Cunning Rhetoric

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Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vintage Legal

Cunning Rhetoric


Whenever an opponent attacks you and/or one or more planeswalkers you control, exile the top card of that player’s library. You may play that card for as long as it remains exiled, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any colour to cast it.

ThinMargin on Liesa, Liesa, they so flying...

1 month ago

multimedia great feedback! All of those cards were on the maybe list for me for sure. The deck was feeling a little creature heavy.

There are a few mechanics I would like to keep though. I am using Gideon's Avenger and the Vampire Scrivener to counter up and give them life link with one of the 3 enchants I have for that. Makes them good blockers or attackers and a tempting removal burn to keep Liesa out longer. They fit in line with the punishment theme of Liesa. If I had something that did both, that would be better. If Liesa is out, each combo costs me 4 life. It is a side road I need to consider if I can get my Loyal Unicorn out and haven't found my Victory's Herald .

Also, it pains me to let go of my infi-chump blocker. Blinking Spirit is one of my favorite cards for watching peoples heads explode, it probably should have been blue, really. But I can see the sense in getting rid of a recasting creature in a Liesa deck. Good call.

What do you think of this:

I appreciate the help! Cheers!

multimedia on Liesa, Liesa, they so flying...

1 month ago

Hey, good start at using/upgrading the precon on a budget, nice Sword of Feast and Famine. Some improvements to consider for gameplay is getting more value especially draw from gaining or using life such as Greed. Pay 4 mana to get Greed on the battlefield then it's repeatable draw a card for 1 mana + 2 life as many times as you want.

Some cards that are in the precon to consider adding:

Usually if a card in the precon is more expensive price then others then it's a good card that's worth an extra look and a playest. You're pretty safe to include all the expensive price cards in a precon in your upgraded version. Stinging Study is instant draw five cards for 5 mana + 5 life which is a good return and uses extra life your gaining to draw cards.

Keen Duelist can be repeatable draw using life for no additional mana cost. Yes, opponent also gets to draw, but that's a price you have to pay because of lower budget. Inkshield is powerful effect to protect yourself from combat and potentially create a ton of fliers. Orzhov Signet can do a lot more for gameplay than many creatures here because it can help to cast Liesa.

A nice guide for casual Commander deck building is to include at least 10 ramp sources and at least 10 draw sources. I would include more of each, but start with 10. More ramp and draw can be examples of quality filler cards and that's where you should consider starting for upgrades.

If you're interested I offer more advice in another comment. Would you like more advice?

Good luck with your deck.

Elhoggerino on Card suggeations

3 months ago

Here are a bunch of cards with that type of effect:

Gonti, Lord of Luxury

Rogue Class

Brainstealer Dragon

Breeches, Brazen Plunderer although specific to pirates so maybe not

Cunning Rhetoric

Grinning Totem

Guile a bit situational but you might like it

Knacksaw Clique

Mezzio Mugger

Muse Vessel

Opposition Agent

Ornate Kanzashi

Thada Adel, Acquisitor

You Find Some Prisoners

Hope that helps, you can find more of these at, it's just a big card database where you can search for specific rules texts, names etc.

Davinoth on Prosper's Purgatory [Treasure EDH]

3 months ago

     elliotmward97: So in the end, I actually cut Cunning Rhetoric for Imperial Recruiter. I was looking really hard at Mayhem Devil but thought it would be better to cut it for Agent of the Iron Throne once I pick one up.

     Rhetoric is good, but similar to other cards we've talked about in that it requires participation on behalf of my opponents.

Last_Laugh on Isshin - Army of Darkness

5 months ago

@IHATENAMES - I agree that I could use more interaction. I've cut boardwipes right now as more of an experiment but I could use more targeted removal.

