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Creature — Dragon
Amplify 3 (As this card enters the battlefield, put three +1/+1 counters on it for each Dragon card you reveal in your hand.)
Tap: Kilnmouth Dragon deals damage equal to the number of +1/+1 counters on it to target creature or player.
Kilnmouth Dragon Discussion
6 months ago
Big Update - The "Flying Matters" sub-theme is no more. Incorporated many recommendations of Vlasiax to streamline the deck and make it a little leaner and meaner.
Spit Flame , Mana Flare , Heartbeat of Spring , The Immortal Sun , Skarrgan Hellkite , Hellkite Tyrant , Kilnmouth Dragon , Bladewing the Risen , Darigaaz Reincarnated , Shizo, Death's Storehouse , and Woodland Cemetery
Worldly Tutor , Sarkhan's Triumph , Night's Whisper , Nature's Claim , Abrupt Decay , Dragonlord's Servant , Dragonspeaker Shaman , Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma , Patriarch's Bidding , Evolving Wilds , and Terramorphic Expanse
7 months ago
Thank you, excellent suggestions.
I will probably end up swapping Kilnmouth Dragon for Night's Whisper , but it will be painful to do so. If you've ever pulled off revealing 3 dragons from your hand and then dropping in the Kilnmouth Dragon , it's a pretty awesome feeling.
As far as Crucible of Fire goes, I hear you. I know it's a total Timmy/"Win More" card, but I'm a Timmy. Also, I feel like it's one of the few options for "Dragon Tribal"-- if you're not utilizing tribal interactions, why bother?; it also makes all of the tokens absolute beasts. The 2/2s become 5/5 terrors of the skies, etc., etc. With Nesting Dragon in the mix, I felt like this was a card I wanted to include. I think I'm going to play-test a bit after my next update and see how it goes.
I was thinking something a little bit similar with Spit Flame -- the best part there was that it fits the dragon triblal theme and lets me re-use it from the GY for only .
Also, my "Flying Matters" theme is just about toast now, so I'll probably be adding in the Dragonspeaker Shaman and the Dragonlord's Servant instead of the group-hug mana doublers I'm currently including. While I'm at it, I'll probably be adding Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma too (which was an early suggestion from you).
The point re: Temple of the False God is fair and I'll be swapping it out. I also checked out the Evolving Wilds article you linked. Given the benefit of landfall from Nesting Dragon , do you think I should roll with the "slow taplands" or TM/EW?
I'll work on posting a major update this weekend. Thanks again for your thoughts and feedback, I really appreciate it.
7 months ago
About that - main problem here is that you want to have too much high CMC cards that make 'cool things' but it's better to settle for less and actually get there. Playing Dragon tribe already fills your high end of the curve so we need to focus on lower CMC interaction/ramp/draw to get to cast as many of the mentioned creatures as possible.
That's why Crucible of Fire and Sight of the Scalelords are bad but you seem to discover another way to win besides fight with big beaters - it's reanimator strategy. So I'd rather get 4/4 or 5/5 Dragon with Animate Dead for AND do something else than cast one of those enchantments and pass, hoping that it survives on board. I personally use reanimation with Dragon Tempest as a secondary strategy to kill as many people as possible with damage from dragons coming back and then smash the rest with them, since they get haste.
Abrupt Decay has that advantage of hitting NONLAND permaments... so creatures, enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers all go down. While Vraska's Contempt is overpriced Path to Exile in black since planeswalkers can be overrun with Dragons and 2 life gain is negligible. It's not about hitting someone's Craterhoof Behemoth or in your case Hellkite Overlord it's about dealing with Sylvan Library / Phyrexian Arena , Chromatic Lantern or Yisan, the Wanderer Bard that get them there. And that's the lesson that I learned few months back and made drastic changes to my deck - Bow before Draconic King!!! | *WAR* Update. It's still a Dragon deck but has everything that early game requires so I can still compete with better tuned decks of others.
That's why for changes I'd propose:
- Kilnmouth Dragon -> Night's Whisper - instead of giving someone information what you have for 7 mana you get 2 cards for 2 that noone sees besides you
- Skarrgan Hellkite -> Selvala, Heart of the Wilds or Lotus Cobra - 5 mana for 4/4 flyer that can be 5/5 with overpriced activated ability is bad... you'll be better off with one of these dorks for 2-3 CMC.
- Crucible of Fire -> Nature's Claim - lowers the avg. CMC, let's you be more reactive and holding on for interaction on opponents turn is easy to do.
- Spit Flame -> Sarkhan's Triumph - overpriced damage restricted to creatures might be good in Standard but not EDH. Try out tutor instead and thank me later :D
- The Immortal Sun -> Gruul Signet / Rakdos Signet - I know it's an epic card and all but... it's cost is huge, you might actually cast 6 CMC Dragon instead of this and to actually get there you can run early ramp so 1-2 turns earlier flying behemoth will be way more dangerous.
