M13 speculation based on Avacyn Restored
General forum
Posted on April 16, 2012, 12:19 p.m. by DeckBuilder345
I wanted to see what people are thinking what we are seeing in Avacyn Restored will actually mean for what will be printed in M13. My prediction is that the titans will NOT be reprinted in M13. Too many finishers being printed in avacy restored imo to have the titans reprinted.
I think they might do the 5 swords in place of the titans. I'm probably wrong but that is just what I'd like to see, also do you think they will reprint Tarmogoyf?
April 16, 2012 1:44 p.m.
DARK_r3ck0n1ng says... #4
Well, wizards themselves have said that they are not reprintng the titans in m13
April 16, 2012 1:45 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #5
Titans probably won't be released again. It would be the third time in a row if they did.
Gold cards will be seen.
6 planeswalkers One of which being Nicol Bolas As to what planeswalkers? Probably the same jace, chandra and garruk from m12 and maybe two different ones in the black and white spots.
New mythic cycle of awesomeness (ie titan replacements)
same allied lands as the previous three sets.
Probably a cantrip that rearranges cards on the top of the deck. Perhaps a watered down Brainstorm of some kind.
April 16, 2012 2:16 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #6
lol at the swords comment. I highly doubt wizards will be reprinting swords anytime soon. especially with three of them still in standard. They're crazy good and I just don't see them sticking around for ravnica.
April 16, 2012 2:17 p.m.
Arachnarchist says... #7
I'd like to see the dual lands get replaced with something different, maybe the allied fetchlands from Onslaught, or the man-lands from worldwake would be good. But it seems unlikely.
April 16, 2012 2:46 p.m.
DeckBuilder345 says... #8
No way they release Tarmogoyf in a core set. He warps the format around himself, and i just can't ever see him being printed in any set that was standard legal. I do think they will find a way to reprint him some how to take the bite off the current price for him or end up banning him, but no way in heck he is in M13 or any standard legal set imo.
Everyone seems to pretty strongly believe titans won't be back so the question becomes what will they do to make the new mythics in M13? I am with rckclimber777 that swords seem extreemely unlikely. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some blinking action in m13 though but I doubt that will come at the mythic level. Let us assume that they aren't finishers because it looks like we have a lot of good finishers already, where else could they put the mythics in M13 that one of each color could get one?
April 16, 2012 2:51 p.m.
I would love to see a Rancor reprint!!! I thought they were going to leave Frost Titan, Inferno Titan, and Grave Titan though...
April 16, 2012 3 p.m.
first of all, let me say I have never had the chance to play with or against Tarmogoyf but apparently hes pretty good (I am underselling, don't troll). Second of all, any card that has a price tag like his is not going to be reprinted in a core set simply because it makes zero sense. If your argument is that cards in core sets have reached prices and values close to what his is now, then that is because WotC didn't intentionally reprint a card whos base value was automatically well over $50.
Supply and demand can make that happen to a card printed, but it generally happens when someone at a starcity event or a GP plays it and then they get sold like hot cakes. Tarmogoyf...not happening.
I would also like to say good riddance to the titans. The best titans see the least play, and the brainsless, check box to win titans (aka Sun Titan and Primeval Titan) steal all the thunder and ruin standard. They simply can't reprint Primeval Titan AGAIN, because it would be like 3 straight blocks that have a top tier deck which solely runs on land. If they reprint it, WotC should just rename the game Risk, and see if you get the Primetime in your opening hand and then you get to fight with your resources. I can understand why Frost Titan has a $.96 price tag because of all the Hexproof creatures which are seeing play and are so prevalent, but Frost Titan is SO good, he has evasion on your opponents spells, hes a 6/6 body for blue, and he taps stuff down.
The only reason Primetime gets the lime light is because people are lazy; forgive me what I meant to say was that they lack the creativity to come up with their own ideas. Re-hashing VALAKUT, come on...oh cool you can produce more mana than any other deck can possibly deal with to slow you down. even when Primeval Titan comes into play you bump up to 8 lands, not to mention the fact that until then you a searching your deck for a basic land until then, so primetime hits the table and you have everything you need to win with Inkmoth Nexus and Kessig Wolf Run.
Forgive my rant, I think that with the past being focused on artifacts, and the evidence is in M12 with the reintroduction of Mesa Enchantress coupled with that absolutely WICKED angel, Bruna, Light of Alabaster.
April 16, 2012 3:40 p.m.
"Mesa Enchantress coupled with that absolutely WICKED angel, Bruna, Light of Alabaster."
That isn't a combo.