Card draw I've been happy with but I'm always after suggestions if you have something not listed below in mind? I run 8 cards that draw, 3 that exile stuff for me to play, and 4 of the best tutors for redundancy. I currently run Esper Sentinel, Mangara, the Diplomat, Twilight Prophet, Tymna the Weaver, Welcoming Vampire, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, and Skullclamp for draw and Tectonic Giant, Jeska's Will, and Cunning Rhetoric for play from exile.

Crow-Umbra on Isshin: Mardu for Dummies

5 months ago

No worries! I'm glad you liked my first couple suggestions ACapo18.

I've played my Isshin deck about 5-7 times IRL with some more games on the horizon for this weekend. I think I swapped out Cunning Rhetoric after my first couple of games. In my experiences, it wasn't much of a deterrent, and the cards it exiled weren't particularly useful.

I love Prosper, Tome-Bound; he's one of my recent favorite commanders. I understand how he can be a card advantage engine, but I think him and the other Impulse draw sub-theme is kind of disjointed with the aggro, go-wide stuff that Isshin wants to do. If you needed to, you can likely keep Prosper and Laelia, but Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant feels kind of out of place compared to the other 2. If you like Impulse draw, have you looked at Florian, Voldaren Scion? He can dig down and pseudo-tutor depending on how much damage you're throwing around each combat.

I can see what you're going for with the creatures that care about Modified status, but I don't think they synergize enough, or have enough support with the rest of your deck to keep included. I personally like Breena, the Demagogue the most (I run her in my own list), but I don't think you're running enough Modified enablers to keep some of the others. That's ultimately your call depending on which ones you like most.

Mirror Box also feels kind of out of place as an anthem effect, since it only helps your Legends. The only other card in your 99 that this really benefits is Rionya, Fire Dancer

Underworld Sentinel also seems really slow for the payoff that it can potentially achieve.

I think if you cut any of those cards, you could likely include a bit more: token productions damage anthems, draw, and board protection. Here are some cards I've played with in my list that I like:

Hopefully these additional suggestions are helpful. Would be happy to keep exchanging ideas if you would like. I have an Isshin primer write-up on my profile where I discuss some card options, in case that's of any interest to you. I've generally found that keeping Isshin's mana curve fairly low allows him to rebuild pretty quickly after waves of removal.

Crow-Umbra on Isshin: Mardu for Dummies

5 months ago

This deck looks fun! Have you had a chance to play it much irl? At quick glance there are a couple cards I would recommend as swap outs:

  • Cunning Rhetoric - I know this card is pretty popular in Isshin lists in general, but I think it's a bit overhyped, since it only triggers per opponent and not per creature attacking you. In my experience playing it, losing 2 cards wasn't enough of a deterrent for my opponents to stop swinging at me. Marchesa's Decree could slot in here instead, since it triggers per creature and introduces Monarch into the game.

  • Velomachus Lorehold - You currently have 11 instants and sorceries in your deck, and Velomachus can free cast 10 of those 11 without any additional buffs or anthems. He only checks for about 11% of your deck when he digs through 7 cards (14 with Isshin). Depending on where you are in the game, that's not the most ideal, imo.

  • Raiyuu, Storm's Edge - I think he can be a lot of fun as the commander for a Samurai/Exalted/Equipment/Voltron type list, but he doesn't really fit in this version of Isshin. I recommend checking out Adriana, Captain of the Guard, since she anthems out wide boards that want to swing at everybody.

I hope these suggestions are helpful to you. If you're interested, I have a few more suggestions, but wanted to get your thoughts first.

Gidgetimer on Does Revenge of Ravens trigger …

7 months ago

You can link cards by enclosing them in double square brackets:

Revenge of Ravens

It depends entirely on how the ability is worded. Revenge of Ravens and other cards that say "whenever a creature attacks..." trigger for each attacking creature.

Cunning Rhetoric and other cards that say "whenever an opponent attacks..." will only trigger once per combat.

Duelist's Heritage and other cards that say "whenever one or more creatures attack..." will only trigger once per combat.

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