Burn from Within

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Arena Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Gladiator Legal
Highlander Legal
Historic Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Pioneer Legal
Planechase Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Burn from Within

Sorcery

Burn from Within deals X damage to target creature or player. If a creature is dealt damage this way, it loses indestructible until end of turn. If that creature would die this turn, exile it instead.

TheoryCrafter on Challenging Maarika

1 year ago

A good point was made about Everlasting Torment. However, keep in mind that there are cards in the deck that allow the Commander to give damage without receiving it. If your adamant on not adding it I would suggest Tear Asunder and/or Burn from Within?

Stardragon on

1 year ago

hmm a single copy of Bow of Nylea would be good, its probably god weapon I use the most (and not just because im a green main) with Whip of Erebos coming in a close second that i use the most for it's utility and cheap cost, Kessig Wolf Run for either a mountain or a temple again for utility Skarrg, the Rage Pits for the same reason though i don't think you need both just which ever one you like more. and i love how simple the deck is but your or real form of removal is badgersaur and relies on discarding non creature or lands, so things like Hull Breach or Decimate could help with problematic things and Savage Twister in case you need a board wipe Starstorm works here to, there are others that could work but these are flexible in how much damage you want to do and i personally like them better than Blasphemous Act for there flexibility. Asceticism is expensive both mana and price and it doesn't add to the board state immediately but it's protection from spot removal and debuffs and a form of recursion.

If need be for a sideboard (I don't know if casual has a side board) i would put some of these for flying hate since that would wreck you since you have no fly protection things like Spidersilk Armor or Gravity Well. Indestructible destoryers like Burn from Within or Hour of Devastation would be ok as well. And if your opponent is blue Prowling Serpopard can help protect your badgers

For now thats it maybe after a night of sleep i'll be able to think of more but for know this should give so fat to chew on.

Wuzibo on Mono White Ramp/Draw

2 years ago

I look at removal as being severely under rated in the current meta. In commander, getting stuff, or your entire board, to be indestructible is kind of a common occurrence.

White has bar none the best way to deal with resolved threats on the board which are indestructible.

Blue being blue, it has the best way to deal with threats overall. It's not quite as good at white for dealing with stuff that's already on the battlefield, but its ability to deal with threats before they hit the board compensates for that. It can also bounce stuff and then counter it

Black has almost as good removal, but since it relies on destroying, not exiling, it isn't as good. It does have a way to deal with indestructible, though, since it has ways to stack -1/-1s on stuff and with green has good access to wither and infect. It also has ways to make people sac stuff.

Green basically just has infect and wither as a way to deal with indestructible creatures which problematic, and a couple effects or spells that can exile artifacts and enchants, so it does have options.

Red doesn't have enchantment removal. Red also 2 ways to deal with indestructible creatures - Chaos Warp and Burn from Within. For artifacts it can do a little better, but once they're indestructible they have like, Goblin Welder and Scrap Mastery and thats about it.

The lack of removal is a big deal. White has ways to respond to a kaalia player dropping avacyn turn 3. The red player likely does not unless they have a chaos warp in hand or just started the game with all their ramp in their hand and have burn within, or try to steal it for a turn and and sac it. The prevailing thought on that is that "red is stronger there because it should be able to win before threats like that hit the field and if it can't then the person playing mono-red is playing mono-red wrong", which isn't really a reasonable way of looking at magic in commander. Modern, sure, but commander, with 40 hp pools and usually multiple players.The blue player can return them to the players hand, since it wasn't cast, or turn it into a frog that does nothing. The black player can try to stack -1s on it, or get the player to sac it. The green player's best course of action is having a big blocker with reach. The white player can path it, stp it, condemn it, or, next turn, darksteel mutation it, or something similar.