You have to cast for Mesa to trigger, and the angel "puts" them on the battlefield, not casting. They would be nice, I guess, in the same deck...
April 16, 2012 5:49 p.m.
Why so much hate for Titans? I love them, and would not be disappointed to see them back another time, even though I admit it is highly unlikely.
April 16, 2012 6:16 p.m.
Mana Leak is probably also getting the boot, to be replaced by Essence Scatter and Negate. With titans gone Wizard's will might reprint Baneslayer Angel, and other like minded finishers.
April 16, 2012 7:44 p.m.
The only reason Mana Leak should be removed is to replace it with Counterspell.
April 16, 2012 7:45 p.m.
I doubt they will reprint counterspell...far too good.
April 16, 2012 9:27 p.m.
Actually, it's not. Modern desperately needs it, and it with the unreliable mana bases in Standard, it won't be that good there. But, yeah I don't have high hopes for it. I was just stating that there is no logical reason not to reprint Mana Leak, just like there is no reason not to reprint Oblivion Ring.
April 16, 2012 10:34 p.m.
Who thinks madness might become the redid ability for M13?
April 16, 2012 10:44 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #18
yea I honestly can't see them not reprinting mana leak. If blue loses counterspells like mana leak, then you cripple control. Mana leak will be in unless they give blue Counterspell... one could always hope.
I can see Baneslayer Angel making a comeback. I mean angelic destiny filled her spot in m12, but with avacyn and the rest of the angels she'll fit in nicely.
I second the flicker ability. Hopefully a couple more take control similar to Act of Treason. Even Bazaar Trader would be fun!
Mythic cycle for m13... hmmm.... well we know 5 planeswalkers and bolas. My thoughts here are 5 mythic (possibly Legendary) Creatures that are Gold! From the rumors floating around it seems m13 is going to have several gold cards in it and why not with WotC trying to drum up commander/edh. So 5 legendary creatures in guild colors or alara colors. Each with strong abilities but not huge bodies. I agree they're gonna want some of the finishers in Innistrad to actually be used.
April 16, 2012 10:46 p.m.
DeckBuilder345 says... #19
Wizards doesn't like Counterspell they like Cancel and so it is highly unlikely they would ever reprint counterspell it was just too good.
April 16, 2012 11:08 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #20
"But I being poor have only my dreams, I spread my dreams under your feet. Tread softly for you tread on my dreams."
Let's just say if Wizards suddenly had a change of heart, there would be a great deal of rejoicing. lol.
Albeit one of my local stores just recently had a playset of the Counterspell for like $3. So I can actually say that I own a playset of the beautiful card. I think they're ice age, but I'd have to check. I'm currently devising a mean deck to play in casual that runs that Skullclamp, Brainstorm, and Swords to Plowshares haven't decided what else yet. Still thinking about it.
April 16, 2012 11:16 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #21
All cards that should be released in m13!!!!!!!! especially Skullclamp. We'll play nice honest!! :)
April 16, 2012 11:17 p.m.
Counterspell is not too good. Not by a longshot. The only reason it was discontinued is because inexperienced players tend to hate control, and it was a deterrent to new players. (It's not just blue control, if you lead off with Duress, Hymn to Tourach, Hypnotic Specter, it would be just as intimidating as Spell Pierce, Daze, Counterspell).
That said, us experienced players know how to bait and play around Counterspells (in general, not just the namesake card), so we would prefer that it be around.
April 16, 2012 11:43 p.m.
Things that should not get reprinted: Mana Leak, Titans, Swords.
I don't think wizards will reprint mana leak or counterspell. Why release Frightful Delusion if you're going to make it completely useless a few months later?
As far as I can tell, wizards is trying to water down control in a big way. Every major control spell has been taken down a notch in ISD block - why print those versions if they are going to be replaced by a better version in M13? No control deck uses Divine Reckoning over Day of Judgment - but when there is no Day of Judgment you won't have much of a choice.
I like toning down control. It's was too powerful. But there is a line. Now, Delver is too powerful - I think wizards needs to and is going to release some serious anti-weenie spells to restore balance.
April 17, 2012 2:28 a.m.
thebeardedshuffler says... #24
Rancor is unlikely with Infect still in play. We know Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is being reprinted so I'm guessing a cycle of Planeswalkers, possibly all multicoloured.
April 17, 2012 6:15 a.m.
thebeardedshuffler says... #25
Also I'm glad titans are going, I refuse to believe baneslayer angel will come back, reprinting Goyf in a core set would be great financial sense because everyone would buy every booster ever printed, Counterspell was too good, are you insane to suggest otherwise? Delver is not too powerful. I think that about covers everything!
