless Eviction? This is similar to how the mono-colored Thought Collapse is superior to the multi-colored Psychic Strike.
February 3, 2022 10:07 p.m.
So far the power level for this set seems pretty high. The new black dockside for the commander-only set booster cards just seems like a bad idea all around to me. I think there is a non-zero chance this set ends up being thought of a lot like Throne of Eldraine.
February 3, 2022 10:33 p.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #7
Abaques im curious why you say the power level is high. especially throne of eldraine high, which had multiple cards banned from modern. can you name some neon dynasty cards you think are modern worthy?
February 3, 2022 10:54 p.m.
DemonDragonJ Psychic Strike is not exactly an overpowering card, it's basically draft filler. So a slight increase in power and flexibility isn't going to change much.
For Farewell, the main change here is the final target, planeswalkers vs. graveyards. The last option of Farewell is easily replicated by countless MV 1 colorless cards, so it's kind of a stock effect, and is either game-winning or useless. The last option of Merciless Eviction is more unique and more likely to be a meaningful option in any given matchup. So I think the drop in color is balanced by the drop in utility between these two cards.
February 3, 2022 11:13 p.m.
DragonWolf420 I think the obvious one is Boseiju, Who Endures which is gonna be legacy playable. That whole land cycle is probably a mistake even though the rest of the cycle are far weaker. The cost of including one or two in most decks is just very minimal.
I'm an EDH and limited player, so my knowledge on constructed formats is limited. From an EDH perspective there are quite a few cards that are significant upgrades for quite a few archetypes. The new Kodama is more or less an auto-include in any green deck focusing on +1/+1 counters for example and Ruthless Technomancer looks like a very similar card to Dockside Extortionist.
February 3, 2022 11:37 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #10
Bronze Clubs: the formula for calculating how much power you get from activating it "N" times is
The relative power of the white and red Channel lands is kinda insulting.
Colossal Skyturtle: I like the different channel abilities, helps differentiate it from MDFCs.
Containment Construct: more concentrated, less self-sufficient Conspiracy Theorist. I like it.
Blade-Blizzard Kitsune: Doesn't feel super white but ninjas in different colors is obviously fun. Red when?
Invigorating Hot Springs: monkey bath time!
February 4, 2022 12:52 a.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #11
Abaques: i don't even think Boseiju would be modern playable. holding back a land drop just to maybe destroy something while ramping the opponent seems sub-optimal. theres also the fact it says "basic land type" and not "basic land". the opponent could just search up their shock lands.
February 4, 2022 1:10 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #12
DragonWolf420 - While I agree that I don't think this set will remotely approach Eldraine levels of power (though we still have more spoilers to go), I think you are vastly underestimating Boseiju's power. This is a land that comes into play untapped (so zero cost for deck inclusion) that is an un-counterable, can't be discarded to targeted discard, instant speed answer to just about every problematic permanent in Modern that isn't named Ragavan. Just take a look at some of the cards/decks this card single-handedly stops: Amulet-Titan (Amulet of Vigor/Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle), Hammer Time (Urza's Saga, Colossus Hammer), Afinity, Charbelcher, Mono-red (Damage free Eidolon of the Great Revel removal), Urza's Saga (deserves a second mention), Blood Moon, the Leylines, Pithing Needle, Chalice of the Void, and there is more. The card is nuts. I think both Boseiju and the slightly weaker Otawara will see extensive play in every format that they are legal in.
Anyways, Eater of Virtue looks like it could be a solid inclusion in keyword focused decks
Twisted Embrace is a really interestingly designed card, though definitely geared toward Limited.
Debt to the Kami is an upgraded version of Pharika's Libation which I am all for.
Farewell is interesting. I think 4-5 years ago this would be lauded as the best white board wipe or close second to Austere Command (exile is a double edged sword), but I am not sure where it fits into the Commander format today. I don't think it will edge out Austere Command, Tragic Arrogance or Vanquish the Horde in any white deck I am running. It's definitely strong, but I think it is a few years too late.
February 4, 2022 11:39 a.m.