I think the main issue with white is that it is a more "Defensive" color, with its removal, board wipes, and stuff like that. However, it lacks ways to actually close out games besides combat and some jank. blue objectively just has the best removal in the game. Blue also has stuff that wins games pretty well. Blue tends to be more defensive and slow, but it's very capable of defending its wincons from anything, and stalling long enough to satisfy those wincons. Even if you have removal and they don't have counters, they can bounce it to their hand and then keep it in their hand for a little until they feel safe to put it out again. White, not so much. It is built more defensively, but it can't actually do the defensive things as well as blue, and doesn't have enough offensive power to make up for it. Green and black are kind of similar in this respect. Black is more in the middle, with green more on the "offense" side of the spectrum. Black has the ability to be defensive and reactive with removal and stuff, but it can also be aggressive and make you discard your threats, or sometimes sac anything you try to remove to at least get some value out of it. Bla. Green can just make bigger threats. If it wants to play safely/defensively for some reason, it can just make big blockers and work on ramping into something absurd, like one of the monster hydras, and use instants like phytoburst and titanic growth to try to protect its stuff from removal. Red has very few defensive options. It can use damage spells on problem monsters, sometimes hit problem artifacts, and it can board wipe almost as well as black and white, but it it the most aggro color. It has very few defensive options relative to the other colors. It does have "disruption", like blood moon, but its outright defenses are few and far between. It is more focused on just going hard, not caring how much damage it takes, it will just win before that damage matters. They say "the only life you can't lose is the last life" is more a black saying, but i think of it as part of red too.

Wuzibo on Weakest Mono Color

2 years ago

I saw something the other day. It was a new video on youtube that was covering a budget Elesh Norn deck. When the video started, the man making the video played a voice recording from a fan that inspired him to make the video, or gave him impetus to.

In that short recording, the fan said "Given that mono white is generally regarded as the weakest mono color, i was wondering if you could showcase a budget mono white deck that is competetive." Or something to that effect.

I couldn't believe what i heard. Mono white is the weakest? I don't know by what metric. I played a few different edh decks in my day, but never mono white. I did, however, do mono green and mono red, and in my first big playgroup we all played together for a few years and at one point or another there was a mono colored deck of every color in our group. Someone else in our group played Elesh Norn for a bit. Someone Did purphoros, and i did too. I did daretti, heartless hidetsugu and yisan. Someone did sheoldred and Sidisi. Idk which mono blue someone did, but the theme of the deck was making everyone else draw their deck in like, 10-15 turns. I stuck with my daretti deck most of the time compared to the others who would switch it up more, because my yisan deck was more for messing around and i didn't have a good landbase for multicolored stuff. Eventually I was forced to build Zurgo Helmsmasher voltron deck that i turned into a Kaalia deck because voltron stuff is expensive as shit, even compared to the good angels, demons and dragons because my playgroup made Daretti unplayable, even though it was a decent deck. This playgroup was incredibly competetive and we actively tried to make the most overpowered stuff we could. This playgroup was active from 2014 to 2017. I stopped playing from 2018 to about a couple months ago. I wanted to give that as a background.

From my perspective, playing mono red anything was very weak for the simple reason that red didn't (and i checked, it still doesn't) have good spot removal or answers compared to the rest of the other colors, and it also has fewer things which are incredibly threatening on their own. I'm specifically thinking about enchantment removal. Red currently has access to 2 cards that, on their own, can deal with enchantments without wiping the board. One is Scour from Existence, and the other is Chaos Warp. Those are also 2 of the 3 cards red has that can deal with indestructible permanents/creatures on their own, that 3rd one being Burn from Within. I say on their own because technically i could play Mycosynth Lattice, make everything an artifact, and then Vandalblast or do something else that blows up a specific artifact, but i first have to make it an artifact with mycosynth, and mycosynth has to resolve and also not be destroyed or exiled or bounced in response to me casting vandalblast. I can also use mycosynth to make everything an artifact and then use Goblin Welder to force people to sac their stuff, but thats a lot of hoops to jump through.