April 17, 2012 6:18 a.m.
doubt they will reprint goyf cuz things like that, that automatically get put into every deck x 4 get ban hammered so it would be pointless we dont need another JtMS fiasco do we?! :-P and getting rid of the titans is good, they are awesome but break the game IMO i look forward to something new and fat replacing them
April 17, 2012 8:01 a.m.
@Demarge I hope they bring madness back...although I doubt it. That was my favorite mechanic back when it was standard!
April 17, 2012 10:05 a.m.
DeckBuilder345 says... #28
@thorton i don't think mana leak is going anywhere. Just because Frightful Delusion is in the set doesn't mean Mana Leak can't be there as well. could be the delusions were just there as a limited card that blue mages could use. It has been in a the last few sets though so maybe they could take leak out.... still I would be kinda surprised if they did.
April 17, 2012 11:27 a.m.
rckclimber777 says... #29
Frightful Delusion is not an effective counter spell and deserves to be overshadowed.
@thebeardedshuffler I saw a picture for M13 and it had nicol bolas planeswalker card along with 5 other planeswalkers behind it all mono colored (except bolas). My guess is bolas will be the only multicolored planeswalker.
April 17, 2012 3:56 p.m.
thebeardedshuffler says... #30
I've seen that picture but not clearly enough to make out the cards behind him.
April 17, 2012 4:11 p.m.
I have reason to believe that Baneslayer Angel will make a comeback. I think it is the most reasonable way to deal with all of the RIDICULOUS amounts of dragons and demons that are in the Innistrad Block. Either that, or it is too broken, but when has that stopped WotC in the past?
In regards to my original post, I merely meant that Bruna, Light of Alabaster comes out late, between turn 2-3 when Mesa Enchantress comes into play and when you actually play the angel, you will have drawn plenty of cards. Now, I have received a lot of negative feedback from my local meta in playing auras in draft (not so much in standard) because everyone says that there are entirely too many ways to get around the Aura/enchantment of a creature. People say that throwing a Furor of the Bitten or Spectral Flight on a weenie is pointless if it can be removed. In essence, yes it CAN be pointless because you effectively lose 2 cards (the creature being enchanted and the enchantment itself), but it puts pressure on the opponent to waste the removal turn 2-3.
My point was, however, when you have Mesa Enchantress out and play those enchantments/auras (the non curse ones more than likely), you do not lose card advantage because you draw from playing the cheap auras I mentioned before, and ones like them. you could potentially play 2 on turn 4, drawing cards to replace them, and if your creature is removed so be it, it dies, the auras drop to the graveyard, and when the angel comes out everything is dumped on her. So drawing cards turns 3-6 until the angel hits play, combined with the possibility of milling ones you can't play in favor of ones you can in the meantime all add to the destructive power Bruna, Light of Alabaster.
April 18, 2012 5:18 p.m.
thebeardedshuffler says... #33
They will not reprint baneslayer. I refuse to believe it. It was worse than the titans. Lalalalalala I can't hear youuuuu.
April 18, 2012 6:13 p.m.
"Worse than the Titans" isn't really much of a statement since the Titans are awesome. Basically everything is worse than Awesome.
April 18, 2012 11:50 p.m.
thebeardedshuffler says... #35
Are you incapable of understanding basic communication? My phrase clearly indicated that I felt she was more powerful than the titans.
April 19, 2012 5:09 a.m.
I know what you meant. I wasn't talking about power level. I was refuting your view that Titans have a negative impact on the game, because they don't.
April 19, 2012 9:18 a.m.
DeckBuilder345 says... #37
@ bcurran - i actually think that titans are a bit stifling as they prevent the use of other large creatures as finishers. The titans are so good that every other creature printed with a cmc of 6 or more is unusable. So I tend to agree with the others that they have created something of a problem. All other finishers in all other sets have not been able to stand up to the power of titans, making everything with a cost of 6 cmc worthless in every set. This really limits the design space of usable cards in block sets.
April 19, 2012 10:59 a.m.
True, but I'd rather just play the best cards available at any given time. I don't care whether or not Shock exists if Lightning Bolt is legal, do I?
Plus, Titans don't see that much play right now, and personally I'd rather lose to Primeval Titan than to a Burn deck, which is just depressing to play with and against.
April 19, 2012 11:28 a.m.
Also, Consecrated Sphinx and Wurmcoil Engine would like a word with you.
April 19, 2012 11:29 a.m.