I'm not saying Boseiju will see zero play, but I do not believe that it's going to be a defining 4-of in the format. Path to Exile has seen less and less play over the years and Assassin's Trophy has seen even less play because just giving your opponent a basic in return ends up putting you behind. And Boseiju is even worse than that because it lets them get their shocklands or Triomes. If you wanted to, with Ghost Quarter you could recur it enough to run opponents out of their few basics, but Boseiju will be virtually unlimited. In Modern, I think Titan and the Cascade decks probably run it the most to unlock their combo kills, but just as an example, do you REALLY want to use Boseiju on a Colossus Hammer or Sigarda's Aid? You just gave your opponent an extra land to ramp them into getting Lurrus and recasting what you blew up. You blew up an Urza's Saga, but they now have a land that won't go away in two turns.
Some decks will run Boseiju, but since cards with similar drawbacks have seen little play lately, my expectations for it are really tempered.
Also the cycle just annoys me because they're entirely capable of printing Legendary Lands! The power of Field of the Dead and Lotus Field could've been balanced by making copies never stick around!
February 4, 2022 2:23 p.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #14
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: i'm going to strongly disagree. there is better removal. i think you're strawmaning the argument and ignoring the downsides. what happens when you get a 2 land hand and that land is one of them? you're not gonna hold back that land drop. i think otawara is even way worse. 4 mana for a soft removal that lets the opponent reset their planeswalker or re-use their etb's? no thanks.
amulet titan is a deck you certainly don't want to let grab another Stomping Ground, against hammer time and affinity, you'd want removal that can get rid of multiple things, not just 1. charlbelcher? where are you seeing that being played? as for burn, eidolon doesn't justify boseiju. Blood Moon? lots of stuff get rid of that. theres just so much better removal for all those cards you mentioned.
February 4, 2022 3:29 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #15
DragonWolf420 - That's not really what the definition of a "straw man" argument is but I digress. I am not ignoring the downsides at all, which are that it's a legendary land so you are running 2, maybe 3 max and that it lets your opponent find a replacement land. However, it's important to consider the alternative. Is Valakut or Amulet worse than a Stomping Ground? Or is a flashed in Hammer or Uzra's Saga threatening two giant beaters and a tutor for a wincon worse than a normal land. I'd say so. This card answers most of the things about to kill you without taking up critical deck slots deck-slots. Think of it this way. Your removal package just increased by 2-3 without removing any other card in the deck. That's why these lands are so strong. Is there better removal? Of course there is, but this type of card reinforces your already existing removal package without changing any of the deck configuration.
In regards to Otawaru, sure bouncing a planeswalker our MH2 elemental would be bad, but how about that 6/6 construct barreling down on you? Or that Murktide Regent? What about that Ensaring Bridge preventing you from attacking? Tempo plays are an important strategy in winning games. I think if you are only worried about planeswalkers and etb effects, then you are missing the wider applications of this card.
Lastly,I don't really see an issue with your 2-land hand scenario, other than it being that I kept a 2 land hand. If I did keep it, I play Boseiju as a land and carry on with my game as normal. It's an untapped land (which is a big deal) when you need it, or it's a removal spell when you need it. It's pretty versatile.
February 4, 2022 4:35 p.m.
DragonWolf420 I think the disconnect is that you're seeing Boseiju as a removal spell that can also be a land, but really it's a land that is also a removal spell. What makes it so powerful isn't the effect so much as the marginal cost of including it. In your two land hand scenario you always play it as a land. You would still want to include removal in your deck, but knowing you have one or more Boseiju's gives you added flexibility in what and how much removal you have. It's basically a forest with removal attached to it. That's just really powerful.
I think it's likely that Boseiju warps all the formats it's legal in, although it likely will do so in a more subtle way then Ragavan has.
February 4, 2022 4:38 p.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #17
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor thats exactly what a strawman argument is. its a one sided argument meant to make the other side look weaker than it really is. i stopped reading after that since you're not changing my mind about the card.
Abaques: thats the same thing. there is no disconnect. boseiju won't nearly warp anything. it's drastically less powerful than ragavan.
February 4, 2022 4:44 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #18
Experimental Synthesizer: Even if it's for , letting mono-red make a creature with vigilance feels weird.
February 4, 2022 5:59 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #19
Coward_Token - huh, that is odd. I just assumed it was red when I read the card.
DragonWolf420 - I am legitimately interested in why you think my response to your post #11 is a straw-man argument. There is a difference between 1) disagreeing with someone and then providing explanation as to why you disagree with them and; 2) disagreeing with someone and then distorting their words to make their argument appear weaker. You said the card is not modern playable. I said I think you are underestimating it's power level and then provided examples from the Modern format as to why I think it's strong. I fail to see any distortion of your words there. Regardless, this isn't the right place to argue about logical fallacies. I respect that I won't change your mind.
