This Deck Is Also My Other Deck

Commander / EDH Asok_Green

SCORE: 48 | 54 COMMENTS | 6955 VIEWS | IN 23 FOLDERS


Asok_Green says... #1

Okay, question for those watching: is Doubling Season going to put such a big crosshairs on me that I might wish I had a Primal Vigor to cast instead? I know only Doubling Season would let me ultimate Ajani or Eslpeth the turn they come out, or let my leveling creatures level twice as fast, but if it gets itself countered or destroyed and gets me swiftly killed, what good is it? My strategy doesn't require that I ultimate my planeswalkers, anyway. Thoughts?

April 16, 2015 9:04 p.m.

toxicliam says... #2

Hmmmmmm.... Doubling Season does get a ton of hate, and if you manage to resolve it people are going to be coming after you, but Primal Vigor is just not as good. I think I would choose Doubling Season just because it is that little bit better, and also Primal Vigor helps your opponent as well.

April 16, 2015 9:14 p.m.

Asok_Green says... #3

I'll keep it in for now, then. If it gets too much hate, I can always switch.
Thanks, toxicliam!

April 17, 2015 12:42 a.m.

Wainwright says... #4

Great deck, great write up, love the idea of having 1v1 and multiplayer decks built into 1. Gonna be testing it out and see how it goes.

April 17, 2015 1:24 a.m.

Asok_Green says... #5

Okay, another replacement idea for Doubling Season (which does draw lots of hate), Vorel of the Hull Clade. Is a body, works on both my leveling creatures and Jenara, Asura of War, and with this deck's crazy untap potential, he might work even better than Doubling Season can. He doesn't let me ultimate my planeswalkers as soon as they come out, but again, I don't need that, and it's a limitation that might keep him and me out of the crosshairs a few more turns. Thoughts on this change?

April 17, 2015 9:26 a.m.

AzureOctive says... #6

I don't think Maze of Ith works the way you think it does, the creature has to be attacking for it to be a valid target, not just any tapped creature. Still it looks like there's a lot of thought and love put into the deck

April 17, 2015 9:35 a.m.

Asok_Green says... #7

@AzureOctive, Hi! Thanks for the kind words, I did kind of fall in love with this deck while putting it together (I've been at it for more than a year). Re: Maze of Ith, take a look if you would though the user comments saved behind the first update (New Changes April 13, 2015), and read my response to a similar comment by hackerheck. It's not perhaps how Maze of Ith nor Ith, High Arcanist were intended to be used when they were created, but they work both ways very well, and this deck tries to take advantage of both effects.

Thanks for your comment, and please make any suggestions that come to mind!

April 17, 2015 9:51 a.m.

SirFowler says... #8

If you have cards like Maze of Ith, might I suggest Bident of Thassa? It makes sure your opponents creatures attack and you're able to draw by attacking. You could also throw in a Crawlspace or Silent Arbiter to make sure you don't get overwhelmed by a ton of attacking creatures. You might not have room, but those are just a few suggestions.

April 17, 2015 10:34 a.m.

Asok_Green says... #9

@SirFowler, Interesting! I think between Angus and Spike Weaver to fog, Wall of Glare and Entangler to block any number of creatures, and Pariah or Empyrial Archangel + some kind of indestructible (mass or cheated onto Emp Arch) to make it not matter, I don't much worry about being overwhelmed. At any rate, if I'm not ready, I simply wouldn't use the ability.
So it's reusable, it works to draw and get a combo, it taps an opponent's non-vigilance creatures to let me swing in and hit if all I have is Jenara. It has a lot of great things going for it. What would you suggest I take out to make room? Also, how would you compare this card against, say, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician?

Considering how likely it is for me to control a permanent that taps for a draw effect, the combat-damage-draws-a-card aspect holds over, but I can also just use it to untap whatever is most useful at that moment. If three creatures do combat damage and I have a level 6 Kazandu Tuskcaller, that's 6 3/3 elephants. In some situations, drawing 3 cards might be better, in others, the elephants might be, but being able to chose or even do a split of both, that seems valuable. Also, it's a body, and bodies attack, block, hold equipment, tap for convoke, trigger Primitive Etchings, avoid triggering Heartwood Storyteller, etc. So yeah, this is what goes through my head when I look at Bident, but then again, Derevi can't make an opponent attack, and sometimes that would be invaluable. Sometimes that would be game-winning. Can you tell me your experience with either or both?

April 17, 2015 11:19 a.m.