- Hellkite Overlord / Darigaaz Reincarnated -> Worldly Tutor - with tutor in deck you need actually 1 of these two if you still want to have a huge Dragon. Also this is great way to get utility dragons like Glorybringer or Dragonlord Kolaghan when you need them most.
- Temple of the False God -> Rocky Tar Pit / Mountain Valley / Evolving Wilds - this land is bad... if you have 1 land and this, then you still only have 1 land since it won't activate early. Ancient Tomb is great because it can work turn 1 for some rocks but this... requires board full of lands and one Armageddon makes it useless again.
If you want to know more about getting better at EDH I'd recommend checking out CMDR Central and EDHRec podcasts on youtube - https://articles.edhrec.com/commander-central-ep75-settling-for-less/. Also EDHRec page has great articles posted daily, one of them is about Evolving Wilds: https://articles.edhrec.com/in-the-margins-evolving-wilds-terramorphic-expanse/
8 months ago
For additional comparison on why Dracognax's casting cost is too low, here are some similar cards.
Kilnmouth Dragon has Amplify 3, flying, and a 5/5 body. It has an additional ability to deal direct damage based on how many counters are on it. It's casting cost is . This creature has the highest currently existing value for Amplify.
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund has an ability to gain control of all Dragons when it enters the battlefield, with no end condition or further connection to the card. It's also a 7/7 with flying (and haste and gives your other Dragons haste). Its casting cost is .
Borderland Behemoth is the closest I can find to compare to the last ability. It gets +4/+4 for each other Giant you control, and is a 4/4 to start. Its casting cost is . Dracognax's version of this ability is poorly worded because, since it doesn't exclude itself, it's actually a 9/9.
The only reason to actually set a value other than 0 for the in Dracognax's casting cost would be to get around abilities like those on Void Winnower that prevent the casting of certain CMC spells, or to dodge a counterspell that targets a specific CMC.
9 months ago
I also run a Hallar deck, and I'm liking yours a lot. You have a lot of stuff that I don't.
Here are some suggestions that I've found useful:
- Forge of Heroes
- New Horizons
- Primeval Bounty
- Blessings of Nature
- Hunger of the Howlpack
- Immaculate Magistrate
- Emblazoned Golem
In general, I've found that a good way to play Hallar is to focus on providing a lot of +1/+1 counters and then using a few cheap kicker spells to trigger Hallar. I tend to avoid most kickers that are expensive or that require multiple colored mana whenever possible. I also like to use something like Reclaim to get back a cheap kicker so I can potentially trigger Hallar twice in one turn.
I might recommend cutting out some of the more expensive cards, like:
Another fun way to play Hallar if you include a lot of cards that put +1/+1 counters on creatures is to include cards like:
10 months ago
Just a heads up, I'd replace your Mountains with Snow-Covered Mountain s because Extraplanar Lens doubles mana of ALL lands named. More than likely no one at the table will have snow lands so... Plus this gives your access to Scrying Sheets which is something this deck greatly needs, card advantage. Also I REALLY, REALLY think you should be playing Sarkhan, Fireblood and Sarkhan's Unsealing they are WAY too good for this deck.
Here's some card suggestions!
- Chandra, Torch of Defiance
- Staff of Nin
- Mind's Eye
- Wheel of Fortune
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Faithless Looting
- Tormenting Voice
- Cathartic Reunion
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Sin Prodder
- Hedron Archive
- Treasure Map Flip
- The Immortal Sun
- Experimental Frenzy
- Endless Atlas
- Coveted Jewel
Here are some cut suggestions:
- Fledgling Dragon: For four mana you could play Moltensteel Dragon or Territorial Hellkite both of which are more value in my opinion
- Emblem of the warmind: As stated previously it's too easy to deal with.
- Farsight mask: Mind's Eye is strictly better, and you don't want to get hit in the face in order to draw a card.
- Kindred charge: This is PURELY a wind more card in dragons. By the time you cast this, because you'll hold it trying to maximize the copies, you'll be doing massive damage ANYWAY.
- Ancient hellkite: A lot of mana for a meh dragon when this could be a Steel Hellkite , Kilnmouth Dragon , Skyline Despot , or a Demanding Dragon
- Archwing dragon: If you are going to dedicate paying four mana to a dragon every turn, just play Dragon Tyrant
- Slumbering dragon: I like this card idealy... but if we are being honest... This card is NEVER going to wake up, no one is going to let an 8/8 dragon sit on the table for 5 turns.
- Zirilan of the claw: It's good... but you have to exile your creatures... and that's not good for you.
10 months ago
Hey I got some inputs you may want to consider. Of course every deck's performance is closely related to the meta you're playing, but these are some things I think can help.
In my opinion, Haste is more relevant than, for example, Double strike in your deck, since dragons are big enough by default, same goes for Crucible of Fire. Having that is a bit overkill. I think I'd cut Berserkers' Onslaught, Rage Reflection and Crucible of Fire for this reason. I'd also cut Emblem of the Warmind because it's so very easy to deal with. Instead, I think it would be better to add Anger , Fervor , Hammer of Purphoros . Also, these cards can lower your average CMC.