Wow...the purpose of this thread has really been lost....so to further the purpose of this thread, with all of the multicolored angels in avacyn returns, I hope to see a reprint of City of Brass or Grand Coliseum or something like that.
April 19, 2012 11:58 a.m.
Yeah, City of Brass would be nice. It's been printed in Core Sets before. They probably stopped because they are trying to appeal to bad players with "all-upside" mechanics, and Pain Lands don't really fit into that vision.
April 19, 2012 12:08 p.m.
I love Pain Lands. Not trying to sound weird or anything...[cough] [cough]. But they typically come into play untapped...besides a few exceptions. Besides that you don't need to take a damage if you don't need the color because they provide colorless mana too for free.
April 19, 2012 12:54 p.m.
Yeah, but new players greatly overvalue their life total. Depending on how long you've been playing, you probably remember a time when you thought the "lucky charms" (Dragon's Claw & co.) were good. The prospect of your lands dealing damage to you is going to scare a lot of beginners away from using them, which as I said is probably why they haven't been printed in a while.
I personally would love to have Pain Lands back, mainly because they are better, but also because I would buy Ice Age and Apocalypse versions of them and get to use old-faced cards in Standard (I love using old cards way too much).
April 19, 2012 1:09 p.m.
I agree about using old faced cards when possible. I use old dissipates when possible along with mana leaks. And...yes I do remember the "lucky charms". haha.
April 19, 2012 2:21 p.m.
HiddenWolf says... #45
I think Baneslayer Angel will be back, and maybe even Bogardan Hellkite and Platinum Angel.
What I think will remain is Doom Blade, Duress, Ponder, Rampant Growth, Serra Angel and Mana Leak. Not so sure about Oblivion Ring and Day of Judgment though...
Maybe Lightning Bolt and Giant Growth smile for us again.
I really wanted to Venser, the Sojourner not leave the format, since Avacyn Restored is really getting some more uses from a planeswalker like him, but I don't think there's much we can do, since he died in the storyline...
April 20, 2012 10:01 a.m.
@HiddenWolf Well I don't know how the core sets have been working lately....I was just used to the old ones every other year where all there was was reprints. Now that they make new sets for the core sets, Is there a storyline to the new core sets? If not....Although unlikely there is a chance that Venser, the Sojourner could return since if it doesn't have its own story line it wouldn't matter if he died or not. Also remember this is a fantasy land. People can die off and always come back. So who knows...Maybe we will see a new Venser in the future. Who knows. It would be awesome.
April 20, 2012 11:38 a.m.
@HiddenWolf Day of Judgment will absolutely be reprinted. There has not been a core set without Wrath of God or a variant on it in the entire history of Magic.
April 20, 2012 11:45 a.m.
It would also be nice to see the wishes from judgement back again. Like Burning Wish and the others. Also if they brought that back they should bring back mirari. It would be ciik though to see that mixed with innistrad because it would kind of fit flavorwise...minus the mirari...because the humans were wishing for a way to survive among the monsters and now that avacyn has returned those wishes could come true. I don't know. Its kind of a stretch. Actually you wouldnt really need the mirari with the Reverberates and Increasing Vengeance. We could see a whole new burning wish deck. I would love that. I miss that time in standard. But unfortunately I very highly doubt it would happen.
April 20, 2012 11:46 a.m.
HiddenWolf says... #49
@heinm1989 That would be awesome! Let's see... Maybe he really can come back with all that "time" distortions we are already used to in blue magic. Also, I don't think Reverberate will be reprinted, exactly because of Increasing Vengeance. Chandra, the Firebrand have a better chance in my opinion.
@bcurran I thought about that, but with Divine Reckoning things got weird lately... I really wish they could reprint Wrath of God tho, I had troubles with regenerators because of Day of Judgment.
Thrun, the Last Troll : Problems, removal? * trollface *
April 20, 2012 noon
HiddenWolf says... #50
@heinm1989 That would be awesome! Let's see... Maybe he really can come back with all that "time" distortions we are already used to in blue magic. Also, I don't think Reverberate will be reprinted, exactly because of Increasing Vengeance. Chandra, the Firebrand have a better chance in my opinion.
@bcurran I thought about that, but with Divine Reckoning things got weird lately... I really wish they could reprint Wrath of God tho, I had troubles with regenerators because of Day of Judgment.
Thrun, the Last Troll : Problems, removal? * trollface *
MasterFlinter says... #2
I think Rancor
will be reprinted. They were ready to reprint it for M12 but it was dropped last minute and I think they are going to want some sweet auras for Bruna, Light of Alabaster
.
April 16, 2012 1:35 p.m.