SirFowler says... #10

Don't get me wrong, I love Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. Quick, versatile, and can trigger a combo in a pinch. But it's really only good as a commander, mainly for the commander's "back from the zone" ability. Jenera is versatile both as a commander and a regular creature in any bant deck. If you wanted to do another combo, you could also go Gilded Lotus, Deadeye Navigator, and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, but I feel like that is a cheap way to go.

I feel like Tangle Asp and Jushi Apprentice aren't really necessary in the type of deck. Mainly because you already have Alaborn Zealot and Loyal Sentry. Sure it gives you a better chance, but 3 is not that necessary.

Also, I might suggest Pariah's Shield and Palisade Giant. Pariah is good, but how about a reatachable Pariah that stays on the battlefield even after the creature dies. It also gives you a better chance to attach it to Stuffy Doll. Empyrial Archangel is good, but you can get the same effect for less, which allows you to cast cards that can protect it because it doesn't have shroud.

And lastly, I think you should take City of Brass. Sure, you can add one of any color, but it deal damage when it's tapped, not as an activation cost. If people get cards that make your lands tap for any reason, it could get out of hand quick. I would replace it with Gavony Township. With this type of deck, counters on creatures can really improve the deck immensely.

All in all, I think you should take out Jushi Apprentice for Bident of Thassa, Tangle Asp for either Palisade Giant or Pariah's Shield, and City of Brass for Gavony Township.

April 17, 2015 2:21 p.m.

SirFowler says... #11

Oh, I didn't see you took out Pariah's Shield before, sorry. But I still think you should consider it.

April 17, 2015 2:25 p.m.

Um, I'm not sure that Illusionist's Bracers works with Spike Weaver because it's a mana ability...

April 17, 2015 3:16 p.m.

Asok_Green says... #13

@SirFowler, Hmm. Well, I did really like the idea of attaching Pariah's Shield to some token, letting it take the damage intended for me, then just making another one and equipping the shield to that, but in practice, the shield didn't usually last long enough to do that. Also, I think you have to agree that the 8 mana cost to cast and equip is a little tough to swallow. I could try to spread the cost across two turns, but that gives my opponent(s) another turn to find a way to destroy it or the creature I intend to attach it to, possibly just as I pay the mana to attach it. There's also no way to attach it to a creature when it's not my turn, not even with Alchemist's Refuge, so no combat surprises, and I can't put it on the prized or vital creature of a dangerous opponent, as I can with Pariah (then they don't attack me, so as to avoid killing their own creature).

Tangle Asp is in there because unlike Alaborn Zealot and Loyal Sentry (both of whom I still adore), he plays offense as well as defense. I can put Nemesis Mask on him and destroy an opponent's whole army at once, while at the same time ensuring that any other attacking creatures of mine get through unblocked.

Re: City of Brass, life getting low due to land pain is one thing I almost never have to worry about, thanks to Selvala, Explorer Returned, who is easy to tutor for and strangely beloved by opponents great and small. In a 1-on-1 game, she keeps my life total about balanced, or (with all the untap effects) a little above where I would be without her but with pain-free lands, as, though many of my land cards have the potential to hurt me, I often still have more available pain-free mana than cards I care to cast in a given moment. In multiplayer, she quickly has me swimming in lifegain, which nobody cares about at the time because they're all happily examining their freshly drawn cards. Then, later...
"What's everybody's life totals real quick?"
"22."
"35."
"31."
"59."
"Huh? Oh, right. Selvala."
And if I'm untapping her somehow to use her twice each turn, I can pretty easily afford to pay the 8 life a turn to keep all the cards I draw off Sylvan Library.

I'm of the opinion that shroud makes Empyrial Archangel easier to protect, not harder. It's true I can't cast spells on her to protect her, but opponents can't cast spells on her to remove her, either. Also, Avacyn, Angel of Hope makes her indestructible, or Wargate can put Indestructibility or Shield of the Oversoul onto her, as, with Wargate those spells aren't actually cast and so don't target.

I feel you on Jushi Apprentice  Flip, you can see how skeptical I was of even putting him in, but he's solid. With Illusionist's Bracers on he's just broken. End of your turn, five mana, tap, I draw 9 cards, then I draw 18 cards. Start of my turn, untap, upkeep, draw, five mana, tap, I draw 38 cards, you draw 76 cards. What's that? You don't have 76 cards left to draw? Huh.
And that's without infinite mana or a way to untap him.

All of this taken together must read like a wall of, "no, no, no, I'm always right," but I'm anything but always right. I say these things because that's the reasoning that has made the deck you see. What I really need is for someone, having read the above, to still disagree and explain why. I hope that might be you, and I also I haven't offended you with my defense of the choices I made so far. Anyone can agree with me, that doesn't do me any good. Disagreeing with me is what's really useful and valued by me, and so I hope you will.