February 4, 2022 6:11 p.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #20
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: re-read my definition of straw man argument. i never said you distorted "my" words. but when you only look at one side of the issue, and you blatantly ignore the rest, it is a straw man argument whether you like it or not. you're overestimating the card. you're only looking at the upsides, and not the downsides. lets not pretend that replacing a single forest with boseiju is just gonna all of a sudden kill affinity and hammer time decks or anything else.
February 4, 2022 6:53 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #21
I said I wouldn't argue this anymore. You clearly have your own understanding of things.
Let's get back to what this thread is about. Discussing all these fun new cards!
Any new commanders folks interested in building? Kotori seems like the top contender for me.
February 4, 2022 8:41 p.m.
I am 100% in on Isshin, Two Heavens as One! I also have a strange fascination with the leaked mono green one from the commander precon. I forget his name at the moment. The shrine commander is cool, too, but I have a Theros 5 color enchantment deck already which is basically the same thing.
Lastly, though I probably won't build them, the new Myojin are super cool.
February 4, 2022 9:13 p.m.
DragonWolf420 says... #23
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: sure you "said" that, but i see you failed to stick to it. also i couldn't help but notice you failed to tag me, likely because you hoped i wouldn't see it because you wanted the "last word". my understanding of things is the correct understanding, because i know what words mean before i use them. you can google "strawman argument" for yourself. until you can actually bring yourself to admit the downsides (the way i already admitted the upside) then all you have to cling to is that strawman.
February 4, 2022 9:13 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #24
Isshin is pretty cool for sure. Commander Replay just dropped a neat little short for a tokens build with him using all of the on attack triggers with cards like Grave Titan. The black Myojin could be a janky boardwipe tribal commander.
February 4, 2022 10:27 p.m.
I just now realized that all the Myojin have "cast from hand" triggers and now I am sad. :(
February 4, 2022 10:55 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #26
I may finally build that Saskia the Unyielding deck with Isshin, Two Heavens as One now that we have a "second" Wulfgar of Icewind Dale. True, they are technically a "non-bo" with Saskia, but given the deck in general is a highly "attacking matters" thing, it'll be fine.
IMAGINE THE MANA FROM SAVAGE VENTMAW
sorry not sorry
Interestingly enough, Isshin doesn't care about YOUR creatures attacking. So if an opponent attacks and it triggers something you control, their creatures will trigger that an additional time also.
For example, an opponent swings at you and you have Sarkhan the Masterless online. Isshin will cause Sarkhan to trigger twice.
February 4, 2022 10:59 p.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy says... #27
The key difference here is Wulfgar specifies it being a creature you control.
Isshin does not ;)
February 4, 2022 11:05 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #28
You can get around the Myojin drawback with the likes of Command Beacon but yeah, definitely makes it more work to get full value out of them.
Savage Ventmaw's big brother, Klauth, Unrivaled Ancient can net you even more mana.
Isshin with Aurelia, the Warleader + a mass vigilance effect is also pretty gross. Throw in a Melee effect and that is a lot of damage being slung around....man Isshin is sound more and more fun.
February 4, 2022 11:20 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #29
Kosei: Colorless butfighting Equipment when? And is the flavor that he relapses from pacifism if he's given a weapon?
Smoke Spirit's Aid: could have been an Aura for 1R with Replicate X :)
Kami of Celebration: a little weird to put this in the same set as Tempered in Solitude
Swift Reconfiguration: the flavor text is something
Imposter Mech: idk if making a noncreature artifact copy of creature has any interesting combos
February 7, 2022 5:03 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #30
I feel the "and" on the condition for Kosei's ability is too much, especially since he doesn't have evasion or any form of self-protection; assembling everything and then getting hit by random removal feels like a pretty common risk that's exasperated by the Aura problem (and to some extent counters not being "sticky"). Colors aside, I feel Wyleth, Soul of Steel is a much less awkward built-in-draw voltron option.
February 8, 2022 12:44 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #31
I think it's cool that we now have a legitimate Commander for 5c Shrine Tribal with Go-Shintai of Life's Origin, instead of using Sanctum of All since Golos is banned.
Shrine Tribal is a pretty flimsy deck, having built it myself. You primarily win via burn from the few red Shrines. The rest don't really help out much other then slightly delaying the inevitable. The deck is so paper thin that one well-timed wrath decimates the deck and you can't function for the rest of the game.