Counter magic can be toublesome when you look at the high CMC of your spells, so Conqueror's Flail can help you protect against that. Also Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast are good on these same way. Another thing is the sweepers, since your creatures will be the biggest and more costly, Wrath effects are more detrimental to you. Maybe squeezing in a Warping Wail to protect your board against that can be useful and also the least expected in a mono red deck.
I think you're OK when it comes to drawing cards, but there are some things I think can be improved. First, there is Urza's Blueprints which isn't very mana efficient. For 6 mana artifact you should replace it with The Immortal Sun , so much more at same cost. Then, comes the "when something happens, pay some mana to draw" effects, which I think are no good when you look at how much mana you're spending on your creatures: Here we have Mind's Eye and Seer's Sundial. Not only these cards require stuff to happen but also that you pay precious, scarce mana for them. Farsight Mask comes here as well; I think these can be replaced by Outpost Siege (choosing Khans) and Vance's Blasting Cannons Flip. The Outpost has a teeny tiny difference with the Cannons in that it lets you play lands while Cannons does not. Staff of Nin is a bit high cost for what it does but I think it's OK considering it's a "secure" draw. Dragon's Hoard is somewhat slow, but as it also gives you mana fits great. Same thing with Vanquisher's Banner, as it gives a little buff and some draw as well. Knollspine Dragon can really draw lots of cards, but somewhat late I think. I wouldn't cut it though, I'd maybe add Dragon Mage to refill your hand.
Looking your ramp, you got some good choices. I'd add Herald's Horn and Ruby Medallion to the "lowering cost" pack and also The Immortal Sun as I already mentioned. I think you should consider the inclusion of Solemn Simulacrum and Burnished Hart to get lands and also, there's this land I really like on mono colored decks with lots of basic lands, Terrain Generator . I'd be careful with symmetric effects such as Gauntlet of Power and Mana Flare, it could be dangerous to give free mana to your opponents. On a related subject, in addition to Belbe's Portal, maybe adding a Quicksilver Amulet and Cryptic Gateway as a second and third ways to cheat dragons at instant speed.
Your deck is lacking removal, there's virtually none if you don't count the effects on some creatures and as we all know, creatures are the most vulnerable permanent on the board. So, Chaos Warp is a must I think considering the versatility it provides. Warstorm Surge could kill most of your opponents creatures whenever a dragon enters the battlefield or do lots of damage directly to your opponents. Kilnmouth Dragon can act as a removal for creatures as well. Steel Hellkite fits here too, it's a dragon and can get any permanent of the specific cost needed, kills tokens for 0 mana, for example. Also, Vandalblast to get rid of your opponents' mana rocks. Earthquake is OK, I'd rather run Magmaquake or Starstorm because of instant speed, but I'd consider adding Blasphemous Act and maybe Hour of Devastation , Chain Reaction or Mizzium Mortars . Disaster Radius has a high CMC but it doesn't hit you or your stuff.
The last ability on Sarkhan, Dragonsoul is ridiculous, but hard to achieve. Still, I think it may worth the try.
Swiftfoot Boots instead of Mask of Avacyn, equipping for 3 mana is way too high.
1 year ago
So, landwise I do not like the Valakut, and would recommend either Haven of the Spirit Dragon, Flamekin Village or an Utility land like Buried Ruin. Also not a fan of Brave the Sands and Dowsing Dagger. just too cute for me. Still a fan of Scroll Rack when you play Land Tax though :)
Creaturewise I think Dragonmaster Outcast is just too low impact, also Moonveil Dragon and Skyship Stalker are a bit weak. Even though Dragonspeaker Outcast provides great ramp I am struggling with that one. There are a few dragons which merit further exploration I think, but can depend on what you are facing.
Thunderbreak Regent (A rattlesnake and nicely costed)
Thundermaw Hellkite (can clear the way for your non-trampling attack)
Scourge of the Throne (it is perfectly easy to get an additional attack out of this at least once)
Rimescale Dragon (would require moving to snow lands, a bit clunky manawise)
Kilnmouth Dragon (good utility dragon, but with the nr. of dragons you are running may be awkward)
Hellkite Charger (additional attacks? would pair nicely with neheb :)
Flameblast Dragon (no need to hit a player to dish out damage)
Wardscale Dragon (defense during your attack)
Nesting Dragon (The egg tokens are a good thing against board wipes)
Some Card Draw Dragons
Hoarding Dragon (Without the ability to misuse the ability may be a bit weak)
Eternal Dragon (more slow moving)
Dream Pillager (good effect, setup to high maybe)
Skyline Despot (well draws at least one cards and monarch makes stuff move)
Runehorn Hellkite (this one I really like. Usable EOT before you have your turn makes this really good)
Kilnmouth Dragon occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%