April 17, 2015 3:26 p.m.

SirFowler says... #14

FAMOUSWATERMELON A mana ability means an ability that produces mana, not something that requires mana to activate.

April 17, 2015 3:28 p.m.

Asok_Green says... #15

@FAMOUSWATERMELON, Hi! So Spike Weaver's activated abilities both have a mana cost, but a "mana ability," as seen on Illusionist's Bracers and elsewhere, refers specifically to an activated ability that could put mana into your mana pool. So, for example, the activated ability of Llanowar Elves, which does not have a mana cost, results or could result in mana being added to a player's mana pool, and so Illusionist's Bracers would not copy this ability. Also, that ability would not use the stack and could not be responded to. Hope this helps, and thanks very much for taking a look at my deck!

April 17, 2015 3:31 p.m.

Oh, ok, that makes sense.

April 17, 2015 3:38 p.m.

SirFowler says... #17

I still feel like cutting City of Brass for Gavony Township is a good idea. If someone slaps down an Erebos, God of the Dead or Sulfuric Vortex, your chances of gaining life goes out the window. And if someone has a tapping effect, such as War's Toll, it can still hurt. Sure, you have removal, but what's to say he doesn't have some as well.

As for the the Jushi Apprentice, the more you explained it the more I agree. I'm actually thinking of adding it in my mono-blue deck, but I'm not quite sure what to take out. Mind taking a look?http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-04-15-im-a-maniac/

April 17, 2015 4:01 p.m.

Asok_Green says... #18

@SirFowler, Well, how about instead of Gavony Township, which I have but am not real hot on because I need color fixing more than +1/+1 counters (especially if I go through with my plans to cut Doubling Season), how about if instead of that, I change City of Brass to Tendo Ice Bridge? It itself color fixes only once, but comes in untapped and still lets my Reflecting Pool tap for any color, whether or not Tendo still has its charge counter. Plus, more Kamigawa block which, thematically, this deck is starting to lean toward.

April 17, 2015 5:08 p.m.

Asok_Green says... #19

Not worth a full update, but just got the number of infinite mana combos up to 29 and at the same time added some fantastic ways to win that don't need infinite mana. More redundancy and more flexibility at the same time. It's at the very end of the description up there. Gotta run; FNM!

April 17, 2015 7:54 p.m.

SirFowler says... #20

Tendo Ice Bridge would work, since you are able to make more. You could also do Gemstone Mine or Gemstone Caverns as well. You could just keep adding more. Although the mine and caverns have more drawback than the bridge. Yeah, tendo seems like a more viable option.

April 17, 2015 9:05 p.m.

AzureOctive says... #21

Started thinking closer about it before I found where the posts were and figured it had something to do with risking a combat to satisfy the 'attacking creature' part of maze of ith. I gotta say I see it, understand it's a thing, but don't like it. Good to know that it exists in the game so I don't get surprised by it later on. Thanks for the education! _

April 20, 2015 10:07 a.m.

Asok_Green says... #22

@AzureOctive, You're welcome! And as for "risking" a combat, remember that even though we're using Maze of Ith or Ith, High Arcanist in ways they may or may not ever have been intended to be, their intended effect still applies, and so protects anything we put unto combat. I may have to attack with my Argothian Elder, but I don't much have to worry about who I attack or what their defenses are, as the combat-neutralizing effects of Maze of Ith or Ith, High Arcanist will protect him both from blocking creatures and most other combat shenanigans. Attack-state-dependant effects like Condemn or Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile would still be a problem, of course. Speaking of, Brigid is coming to this deck, and bringing a number of friends. Not enough playtesting to make the update yet, but this is going to be the best one yet. And yes, the infinite-mana combo count is going up again. With the next update we might just be edging into competitive territory...

April 20, 2015 11:01 a.m.

AzureOctive says... #23

@Asok_Green, The only other thing (I'm sure you've thought of) is stopping activated abilities with cards like Voidmage Husher and Stifle or Time Stop on the land activated ability. Still, you can do that only so many times :) Good solid deck! It really deserves all the gossip going on.

April 20, 2015 1:25 p.m.

Zapo360 says... #24

Brave the Sands instead of Wall of Glare maybe?

April 24, 2015 11:21 a.m.

I would recommend Gilder Bairn instead of Vorel of the Hull Clade This works better for all permanents (including those planeswalkers) for one more mana. Its also an untap ability, which should give you some interesting synergies.

April 27, 2015 3:43 p.m.

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