Bloodline Keeper; using his activated ability.

Asked by Pheardemons 4 years ago

I couldn't find this answer anywhere online, but maybe I didn't look in the right places. My question is Bloodline Keeper  Flip can be flipped into Lord of Lineage by paying one black mana, but if the ability is activated when Bloodline Keeper  Flip is tapped and more than once can I tap Lord of Lineage to add a vampire before if flips back to Bloodline Keeper  Flip? Needless to say can I tap Bloodline Keeper  Flip before it flips back to Lord of Lineage?

Boza says... #1

Basically, no.

Tapped or untapped is a so called "status" of a card:

110.6. A permanents status is its physical state. There are four status categories, each of which has two possible values: tapped/untapped, flipped/unflipped, face up/face down, and phased in/phased out. Each permanent always has one of these values for each of these categories.

  1. If you activate the ability of Bloodline Keeper more than once, all activations after the first will do nothing, the card is will no longer be Bloodline Keeper (BK) by the time they resolve.

  2. Transforming BK will not change its status to untapped. It is still the same permanent only its status (with regards to face-up/face-down) and relevant characterics (name, mana cost, abilities, P/T, etc.) have changed. The fact that it was tapped previously does not change.

  3. Once transformed, Lord of Lineage has no way (without outside interference such as Momentary Blink) to turn back to Bloodline Keeper.

  4. You can tap BK while the ability to transform him is still on the stack, but I do know what this achieves - the activated abilities of each face are the same.

July 27, 2015 3:50 a.m.

FancyTuesday says... Accepted answer #2

@Boza: Pheardemons worded it weirdly and it took a long minute for me to realize what he was asking, but in regards to points 1 and 3 what he's asking is what happens when he puts Bloodline Keeper  Flip's second activated ability on the stack multiple times, which will flip him back and forth. From Gatherer:

Activating Bloodline Keeper's last ability multiple times will cause it to transform into Lord of Lineage, then back again, and so on.

All self-references in abilities are actually saying "this object," and since it is not a new object the ability on the stack still reads "this object transforms" and sees it. But as you point out his status does not reset, so there's no real advantage to be gained.

Though it very rarely matters, transforming cards aren't changing face up/face down status. They are always considered face up and cannot be turned face down once in play, though they may enter the battlefield face down.

701.25c Although transforming a permanent uses the same physical action as turning a permanent face up or face down, they are different game actions. Abilities that trigger when a permanent is turned face down wont trigger when that permanent transforms, and so on.

711.8 If an effect allows a player to cast a double-faced card as a face-down creature spell, or if a double-faced card enters the battlefield face down, it will have the characteristics given to it by the rule or effect that caused it to be face down. That card remains hidden, using either a face-down checklist card or opaque sleeves. See rule 707, Face-Down Spells and Permanents.

711.8a While face down, a double-faced permanent cant transform. If it is turned face up, it will have its front face up.

711.9 Double-faced permanents cant be turned face down. If a spell or ability tries to turn a double-faced permanent face down, nothing happens.

711.7 When a double-faced permanent transforms, it doesn't become a new object. Any effects that applied to that permanent will continue to apply to it after it transforms.

July 27, 2015 4:21 a.m.

Boza says... #3

With that small Gatherer correction from FancyTuesday (thanks for that one, it is a pretty weird interaction), anything else is unchanged - there is no real advantage to be gained as the card does not untap when it transforms.

July 27, 2015 5:02 a.m.

stevenwolph says... #4

no, its the same creature so it would stay taped

July 27, 2015 11:39 a.m.

Pheardemons says... #5

Thank you all for the answers. I'm sorry I worded it weirdly and if it confused anyone.

July 27, 2015 7:07 p.m.

This discussion has been closed