Blue can just counter something threatening, or return it to your hand and then counter it when you try to cast it again. Blue can even counter stuff that explicitly says "this spell can not be countered" on it. Mindbreak Trap. They can counter when they're tapped out Pact of Negation. And even if your spells do resolve, they probably won't hit what you wanted to take out, because blue can phase its stuff out, blink it, or return it to their own hand. You have a big creature, like, say, a Hydra with X in the casting cost that is technically a 0/0 that enters with x counters on it, blue blink spells become removal, because then the counters fall off and it re-enters as a 0/0 and instantly dies. Blue also has the single best board wipe in the game Cyclonic Rift.

White has an absurd amount of really good removal spells like Path to Exile and other 1cmc white stuff that exiles - not destroys - creatures which is just strictly better than destruction. It also has Disenchant. What can red do vs one of the Nyx gods? nothing. How is it dealing with Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. It's either found a way to pump out at least 4 1/1s every turn or it isn't, and when ulamog hit the field it probably blew up the 1 thing that could pump out those 1/1s. It also has inertion spells like Pacifism

Green has a bunch of that stuff as well, but it just tends to be tied to a creature with an etb effect. Reclamation Sage for instance. It also has Krosan Grip, which actually can't be countered or dealt with by blinking, or even mindbreak trapped. It does struggle with indestructible stuff a little bit, but at least it can make very large blockers that also have reach..

Black has ways to make you sacrifice all your stuff and no shortage of destroy effects, and ways to put a bunch of -1/-1 counters on it, so it even has a way to deal with indestructible stuff.

So i want to give you the situation that forced me to stop playing mono-red. The other players in my group generally didn't play monocolors as much. the only other one was the one with the sheoldred and sidisi decks. the elesh norn guy made his elesh norn deck out of his regular Marath deck. One guy played Karametra to start off with but then built slivers. And one guy played Rafiq while we got used to the game and then went back to Oloro- which included test of endurance and felidar sovereign. The sheoldred, oloro, and slivers player started running Leyline of the Void. I played daretti. When youre playing a mono-red deck that has to use its graveyard to do well, and the game starts with that out, that's awful, but it's made worse by the fact that i literally had no answers to it. It made my commander more a liability than an asset. His ult literally becomes abrogated when that hits the field. Same with containment field, but at least the game didn't start with that out, and the sheoldred player would at least get rid of that for mutual interest. What am i supposed to do as a mono red player about any leyline card, for that matter? So I did the only thing i could do, which is obliterate, O stone, nevinyrals disk, winter orb, blood moon, or hope i draw chaos warp or scour. The problem with chaos warp is that it can backfire. I chaos warped the ashnods altar the marath guy had one time to stop him from going infinite. He topdecked ulamog and won the game. So i basically have to blow my one good spot removal spell on an enchantment that isn't even really a threat, it just stops me from playing my deck with my commander. My only other option was a cheese 2 spell combo that just wins the game if uncountered - Dualcaster Mage and Twinflame. Because my options were limited to oppressive stall and boardwipes, and i have the potential to cast 2 cards for 5 mana and just win the game, the rest of the table comes to hate or fear me. They come to know that my strats involve stall and stax so they always take me out first. There was nothing i could really do. So i went to Hidetsugu. I never once got to tap him in a game. I went to krenko. Same issue. I went to purphoros, and did ok, but still, the lack of enchantment removal and ways to deal with indestructible stuff always felt bad, especially because my opponents had that stuff and had it for cheap. In mono-red, what do i do when someone puts Darksteel Mutation on my purphuros? How many sac outlets or -1/-1 counters are there(that i can put on my own creatures) in red? I got upset about it, especially because in the middle of our play time, the rule about chaos warp changed so i couldn't make them shuffle their commander away anymore. So they got to keep their ways to stop me from getting to do anything with my commander, but i didn't get my way to stop them from using theirs anymore. I understand it was because i was playing the aggro color and because i was a threat, but game after game of not getting to play the game started to drag. So i made a kaalia deck so mean they stopped playing with me. They didn't let me have fun playing pillowfort stax stuff, so i made a deck that was so aggro I usually won before they did anything with their commander, and then they didn't have fun, except for the sliver player who shared a lot of the ideas i had about the state of balance in magic and our local meta. Slivers are aggro and become scary really fast but it's hard to be aggro in a 5 color deck, and he understood how our playgroup evolved to just be more and more punishing to a monored yard deck and was happy to see me having fun playing commander for the first time in a long time. The sliver player and I are the only one who are still friends.

