|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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Wheel and Deal
Any number of target opponents each discards his or her hand and draws seven cards.
Draw a card.
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|Have (4)||damo_rox , Wolfebladeelite , Azdranax , silvereh|
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Wheel and Deal Discussion
1 week ago
I ran puzzle box for awhile, I just found it to be too chaotic for my purposes. Wheel and Deal seems good. I could probably use one more wheel in here. I do kind of like that Friend or Foe one from Battlebond, but five mana might be more than I want to spend.
1 week ago
1 month ago
Read the second half of Wheel and Deal's text. Your opponents discard their hands, true - but then they get to draw back up to seven. You're getting marginal benefit and very likely giving your opponents free card advantage. If I'm your opponent and you've been making me discard all game, I will be very happy when you play a card that lets me discard the few remaining cards in my hand and draw back up to seven.
Now, it's true that Wheel effects are very good with Liliana's Caress, Geth's Grimoire, and Waste Not, but if you never draw one of those three cards (or if an opponent destroys them), the Wheel effects become marginal to outright bad. (That said, if you want to double down on such things, Megrim should probably be in this deck too.)
And if all you want to do is fill their graveyard so that you can exploit what's in there with Reanimate and Lazav, Dimir Mastermind and the like, you're better off running mill cards (e.g., Keening Stone) over Wheel effects.
As for your second question, Damia herself is the main reason to discard your own cards. Necrogen Mists and Bottomless Pit empty your hand faster so that you draw more cards with Damia's ability. These cards hurt everyone equally, but only you are playing a creature who can jump out of the command zone and let you refuel in one fell swoop. Part of the benefit of the discard theme is limiting your opponents' options. If you're refilling up to seven cards with Damia every round while your opponents are trying to make things work with only one or two cards in hand, then Mists and Pit aren't really hurting you. Plus, you have Archfiend of Ifnir, which I assume that you added because you wanted to benefit from self-discarding.
1 month ago
I have a deck, Damia Discard, that has a lot of symmetrical discard because Damia allows you to recover much more easily than your opponents, and because targeted discard is less good when you have multiple opponents. I've found Necrogen Mists and Bottomless Pit to be indispensable, and Liliana of the Veil would also be pretty good if you can afford the price tag.
Extirpate doesn't make any sense in a singleton format (unless your playgroup has a lot of Relentless Rats decks running around, ha), so that's an easy cut. Wheel and Deal is also really bad in this deck - if you've been making your opponents discard, the absolute last thing you want to do is give them a free Wheel of Fortune.
1 month ago
Have a hand that you don't want to get rid of? Try Wheel and Deal.
Here's a link to my Nekusar, if you care to take a gander:
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 2 | 79 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
2 months ago
2 months ago
Hi there, i'll share all the knowledge i've gathered after playing discard decks for more than 5 years (i've built monoblack creatureless discard, monoblack creature discard, UB discard, RB discard, Grixis discard, specter discard, etc.).
The first i see here is that you don't have anything to deal with the board, so you'll more than probably die to anything that hits the board, even a simple 3/1 two-drop. Your deck relies too much on damaging your opponent through giving him many cards and forcing him to discard not that many; the only card in your deck that punishes him this way is Liliana's Caress and that's it, it's not reliable. You also run two copies of Painful Quandary which it's ideal mechanics are to punish your opponent for having no hand, but since you are forcing him to draw so many cards, he'll always have the option to discard while playing a spell (only taking 2 damage from Liliana's Caress and only if you have the enchant on the battlefield).
You have many cards that allow you or your opponent to draw and discard cards, but you only have Alms of the Vein to exploit this mechanic, so get rid of those or stick in more madness cards.
The description says "the goal of this deck is to get your opponent as low as possible", but you can't do that quickly by relying only on 4 copies of Liliana's Caress while you'll be recieving lot's of threats and hits. Master of the Feast will for sure get destroyed by any of the thousands removal spells you'll force your opponent to draw, so it won't be dealing too much damage if any.
Let's work on the solution. First of all, you need your deck to have more consistant way to deal damage and you also need to get rid of your opponent's threats until you've reached mid-late game and you can develop your winning mechanics.
Since you have almost no creature, let's take advantage of that so that you can trade one card of yours for many cards of your opponent. Good cards to do this, depending on the money you want to spend are, for example, Drown in Sorrow , Yahenni's Expertise , Languish and Damnation.
You also need to be faster or at least to be able to delay your opponent's strategy. A way of doing this is by disrupting his early moves to wreck his plan. Cards like Inquisition of Kozilek , Thoughtseize , Duress and Despise excell at doing so.
To strenghten the draw and discard engine you have many cards at your disposal. I don't know if you want to keep the deck in the modern format or to build a casual free of legal restriction deck, so I'll recommend a variety of cards like Chains of Mephistopheles , Probe , Wheel and Deal , Ill-Gotten Gains , Urza's Guilt , Anvil of Bogardan , Whispering Madness , Dark Deal , Font of Mythos , Forced Fruition , Geier Reach Sanitarium , Memory Jar and Temple Bell.
You need more cards than Liliana's Caress to punish your opponent for discarding or drawing cards. All of these are good for the task, suit yourself: Underworld Dreams , Psychosis Crawler , Fate Unraveler , Waste Not , Megrim and Words of Waste.
Since you and your opponent will be drawing lots of cards, you will be able to discard cards too or abuse your card-drawing. This does not only work well for madness, but also with delve, retrace and other cards. Consider some of these: Chain of Smog , Last Rites , Big Game Hunter , Raven's Crime , Syphon Life , Cunning Lethemancer , Necrogen Mists , Psychotic Haze , Call to the Netherworld , Dark Withering , Gibbering Descent and also Sphinx's Tutelage.
You'll be forcing your opponent to draw many many cards, so you'll need cards that make him discard more than one to win the trade. Consistant massive discard cards are for example this ones: Brink of Madness , Mindstab , Mind Twist , Mind Shatter or Delirium Skeins.
Which ones and how many
Pick the ones you like the most according to their mana costs and their price. Also consider the ammount of black mana symbols in their cost, because you'll be playing a two colors deck.
Try to keep it as balanced as you can in terms of cards functions. Maybe 30% draw/discard engine - 30% draw/discard punishment - 20% massive discard - 10% 1drops quality discard - 10% board whipe. You'll have to test and adjust the numbers.
I know most of those cards are black, but you can keep it UB if you want to. Best version I've made of this strategy was using Grixis (Blue Black and Red) because there's a lot of red cards that force both players to discard and draw like Burning Inquiry and Reforge the Soul for example. Grixis also enables the use of Nekusar, the Mindrazer , Blightning , Sedraxis Specter , Blazing Specter and Dack Fayden.
I hope it's helpful! Best wishes!
3 months ago
I REALLY don't like Day's Undoing because you can't "chain" your wheels with it.