Grave Betrayal

Enchantment

Whenever a creature you don't control dies, return it to the battlefield under your control with an additional +1/+1 counter on it at the beginning of the next end step. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Arena	Legal
Block Constructed	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Gladiator	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Historic	Legal
Historic Brawl	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Modern	Legal
Modern Beyond Horizons	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Pioneer	Legal
Planar Constructed	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (51)

ChocolatePuma on Toshiro Umezawa

2 months ago

Profet93 Playing the deck has been a very unique experience - having an open board most of the time and cards that accelerate the gameplan at the cost of life creates a glass cannon that either results in an instant win, or a suspenseful game where I'm hoping one piece of a combo doesn't get nuked off the table. My playgroup is wise to the deck's tricks by now, but I always manage to pull a surprise win every now and then at my LGS - the fun of having so many wincons! My biggest struggle with this deck has been balancing how fast I can get to my wins without tutors or less complex combos; the thrill of the setup is the real payoff. I've been considering swapping out Opposition AgentGC with something less oppressive, and possibly replacing Grave Betrayal with Matzalantli, the Great Door  ^Flip for that draw you mentioned. Thank you for your suggestions!

zelous666 on The Masochism Tango

9 months ago

I've been playing around with it and adding more mana ramp here and there. I'm basically now at the point where I need to decide on whether to play the lower mana cost cards at all or replace them with more ramp and just go for gold so to speak. It helps that getting out Teysa as well as a number of the other big mana costs pretty much put a stop to the game until the opponent gets an answer for it so gunning for them is really tempting. I've tried the delayed storage counter lands in the past and have a special hatred for them. They always seem to come out at the wrong time when i wished i could have had just a basic land. Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus are good options for the mana curve and the more I look at Skyclave Relic the more I like it. I was planning on just throwing more Orzhov rocks in but those are better options.

Grave Betrayal is... awesome with Teysa. That's going on the top of the list of "want in the deck". I already had Pariah in my (admittedly huge) maybe list and it's also at the top of that want in the deck bad pile. If i could attach it to Stuffy Doll... oof. Gift of Doom looks like it would make a good upgrade to my Indestructibility just straight out.

The main theme I was going for with this deck was hurting yourself for bonuses and once your life total reaches critical switching it out with an opponent and killing them off. Lots of cards that treat life totals like toys and a general BDSM theme. The name of the deck comes from the title of a song that was released in 1959 by a popular comedian I enjoy. As soon as I saw the artwork for this version of Teysa I thought, "That's who he was singing to!" I know having a commander that has protection from creatures is amazeballs for doing commander damage but I intentionally avoided going the route of relying on her for that. She's more there as a way to stop opponents from attacking and for providing another way to finish opponents after life switching. I also avoid using infect as much as possible in any of my decks just as a matter of (definitely misguided) principle.

DreadKhan on The Masochism Tango

9 months ago

Just some 'bad' ideas to consider (I have some irregular views on ramp, to be polite), Subterranean Hangar is ramp that uses a land drop, very handy with a 7 mana Commander, either to get them out or recast them, Fountain of Cho is the White option. I threw cards like this in a deck on a lark, I was pretty impressed how they can play out in a deck that uses fairly splashy effects... this brings me to Grave Betrayal, this card is politely described as 'good with your Commander'. Another option to consider is bigger ramp, maybe Thran Dynamo, which takes you from 4 mana to enough to cast your Commander next turn, seems decent? Maybe Gilded Lotus, which takes you from 5 to 8, but also gives you coloured mana? Worn Powerstone is also interesting, it's not a great card but it's also not unplayable, wildly worse Sol Ring is also a good enough card, it just looks bad because Sol Ring exists. Another choice worth looking at that is relevant because of it's ceiling is Skyclave Relic, the kicker is a bunch, but that much mana next turn is advantageous. I get that your deck is trying to be fairly nimble, with lots of lower to the ground ramp, but I feel like with a 7 mana Commander that does this much you really want her out as quickly and consistently as possible.

If you like Indestructible sources, I think Gift of Doom is the best ever printed, Morph is incredibly hard to interact with once it's in play, and I'd like to think you'll have some sac fodder. It's also a combat trick fwiw, you've got Vigilance, and if they've got a big attacker this can deal with them and prevent certain types of removal, and it can blank stuff at the fastest speed possible.

Since your Commander has Protection from Creatures, I'd love to see if Inquisitor's Flail would work in here? By itself it turns your Commander into a 3 turn clock vs any opponent, and she blocks better since she'll deal double damage. It's less resources than Fireshrieker, but it completely stacks with it fwiw, if you get two doubles you're a 2 turn clock. Come to think of it I think I'd run Duelist's Heritage over Fireshrieker if you have access to White. Another 'out there' idea, but Grafted Exoskeleton plays well with your Commander, it turns her into a 2 turn clock by itself, and your Commander becomes a pretty nasty blocker too, and it obviously would play well with doublers. If you've got Protection from Creatures, you could try Pariah on your Commander to drag out games. It's worse if people play Red Burn effects in your area, but at least life loss effects don't interact with it, just damage. If you have Indestructible on something then Pariah looks even better.

I hope some of these ideas are useful, Big Teysa is a nifty Commander to see in action!