The point of this all is that, in my playgroup, the deciding factor was not usually your ability to make threats or create problems for your opponents. It was your ability to respond to threats and problems. In that department, red is sorely lacking primarily because it doesn't have enchantment removal or a good way to deal with indestructible stuff, or even big creatures for that matter

Is there something I'm just not getting? What are other people's thoughts?

jozef on Main Gruul Deck

2 years ago

Hello. Here are just a couple of recommendations for upgrades: Vandalblast over Reckless Air Strike . Rancor over Sudden Spinnerets . Banefire over Burn from Within

X-Factor11105 on Anarchy Burger

3 years ago

Let's stop praying for wheels and start making the draw happen!

-1 Temple of the False God +1 War Room.

You have plenty of mana here and a low-enough curve not to worry about needing the 2 CMC for the (bad) condition of TotFG. Go draw some cards!

-1 Dwarven Mine +1 Valakut Awakening  Flip

No seriously, go get more cards! Both of these can ETB tapped, and the upside of Awakening is WAY higher than Dwarven Mine. You'll be happy you're making this swap!

-1 Insult / Injury +1 Wheel of Misfortune

Go get more cards! Also, damage someone!

-1 Slagstorm +1 Valakut Exploration

Go get more cards AND damage someone, all in one turn!

-1 Fire Diamond +1 Hedron Archive (whichever you prefer)

Add some more mana to your pool and give yourself more mid and late-game cards!

-1 Burn from Within +1 Runaway Steam-Kin

I just love Steam-Kin in every mono-R deck that wants to cast a whole bunch of instants. Have fun with more explosive turns!

plakjekaas on What, Exactly, is Wrong with …

3 years ago

JeanYass That's because you were never trying to point out that blue is simply not the "2nd best" at creature removal. What you actually said was:

JeanYass says...#19

TriusMalarky: blue is "the" worst color for creature removal.

And

JeanYass says...#23 Omniscience_is_life: they are absolutely playable outside of burn. red is solidly better at removal.

And we went from that to you admitting:

JeanYass says...#31

so what if its 4th best? thats still not 2nd best.

I call that rhetorical progress on my part. Also, I never called you specifically inexperienced. However, I've had a very similar discussion with several inexperienced players who also had a hard time grasping why Pongify is actually good. If you're really playing 3 times as long as I am, I just don't understand why you think leaving a 3/3 behind after dealing with a threat for a single mana at instant speed is worse than taking a full turn off to cast a big enough Burn from Within 2 turns after the threat already started piling up value. Neither do I understand why you do advocate Beast Within while poopooing Pongify , when the similarities are so apparent.

I went back to White to explain why the best removal spells are the best removal spells, and because this thread is about White's (lack of) card quality. Because this is an open forum, anyone might read this, and I like to explain why I think what I think.

The most hilarious part is I'm not even a blue player. I just hate losing to blue, especially when my Ancient Greenwarden turns into a 3/3 green ape creature token, and my opponent still has Counterspell up for my Eternal Witness . How's that for baseless assumptions.

JeanYass on What, Exactly, is Wrong with …

3 years ago

Omniscience_is_life there are plenty of big red spells, like Banefire and Burn from Within. sure blue has a "couple" of things, but red has significantly more total burn spells than blue has ways of dealing with resolved creatures.

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