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Bloodline Keeper Discussion
3 days ago
I run vampires myself, so I'll try to help the best I can, deck if your interested Modern vampires of the city . First I recommend dropping all removal and replacing with Feast of Blood and Go for the Throat . recommend picking up some of the older lords if you go mono black Vampire Nocturnus is a good idea. if not go with Captivating Vampire or Bloodline Keeper Flip . other vampires to check out are Gatekeeper of MalakirBlood Seeker and Pulse Tracker. I have a few other suggestions if you're interested but they're a bit more exspensive thoughmodern-vampires-of-the-city-3
3 days ago
yeah I wanted to use Wall of Limbs as a card to scare my opponent and also use it as a defender. Also My plan with Bloodline Keeper Flip is to just get more creatures onto the field so that i can use the tokens as meat shields.
3 days ago
Much more concise, and the win con is much clearer and more attainable. The deck definitely has more consistency. Just a few suggestions, and at this point its more down to personal taste and how streamlined and optimized you want the deck to be, since you already have an attainable win con.
Bloodline Keeper Flip is a great card and can be what is called a "good stuff" card, or a card that can be good on its own. However, it only really shines in a Vampire tribal, where you have a lot of vampires to benefit from its flipped form Lord of Lineage Flip. That being said, it could provide an additional threat and maybe alt win con for the deck.
Wall of Limbs is okay, but its mana ability costs way to much for you to be able to consistently use it. It is a good defensive option for you though. There are a lot of different cards you could add in, but they kind of depend on what route you want to take the deck in.
I'd also suggest adding some removal like Doom Blade or Murder, just to deal with threats. Additionally there are cards like Tribute to Hunger and Tendrils of Corruption that are less reliable removal but give you life.
1 week ago
I don't think anyone's trying to make you mad, and I agree about keeping Bloodline Keeper Flip compared to all those other vampires the only card I could see being an upgrade over it is Drana, Liberator of Malakir but it's legendary so you wouldnt want to draw more then 1. The main thing is the Springleaf Drum it's to slow unless your playing affinity, that's why you should replace it for either 1-2x lands and 2x Path to Exile because you can target your own creature to get a land if you need to and it will help you stop Tarmogoyf wich can get very big fast. If I were you I would play test the deck against other competive modern decks with and without the changes and then make a dission on them.
1 week ago
PLEASE TELL ME WHICH MODERN DECKS CAN WIN CONSISTENTLY ON TURN 3!
(I am not asking which decks can win with the perfect first 8 cards before turn 3, like 8x bolts... as reality doesn't give you the perfect draw and topdeck)
Coming up with things like "modern decks win on turn 3" is what makes me angry and be offensive, where do you get information like this? Name it!
Either you are misguided, or you are just trying to anger me with this level of idiocy.
I could ditch Springleaf Drums, but i couldn't put 4 spells in their place, i would need to add some lands (if i don't want to be mana screwed that is). So at best i would gain 2 slots, however i would access mana slower, and i depend on early mana. It enables plays like turn 4 transformed Bloodline Keeper Flip, enables extorting from spells and creatures, enables casting 2x 3cmc spells on t5. It has a lot of upsides, and 2 targeted discard can't really make up for the lose of them.
I am sceptical about Urge to Feed, while it surely kills, it doesn't do anything to creatures with toughness greater than 3 (which is a thing in modern when it comes to win conditions). Its ability to add +1/+1 counters to vampires can only be employed to win more, otherwise (since its a sorcery) i will lose blockers for having +1/+1 counters.
No Bloodline Keeper Flip doesn't die to things you mentioned, it can to Lightning Bolt and will to Path to Exile, but not to:
- Abrupt Decay - since he costs
- Engineered Explosives in theory could kill it, but that requires paying 4 different colored mana into it (also 4 color decks are not the norm in modern).
- Ratchet Bomb just takes an unrealistic amount of time to kill, without some way to put extra counters on it.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is not a tribal lord. Its a creature with a inbuilt Blade of the Bloodchief. As such he doesn't depend on other tribal creatures - nor does it gain extra value from them.
Speaking of risky investments Olivia Voldaren should be called the mana dump of the century. When she is casted she dies to bolt, one turn later she doesn't, but still dies to every other creature removal.
She is very good for clearing the board from X/1 creatures, but terrible for anything else, God forbid stealing creatures. Yes you can steal a creature with her for a whopping SEVEN mana, but sadly as she dies those creatures will fall back to their owners hands. Also she is legendary meaning 3 or less copies.
I can get behind the idea of Vampire Nocturnus it has a really nice synergy with both Blood Artist & Vampire Nighthawk. Its has the same power level as Bloodline Keeper Flip. But i fancy the latter one.
Both have their benefits. But the latter is widely regarded as the "casual" card. We could debate which is better, but other things 1st.
(As a side note, trying to bolt Bloodline Keeper Flip is stupid, just like casting it before you can transform it)
Why would any sane person try to play Falkenrath Aristocrat in a vampire TRIBAL deck (not an aristocrat deck with some vamppire creatures)? It needs humans to be played to its fullest potential, and benefits greatly from creatures that can be sacced to it multiple (or infinite) times.
Please tell me why is this card any good for vampire tribal decks.
Is instant speed better than gaining 4 life? (Feast of Blood vs. Terminate)
Modern isn't exactly full of regenerating creatures.
While this deck has 21-24 vampire (+2 mutavault) in it (3 of which need to be exiled, or killed twice).