DreadKhan on lonely goth girl

11 months ago

Well, my Pavel Maliki deck liked to use a few interesting sources of evasion, Shizo, Death's Storehouse, Dauthi Embrace, Mask of Griselbrand, and possibly Scavenged Brawler. I use these in conjunction with a fairly large number of board wipes that help thin the board and help get in for Commander damage. Flying, Shadow, Fear, and Trample are all useful ways to get in for damage, even if the opponent has potential blockers, they might not count. If your Voltron is big enough to try for the win you might try Mandate of Abaddon, this can easily let you one shot someone if Teysa's power is high enough (and nobody is retaliating vs you). You could also try Promise of Loyalty, this clears out almost all the creatures while also preventing the survivors from coming after you.

Not sure why I didn't think of it earlier, but despite people making fun of it Grave Betrayal seems like it'd have some synergy with your Commander, not only do you get the 1/1, you'd also get their creature!

Cmi1103 on Think Fast, Marchesa!

1 year ago

Great deck! If you are consistently implementing the meta of stealing opponents creatures and making the your own, I would suggest looking at Grave Betrayal as a very fun card to play. I used to run it in my deck The Black Rose Never Dies. But ultimately steered away from stealing creatures myself as it didn't work out well in my pod (for some reason people don't like that XD).

DreadKhan on Meren

1 year ago

I suspect you've probably got enough creatures to look at Lurking Predators, it's ramp and card draw rolled into one package, you just need to run a lot of creatures. If you like big reanimation effects their is Grave Betrayal, this loves your various forced sacrifice effects. Coffin Queen and Hell's Caretaker are some lower to the ground reanimators that might be interesting, Queen can also reanimate your opponent's stuff. Demon of Dark Schemes is a weird recursion option, though it can go infinite, usually with creatures that make tokens via ETB. I've always loved having stuff like Dawntreader Elk and Diligent Farmhand in my Meren deck, they find a land without further input and end up in the graveyard when they do it, so you can recur them if that's the best option. I like Silverglade Pathfinder as both a clunky source of ramp that lets you discard creatures, it might not be powerful enough for your build though!

Mave on endles whispers edh

1 year ago

I read the thread when I tried to look up the rules for the cards which is kinda important for EDH Endless Whispers. (I plan on including it in Obeka)

In a 1v1 match it mostly tries to get the best creature of an opponent while donating negative effects. But in commander it becomes a game of "hot potato" where you can never be sure who gets the creatures of another player but you can decide what "garbage" you donate. That is the gist of what the deck will do in a multiplayer game.

Depending on what you give away you may want cards that can counter triggered abilities in case ove Leveler, Sky Swallower, Boldwyr Heavyweights, Eater of Days, Hunted Wumpus, Inverter of Truth, Dust Elemental, Avatar of Discord, Indentured Djinn Ebon Drake Plague Reaver Master of the Feast Tempting Wurm, the haunted one like Hunted Troll, Hunted Dragon,Hunted Dragon, Hunted Lammasu or Hunted Phantasm. Personally I would use Obeka, Brute Chronologist to counter the ETB of the creatures you play by ending the turn and then giving them to an opponent. But that only works for when the creature with negative effect enters the battlefield during your turn. But it is a great plan B in case you don't have Endless Whispers to give your opponents creatures from the list above by simply playing an 8/8 trample for {2}{R}{R} then ending the turn before the trigger resolves.

Other options are Jon Irenicus, Shattered One or Blim, Comedic Genius both want your opponents to control your creatures. If you just want the effect of giving your opponents negative ETBs you can also build a deck on The Beamtown Bullies. But including Endless Whispers in this deck can backfire by giving you one of the negative effects if the creature dies. And it also is hard to let e.g. Leveler enter the battlefield to donate it through endless whispers. What helps with that may be to manifest a creature with a negative effect with e.g. Scroll of Fate. You can also manifest creatures with negative effect from your library but that is a bit more random.

To prevent getting creatures with negative effects from your opponents you to gain hexproof. There are plenty of effects giving yourself hexproof in white but I couldn't find a good commander for that. To gain hexproof yourself in a non white deck you most likely need Orbs of Warding which may be the way to go to prevent opponents to return the hot potato to you. Which is what I do in Obeka (sadly I don't have any list online of that deck).

If you like Endless Whispers to take your opponent cards however you might rather want to play Grave Betrayal or Lim-Dul the Necromancer. Overall it can still be used as a politicle tool. Especially if you donate one of the Haunted once you can build a pact with another player that you always trade them with each other to get more and more tokens.

Talking tokens it is also possible to put Endless Whispers in Grismold, the Dreadsower which gets into the direction of Dagger Burn known through Rampaging Ferocidon, Trespasser's Curse, Massacre Wurm, Slaughter Specialist and e.g. Illness in the Ranks/Virulent Plague. Whenever you donate Hunted Troll to an opponent or it enters the battlefield you let the 1/1 faeris directly die causing Grismold to trigger and also cards like Poison-Tip Archer.

It is also possible to play with effects like Plaguecrafter, Abyssal Gorestalker, Gravelighter. The player who gets the creature has to sacrifice one creature less and choses who sacrifice one creature less the next turn. But as long as you profit from death triggers via e.g. enchantments or artifacts you will profit most from your favourite card.

I also like Rakdos the Defiler to use Endless Whisper. After all one can donate some negative effects and if the opponent sacrifices creatures they have to donate them to someone else. Altough that also works better in 1v1.

I hope the explanation helps to find the right deck to play Endless Whispers in Commander.

EchoSpice on The Dark Brotherhood - Rogues & Riches

1 year ago

NV_1980 great suggestions! I would definitely do that, but ive already got a different deck dedicated to graveyard theft :D

Grave Betrayal is definitely going in Teenybones steels ur tings >:) though!