Golos was beautiful in that you could wheel into random Shrines but he's gone now so that sucks. Sanctum of All works beautifully because you get that direct tutor, but what happens is you either play the deck one of two ways:
- Always find the best possible Shrine for that specific moment in the game to try and inch closer toward winning, which feels highly mechanical and lackluster in my opinion
- Shuffle the library and whatever you find first is what you get, no exceptions. Chaos style, which usually causes you to lose the game as you have no strategy or anything to fall back on
Go-Shintai is nice because you can return not just a Shrine but any sort of enchantment, so that makes it really useful to bring back your prisons to slow the game down enough to where you stand a chance.
The 1/1 Shrine creature tokens are also awesome because it expands your potential by a lot, since each Shrine will view these tokens and trigger off them as well.
Honestly, I sort of feel like a self-mill deck is worth it. Once you get the mana available and Go-Shintai is protected, you can dump your library into your graveyard. Now it's a free tutor. So rather than cramming a dozen tutors and draw into your deck, replace all of it with mill and sift the yard like a pro. It'll be a lot faster and a lot easier.
Add in Muldrotha for extra kick and you'll be cooking with gas in no time. The deck likely won't work well at all, more of a mid-tier casual deck, though.
Honestly, for a 5c deck, that's kind of sad. But, it's Shrine Tribal, baby! Still. Difficult to justify a deck that would be that expensive just to win only like 12% of the time... probably not worth buying, but could be fun to build as a challenge.
February 8, 2022 1:29 a.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #32
I think that Banishing Slash should have been an instant, and that Brilliant Restoration should not cost 7 mana, as that is too high of a cost, even as powerful as that effect is.
Why is it that the sagas exile themselves and then transform? If they transformed while they were still on the battlefield, they could attack after becoming creatures, which I feel that they should, considering that a player must spend both time and mana on them.
February 8, 2022 8:23 p.m.
I'm going to guess that if they didn't something would come up with it being the same game object to the rules and the Saga sacrifice clause would make you have to sacrifice it. On the plus side at least it's a second trigger on all your Constellation and other enchantress abilities. If the first two chapters of Michiko's Rain of Truth didn't already dumpster them you get to draw a bunch of the backside which is also a massive beater!
February 8, 2022 11:01 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #34
AFAIK if you Stifle the third ability of a NEO Saga, it just dies :')
February 9, 2022 4:19 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #35
The fact that Universal Surveillance has improvise makes me wish that Explosive Singularity had convoke, as that would have saved much text on that card.
Drumbellower is awesome, and I cannot believe that it took WotC so long to print such a card, but why is it only a 2/1, for three mana? It could easily have been a 2/2, a 1/3, or even a 2/3, and not been overpowered for that cost. None of my current decks can use it, but I shall be certain to keep room for it in any future deck that I build that contains white but not green, and I do hope that WotC reprints it, to keep it available and affordable.
Most of the reprints in the accompanying Commander set are underwhelming, although several of them do have nice new artwork; why does it feel as if WotC is reprinting some of the same cards repeatedly? I am annoyed at another reprint of Exotic Orchard when Reflecting Pool is in much greater need of a reprint. If I did not know any better, I would say that WotC is being spiteful by deliberately not reprinting expensive cards, simply to torment the players.
February 9, 2022 9:40 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #36
Yeah, the reprint value in these precons is absolutely abysmal. It's a shame since these would've been good decks to give us reprints of cards like Smothering Tithe, Hardened Scales, Argothian Enchantress, or Esper Sentinel. It is weird that Azorius pre-cons hold the three lowest reprint values.
Kosei is so close to being an awesome commander. The design is really cool, even with it's drawbacks. I just wish they were a little less safe with him. I guess needing either an equipment or an aura could be a little too strong, but at least give him some sort of built in evasion/protection since he already needs a lot of extra modifications to work. That being said Hydra's Growth + Trailblazer's Boots is pretty spicy after a couple turns.
February 10, 2022 10:44 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #37
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: Yeah also there's unfortunately only like ~10 Equipment & Auras in green that puts counters on the attached creature
February 10, 2022 1:06 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #38
Coward_Token - Are there really that many? I honestly couldn't think of any more beyond Armory of Iroas, Hydra's Growth, and Ring of Kalonia, but I also didn't take a ton of time to search out more. I will say though, the fact that it simply says "a counter" does mean cards like Slippery Bogbonder can modify Kosei.
