Shadow of the Grave

Instant

Return to your hand all cards in your graveyard that you cycled or discarded this turn.

Discussion (48)

ElijahCallahan64 on Kess, Dissident Mage

2 months ago

seshiro_of_the_orochi thank you for the advice!

Originally, I had planned to have Nekusar, the Mindrazer as my commander, but then I accidentally found Kess, Dissident Mage on www.scryfall.com lol, and completely changed my theme to a wheel+spellslinger combo deck, which works really well when you can re-cast cards like Shadow of the Grave

I do like Underworld Dreams , however, it is more of a pick your poison if I have Hullbreacher out. My original questionable idea with Furnace of Rath was that it works very well with Guttersnipe , Cruel Ultimatum or in general any attack.

I could agree with everything else, and don't even know if I will throw in a Fiery Emancipation or Furnace of Rath . I do not own this deck yet, I actually printed this entire thing out about a week ago and had some of the cards, but plan to slowly buy the cards for it replacing the proxies. Thank You again!

SufferFromEDHD on Tergrid Group Thug Discard Stax

4 months ago

MLS91 on Tergrid Group Thug Discard Stax

4 months ago

P.a. I just noticed that Shadow of the Grave that’s some spicy secret sauce you’ve got there, I may take that for use in my own build now. Works real well with Ill-Gotten Gains and Dark Deal

MindBoogaloo on Cheating Made Easy: Ramirez DePietro & Armix

6 months ago

Thanks for your suggestions abby315 & seshiro_of_the_orochi.

Transmute really has one of the strongest synergies with Ramirez; however, I didn't end up adding it for each CMC, because the deck is still in construction and I don't have key cards to tutor for yet. Also, I want to make sure that the card with transmute has a relevant ability. Otherwise, it'll only be a tutor and a waste of a card slot, imo.

• There are some obvious cards I will have to buy/trade for such as: Cranial Plating, Buried Ruin, Unearth, Reconnaissance Mission
• Maybe: Shadow of the Grave, Drake Haven (CMC3 slot is competitive & the 1 mana tax might be hindering my game plan; would like to hear your opinion on that card)

I haven't thought of Dredge cards. Thanks for that suggestion! I think cards with that ability might work best when I have both commanders in play. (probably cutting some cycling cards for Dredge) These are the ones I'm currently considering: Golgari Thug, Necroplasm and Dakmor Salvage. I think I need more cards that recur stuff from my graveyard besides Ramirez. (just in case he gets removed before combat dmg etc.)

What's your opinion on redundant cards? I already have 2 creatures that reduce costs of artifacts and 2 creatures that return artifacts to my hand when they die. How many is enough do you think?

Also looking for cards that synergize well with my commanders and help me recur non-artifact, non-creature cards.

seshiro_of_the_orochi on Cheating Made Easy: Ramirez DePietro & Armix

6 months ago

This list is cool, I like the idea. Some cards you could try are the following:

Dakmor Salvage can put cards into your graveyard and can basically draw you cards with Ramirez. The same goes for Contingency Plan. Also, how about Oblivion Crown for additional commander damage with Ramirez? Finally, Shadow of the Grave seems really powerful.

Massacar on Anje

10 months ago

Since you're doing the Worldgorger combo you might as well include Dance of the Dead as a redundant Animate Dead. Also you should use Sunscorched Desert as that land can win you the game with the worldgorger combo alone.

Simian Spirit Guide, Blood Pet, Jeweled Amulet can be vital mana resources for big turns.

Shadow of the Grave and Unearth can also be handy.

Overall I would recommend lowering your total CMC to below 3 to allow for more reliable explosive plays.

I can give you more suggestions if you like, or you can feel free to check out my own Anje deck (it's on my profile).

StopShot on Help me foolproof this infinite …

1 year ago

@SynergyBuild, Ah well I wanted to leave what kind of deck this would be open-ended so that if it couldn't fit well in my deck it may still serve someone else's deck better. What strikes me about this combo is you could play Ashnod's Altar for , Seasoned Pyromancer for and if you produce two tokens you can cast Nim Deathmantle practically for and still have enough resources to initiate the combo without any additional mana expenditures meaning the combo has the capability to be used with as little as mana total. I feel like this is really low to the ground and may find use in either Legacy (or Modern if Ashnod's Altar is ever printed into that format). Though I haven't played in the Legacy format so perhaps that remark is a bit of a stretch and I'm sure there's loads of reasons to doubt Ashnod's Altar will ever end up in Modern, but having this sort of open-ended conversation I think can serve a lot of good even if its for commander or a different format.

