Do you have to Mill with WAR Tamiyo and Chains of Mephistopheles?
Asked by Lorkhan 4 years ago
As the title. Supposing an opponent controls Chains of Mephistopheles and you control Tamiyo, Collector of Tales , would CoM force you to Mill 1 if you would draw extra cards?
As far as I know, Tamiyo is the only card that actively prevents discard effects rather than altering them to discard cards elsewhere.
Rhadamanthus says... #2
I saw this question last night and felt like I had to think it over a lot more before offering an answer. After reading through the various sections of the CR that I thought would be relevant ("Objects", "Abilities", "Handling Static Abilities", miscellaneous cross-references and Glossary entries), it looks to me like static abilities don't actually have a controller. If that's the case then Tamiyo, Collector of Tales doesn't interact with Chains of Mephistopheles . Notice that the examples in the Gatherer rules note quoted earlier are triggered abilities. Those are definitely objects with a controller, so we know Tamiyo should interact with them properly. However, Chains doesn't work that way. It's all based around a static ability that generates a replacement effect. The ability isn't an object, doesn't go onto the stack, and as far as I can tell doesn't have a controller or owner. Anyone, let me know if I'm missing something.
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May 9, 2019 2:33 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
I don't know why, but I had a sudden thought about this interaction again and I realized there was a defect in my earlier thinking.
Tamiyo, Collector of Tales would only stop you from discarding (forcing you to mill instead of draw) if the effect trying to make you draw extra cards is controlled by an opponent. Chains of Mephistopheles doesn't do anything directly, but rather changes the result of other effects. For example: if you target yourself with Inspiration in this situation then you discard-draw, discard-draw. Tamiyo doesn't interfere because it's your own spell that's causing you to discard cards. If someone else cast Inspiration targeting you then Tamiyo would stop you from discarding and you'd be forced to mill 2 cards.
GreatSword says... Accepted answer #1
Yeah they have to mill instead of drawing a card.
Chains of Mephistopheles says they have instead of drawing a card, they discard a card first and then draw a card; if they don't, they instead put the top card from their library into the graveyard. Since their Tamiyo, Collector of Tales prevents them from discarding cards from your effects, they don't have a choice and the "if they don't" clause kicks in.
From Tamiyo, Collector of Tales 's Gatherer:
"If a spell or ability an opponent controls states that something happens unless you sacrifice a permanent (as Mogis, God of Slaughter does) or discard a card (as Painful Quandary does), you can’t choose to sacrifice or discard."
May 9, 2019 1:21 a.m. Edited.