February 10, 2022 1:38 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #39
Yeah there's some OK stuff available:
(contains superfluous stuff like Grafted Growth or even Cocoon)
And obviously you can get counters from other sources, it's just that twofers are nice for more easily fulfilling all three conditions, especially since I don't think Kosei lets you commit to enchantments or go-wide enough to benefit from green's drawing power within those deck themes. I guess you can eat him with Momentous Fall for five and then recast when you got the stuff
February 10, 2022 3:13 p.m.
One more somewhat random note: I love some of the Saga arts in this set. Sagas are usually some of my favorite new Magic art for years because I think showing how these things are remembered in-universe is really cool. My favorites are probably Okiba Reckoner Raid Flip flaunting the jacket and the story told with the art on both sides of Tribute to Horobi Flip.
February 11, 2022 2:40 p.m.
SpammyV agree with you there. I love art that tells a story. I loved some of the bead-murals in Theros Beyond Death for this reason.
February 11, 2022 2:45 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #42
I am very disappointed that the two Yamazaki sisters do not have any synergy with each other; why is that the case?
February 12, 2022 12:28 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #43
I wish Kaima, the Fractured Calm had an Rienne, Angel of Rebirth-style ability for Auras that you put on opposing creatures, 'cause when a random board wipe happens, you're not only set back on the goading action but ALSO any counters you've managed to put on Kaima. And the goading will naturally lead to goaded creatures getting killed too.
February 12, 2022 6:16 a.m.
It just struck me that Isshin, Two Heavens as One works with Annihilator (see Ulamog's Crusher and friends). I'm not sure how to use that yet, or if someone famous already picked up on it, but I had to get it out of my brain and into the world.
February 12, 2022 2:23 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #45
I feel Kaima not being black-inclusive is a waste; Gruul doesn't have a lot of stuff like Death Watch or Dead Man's Chest
February 12, 2022 4:39 p.m.
Coward_Token you are so ridiculously right - Jund is primed to do something new, something in the realm of forced strife or polymorphing... except WoTC are like: "Jund... = needs more sac, Korvold... something new...no, more sac". Yes, I get Thantis was new, I figured though that that would just be a gateway into that whole realm with Jund. WoTC be like: "Hey lets give it to Sultai & make it best at that new effect - lets give tons of innovation to Sultai"
Anyway, lets hope Kaima, the Fractured Calm is just a future gateway concept for a whole new line of Gruul that WoTC is expecting to push a bunch of support to. Right now it is very thin. To be fair, most things that you put an aura on will be something your opponent won't be likely losing in combat though.
February 12, 2022 5:38 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #47
Oh yeah, there's also some non-death Auras mostly associated with Xantcha that would be nice to put on goaded creatures, like Vampiric Link, Treacherous Link, and Contaminated Bond
February 12, 2022 6:03 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #48
Late realization but Go-Shintai of Boundless Vigor only letting you put counters on a Shrine feels needlessly conservative, especially in a set where counters matter. On a related note, all Shrine cards being legendary is tough for Go-Shintai of Life's Origin; Estrid's Invocation and such would have been nice otherwise. Gogo populate and flicker effects for the tokens I guess.
February 12, 2022 6:09 p.m.
Coward_Token Having extensively experimented in that strategy, with Xantcha, Sleeper Agent & Thantis, the Warweaver I totally agree. This Kaima, the Fractured Calm feels like a tone-deaf attempt by someone in R&D who has not playtested this difficult archetype much.. Much like Thantis herself was - though I still love & play that deck. Unless Streets of awesome demons has a buttload of support for this, it will be a swing & a miss. With the power level of plug & play (card draw, land drop) commanders now, they could have given this card some sort of edge.. I'm thinking something like a activated Aura redirect ability, leaves the battlefield destroy auras ability, heck even a destroy your auras on all creatures... or if you wanted to be less nerfed destroy target enchantment... Or something more creative & balanced to add some juice to this guy.
February 12, 2022 6:38 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #50
Seeing as Shorikai, Genesis Engine is a reference to NGE and has a title that references creation, I wonder if the flavor is that it makes its own Rei clones.
Coward_Token says... #1
All these mono-green snakes being Druids makes Sachi sad
Hinata doesn't feel terribly exciting, anyone got plans for it? At least the art is nice
Reito Sentinel: eyyy, callack! Dungeon!Grenzo is obviously a lot happier with this over Cogwork Archivist
February 2, 2022 3:56 p.m.