1 week ago
Bloodline Keeper Flip is too slow and even as a lord he dies to Abrupt Decay or Ratchet Bomb/Engineered Explosives. For your 4 mana vamps you want either Vampire Nocturnus, Olivia Voldaren, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet or Falkenrath Aristocrat.
1 week ago
I find it refreshing that you are one of the people who actually apologise. Very refreshing.
Perhaps i even had a subconcious aggro like thinking about your deck. I didnt think i had that.
The thing is simply this: i get that you dont want to race them. I also get that you want the game to drag out for a longer time until you can overrun them.But as i said i think the inclusion of said cards is just too conditional for them to really shine. E.g. Feast of Blood as stated you can turn it on t3. If you get it to cast against lets say burn it is of course a major swing, but the problem is getting it cast. I get that you dont try to race them, but they race you...often t3 is the end of the game, so you need the best removal you can get, not because you want the game to end t3...but your opponent for sure. That's why i said it is too slow and conditional.
I will add "in my opinion"...to that thought. And all other thoughts coming up.
Same with the Bloodline Keeper Flip i get it can create a major advantage and multiple token and that's what you wanna do. I just think that it works too slow for the meta as it stands. Modern is blistering fast and aggro as can be. Cheap removal is literally everywhere. Creatures die left and right. To get multiple creatures on the board you either need to be a Weenie, Eldrazi or Aether Vial deck.
The tap ability to generate token is only relevant if the Keeper lives for a turn. To make him a lord, you need vampires on the board. But thats where i see the dilemma coming. Either preserve your life total of your creatures. And that's again where Kolaghan's Command grips. Even if you can get a creature back and shock your opponent, i just dont think 5-6 mana is worth it (factoring the casting cost of the creature in) i think you can do better on t4-6.just as a thought: would you rather play Command, get back Carrier Thrall, play it and remove an opposing creature for an amount of 5 mana or would you rather cast Thoughtseize and then play Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet? i just think that some amount of targeted discard, fast, crisp removal and overall value vampires like Kalitas, that need no conditions to be advantageous to you will help you out more than you think they do.Kalitas gains you life, makes your removal into chump blockers and cannot get bolted. And he can get buffed by Stromkirk Captain.
I see you've exchanged the Forked Bolts to Lightning Bolts. I think they will satisfy you more. Please do an update in the future concerning them. I really am curious about your view on the matter after some testing.
Also please just try something like this (just for a few matches):
- try moving 3Kolaghan's Command into the sideboard
- replace them with the Stromkirk Captain, Cavern of Souls and Gatekeeper of Malakir from your sideboard
- cut 2 Bloodline Keeper Flip to get in 2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
- cut the Springleaf Drums completely and the forth Kolaghan's Command for 3 Inquisition of Kozilek + 2 Thoughtseize or 1 Thoughtseize 1 Blackmail (you want to go long, this is good for long games)
- cut 2 Feast of Blood and get in 2 Urge to Feed this is more versatile and you still get synergy with vampires that builds up to the late game.
This is just something i think would do the deck something good while still be a deck to go for the grindy long game/ eventually beats down with vamps.
If it really is not helping you/you dont see any value in those suggestions. Well...that happens.I really am in a mood now for vamps again. Perhaps i try do make a deck myself and link it to you if you wont mind.
1 week ago
Kolaghan's Command is in the deck for its ability get back important creatures from grave to hand, while removing threat, hitting, face, or forcing the opponent to discard. If that function is not neccessary, it still is not a dead card.
I don't play it in mainboard because i hope to 2 for 1 affinity, or use it as blightning.
I don't assume my lords will survive late game.
I assume that i draw and resurrect enough of them, to have one on the battlefield.
While Bloodline Keeper Flip is a bigger investment than Heir of Falkenrath Flip, they payoff is bigger too.
Sure casting 4 cmc spells is a risk.
Just like having a deck consisting mainly of 1 / 2 cmc spells is a risk because it relies to heavily on the big (but rapidly declining) number of cards in your hand at the beginning of game, or the existence of things like Chalice of the Void.
(Also the above mentioned artifact tends to disturb deck that rely too heavily on cheap removal to solve all of their problems.)
Comparing Bloodline Keeper Flip to Bitterblossom is not that mind blowing - both provide flyer tokens that are in size for the mana investment. While keeper has a body which can be more easily killed, it can provide a boost that has no analogue on the blossom, also having a body can be a benefit when it comes to combat.
Yeah its terrible that creatures boost each other, no worse happend in history.
Yes of course its conditional.
But when one plans to win with creature damage its better if creatures increase each others effectiveness, instead of choosing creatures that don't grow exponentially in power (with the numbers of creatures you have), just because you lose the said benefits if they get removed.
To be honest after some explanation i think i get your perspective. At first i really thought you were just trying to get a raise out of me - so i apologise for the tone.You seem to view this deck from a pretty aggro-like mindset. and i agree its a terrible aggro deck.. no.. its worse than terrible. Its completely useless as an aggro deck.
If i would expect that the game end on t4, i myself wouldn't run spells with big costs, creatures that rely on each others presence, or removal that cost more than necessary.
But i run removal that costs more because it enables staying in game after t4. I know i can't race infect, i don't try to. Nor do i want to race burn. I play spells that deny important aspects of their gameplan.
With tactic like this having ways to gain life is crucial, to be able to stabilise after the damage aggro can dish out in the 1st few turns.
Turn 4 flipped Bloodline Keeper Flip.
Beside that they are useful for color fixing, and creating additional mana eariler, than if i would use only lands as mana sources. Since i don't have much 1 cmc spells, it can be cast at turn 1 without much regret, and will generate benefits till the end of the game, as most people think its shit, and don't waste removal on it.
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