As for my deck I am running Alesha, Who Smiles at Death so . So that does happen to bar me from great suggestions such as Unlife's Thassa's Oracle/Laboratory Maniac suggestion or RambIe's Abundance suggestion. I do want to thank both for bringing everyone's attention to those cards. Also due to the constraints of my deck I want to not run creatures with power 3 or greater and I don't want to run cards with CMC 5 or greater (if I can help it). That said I do want to thank PhotogenicParasympathetic for their card suggestion of Bone Miser and RambIe's suggestion to use Garna, the Bloodflame. Even if these cards don't fit into the constraints of my deck it is wonderful that they were brought up as I feel they actually do the combo a lot of good if you can run them.

I believe the cards suggested that help me the most for my deck are RambIe's suggestion of Shadow of the Grave and most importantly dingusdingo's suggestion to use Library of Leng which I am absolutely kicking myself for, for not being able to think of it around the time I made this thread. Library of Leng as I see it practically answers holes A and B and is so incredibly cheap to cast on top of that. I'm kicking myself because before coming up with this combo I was trying to come up with a two card draw engine using the library as one of the pieces.

I also want to thank dingusdingo and enpc for better explaining how this combo is non-deterministic which better exemplifies why holes A and B are so important to fill. It's also why Library of Leng was such a critical card to be noted as it turns the combo from undeterministic to deterministic.

That all being said however Library of Leng well may bring up a very hazy rules interaction into question that I feel I must have to consult a judge on. If you go onto the Gatherer page for Library of Leng and check the card rulings below on that page it specifies: "Since the card goes directly to the library, the card is not revealed unless the spell or ability requiring the discard specifically says it is."

Because of this ruling the cards discarded aren't revealed, however Seasoned Pyromancer says you can only create tokens based on what cards were discarded. So would this interaction mean that I could discard two land cards, not reveal the fact they are two land cards due to Library of Leng's ruling and then claim the two cards I discarded were actually nonland cards just to produce the tokens? Obviously that scenario wouldn't work, but this begs the question how does this work? Remember the card ruling says the cards aren't revealed unless an effect specifically says to reveal the discarded card and no where does Seasoned Pyromancer say the discarded cards must be revealed because typically the contents of any player's graveyard is common knowledge to everyone. So this effect would only apply to cards such as Nephalia Academy, Noxious Vapors, Cabal Therapy, etc. where reveal is explicitly stated. But I might be wildly misinterpreting this effect as it could also be abusive with cards that have transmute or Seismic Assault where what you discard matters except the rulings for Library of Leng also states: "You can’t use the Library of Leng ability to place a discarded card on top of your library when you discard a card as a cost, because costs aren’t effects." Transmute and Seismic Assault use the discarded card as a cost, but Seasoned Pyromancer doesn't so is this a blind spot in the rules?

But excluding what I just mentioned there Library of Leng is probably the best answer for countering Holes A and B so far, but it's still not a 100% perfect solution. There's always the risk of running into a massive land block before drawing into it and there's also the concern of if your deck has an odd number of cards, then if its the bottom card of your library you'd need some additional effect to draw into it as drawing two cards at a time would cause you to deck out and lose the game before you could even cast it. While I'm fully aware both effects are still very unlikely they do exist and that probability is a non-zero entity even if for it being very unlikely.

One card I'm already running in my deck that may help mitigate one of those issues however is Conjurer's Bauble which I can use to guarantee the bottom card of my library won't be the Library of Leng. And if I choose not to put a card on the bottom of my library, that can trip can be used to turn a library with an odd number of cards in it into a library with an even number of cards in it. It's also helpful in the event I mill either it or Elixir of Immortality into my graveyard whether by some dredge effect or through milling caused by an opponent from earlier in the game. I thought I'd bring everyone's attention to Conjurer's Bauble as the cheap cost and can trip makes it an accessory to this combo that won't be a dead draw in the event you don't have the combo out.

RambIe on Help me foolproof this infinite …

1 year ago

Thinking about my own words i guess you havn't seen me play so i will make a final attempt explaining how i would actually fire this with Abundance

I would know my own deck so lets say I'm running my casual template of 30 lands, 25 creatures, 20 instants, 10 artifacts, 10 sorcery, and 5 enchantments

I would first look at my board state lets say i just have these 4 perms and idk 8 lands
I would then review my gy lets say i have 2 spells and 2 fetch lands
Then i would check my hand and lets say there is 3 spells
well i would know that i am running a 30/70 build
(70 - 4 battlefield, - 2 gy, - 3 hand, and -1 commander)
(30 - 8 battlefield, -2 gy) i would then know that i have 60 nonland cards and 20 land cards left in my deck

so step one i would play the combo out normally announcing non land as my replacement so that everyone could see how it works and give everyone a chance to respond
i would then announce that i am going to repeat this process 29 more times to create a total of 30 1/1 tokens
i would then reveal 58 non land cards through the deck, choose 3 to hand and discard 58 cards
at this point in time i would have a potential of 60 colorless mana and my choice of any 3 cards from my deck
my first choice would be to cast Shadow of the Grave
what happens next would depend on the deck but if that spell resolves i can promise its game