Prototype Portal for Mana Ramp?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Sept. 20, 2016, 12:28 p.m. by StopShot
So I play in an EDH playgroup that plays heavily in either prison-control, combo-kill, and BG-stax, and my deck falls under combo-kill.
I feel like at times my deck could use more consistent mana, but the curve is so low that I don't want to implement anything I feel might be too clunky, (my average CMC is 2.76) and I can't afford anything too expensive, ex; Mana Crypt, Crucible of Worlds.
My deck is in Mardu colors, () and I'm wanting to know how people feel about using Prototype Portal for mana ramp. (Mana ramp through imprinting cards like Ancient Den, Great Furnace, Vault of Whispers, Darksteel Citadel and Sol Ring)
My deck already runs tutors such as Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Gamble, Insidious Dreams, Diabolic Intent, and I do have a spare Expedition Map I can use, so I don't think consistency will be too bad of an issue. I just need to know if people feel using Prototype Portal is an effective mana ramp engine for non-green decks.
(P.S. The only mana rocks I'm using for my deck are Sol Ring, Mana Vault, and Boros Signet, because Contamination and Infernal Darkness are problems in my playgroup.)
@Lightpulsar9, I'm not looking to mana ramp fast, just to ramp consistently. The problem with multiple rocks is they take away from cards I'd want to use to search for combo pieces or removal I'd need to use to stop specific hate-pieces or other people from winning the game.
Since my curve is so low generating a lot of mana really fast would easily burn me out of cards to use especially considering I don't have access to any draw X spells. I just want a way to reliably hit six or more mana without having to hit up a bunch of cards/rocks to do it. If anything I'm looking for more of an engine like Crucible of Worlds which works fine by itself as a single card to generate several rocks-worth of mana despite it being an incremental increase each turn. There's also to note that rocks can easily be removed whereas if the engine gets blown up I still have all the mana it generated for future use.
Mana isn't too bad of a necessity since a some of my combos need up to three to five turns of consistent land drops to be pulled off, but if someone stops me I'm going to need a late-game plan which is where I might need more mana, but not a whole lot since my highest CMC is only between two six costs.
September 20, 2016 1:28 p.m.
The way I typically view cards like Prototype Portal, is that they're synergy dense cards that are inherently parasitic. This means:
1) They need other cards to be effective and are completely dead if you don't have them.
2) They attach themselves to other cards, making you vulnerable to 2-for-1's and potentially losing you card advantage.
In addition to this, Prototype Portal has an additional drawback of needing the card you're imprinting to be in your hand, so you have to hold back resources you could otherwise be investing in your boardstate.
When I'm evaluating cards like this I use the "critical mass" principle, basically states that for every card in your deck that requires other cards in order to function well (or at all), you need at enough cards "other cards" (cards that satisfy it's conditions) that you will see them every game. If you can't reach that threshold, the card is not reliable and should be cut.
Typically the number of cards you need in a commander deck to satisfy this principle is ten. Ten cards with a particular effect in a hundred card deck makes it statistically likely that you will see that effect at least once within the first 3 turns of the game. Sometimes the number is lower, like with haste granting effects, since they are redundant and it's a waste to have more than on at a time. For non-redundant effects or effects that stack, you get the opposite effect, where the deck wants as many of the effect as it can support.
For Prototype Portal, keeping in mind it's in-hand drawback, I would typically only play it in a deck that will see 1 to 2 copy-able artifacts every game by turn four, so about fifteen cards that are worthwhile to imprint. That's a pretty high threshold, so I don't often include Prototype Portal in my decks, but I might if the deck already had a high artifact density.
Also keep in mind the 2-for-1 drawback, and that you should really be only counting targets that you can get a copy of the same turn you play Prototype Portal like your artifact lands (getting a Gilded Lotus every turn is amazing, getting shot down before you can and having you lotus stuck in exile, not so much).
Also, when counting potential Prototype Portal targets, do NOT include your tutors in your count. While there may be games that you want to tutor for something to put on Prototype Portal, it is already potential card disadvantage, so wasting a tutor on it only compounds the potential loss, and is not something you should plan on doing.
Hope this helps.
September 20, 2016 1:38 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #5
How about Land Tax? If you're really desperate for continual ramp in those colors, you could try Journeyer's Kite or that 2 mana artifact that lets you search for basics for each opponent with more lands than you...
But for sure, run the rest of the signets in Mardu. You can try Worn Powerstone, Coalition Relic, Chromatic Lantern for more consistent ramp (although a bit slower)
September 20, 2016 2:02 p.m. Edited.
Second Land Tax, lovely card. Weathered Wayfarer is great too, especially if you have non-basics you want to find.
You could also throw in the other two signets. I typically cut land for those with any problems.
September 20, 2016 2:13 p.m.
@sonnet666, I understand where you are coming from on this and the concern of Prototype Portal being a 2-for-1 sort of deal as well as the need for the high artifact density and how the card may be flat out useless without a complimentary card in hand, but there are some parts I would respectfully wish to disagree.
Yes, Prototype Portal's imprint makes it removal bait especially if it's sitting on a Thran Dynamo or a Gilded Lotus, however my targets at worst in CMC would be 1 and at best would be the zero CMC lands. If the Portal has imprinted a land and someone aims a removal spell I can at least tap in response and produce a land, effectively making it a 1-for-1 trade since the imprinted card ended up getting played as if it were played from my hand without consequence. (And one could argue I forced a removal spell out of someone's hand this way.)
Of course you could argue that removal can be targeted upon the imprint trigger, but normally this issue can be side-stepped if the card is played at a time where any red, white, or green player is tapped out from resolving any instant speed artifact hate spell.
That aside I do find your point on how having a consistent number of artifact targets to be very important. I wouldn't doubt the math either since 99 card decks can sometimes be a pain to play combo-kill due to how limited key pieces can be. That said while some of the tutors would compound the number of cards lost if the portal was removed, that then begs the question of how valuable is it worth it to my opponent to remove the Portal. I probably should have given better clarity that this is in multiplayer commander and that I'm not the only target on the board, so I question if someone would play spot removal on a mana ramp engine instead of holding onto to that removal for a potential combo-off or detrimental tax or stax permanent from another opponent's field. I admit this is a question more specific to my playgroup than in Magic in general, but that's why I wanted to include information about my playgroup in the first place as part of the analysis for this card. (I don't intend on playing competitive single player and 90% of the time will be playing in multiplayer with friends.)
There's also the fact you brought up redundancy in having multiple targets for the Prototype Portal and how having too many can also be very problematic to deal with. However I don't feel this is as problematic as it would be in most other situations in commander given that the multiple targets for Prototype Portal are all lands and a Sol Ring which are still useful even without the portal, and they do not take away from other important key cards in the deck. Of course I can see how this would get problematic if I tried adding nonland targets that would become useless if multiple targets were in my hand, but as it stands lands are crucial for any deck really, even though they're not the best lands to put into any given deck I can say I've maxed out on all the effective dual lands I can use (excluding original dual lands that are out of my budget) and that these lands would only swap in for extra basic lands.
Maybe if I were to add another choice from the 5 I've already listed I could add Sensei's Divining Top which is cheap as a Sol Ring, does provide actual card advantage since the token isn't placed on my deck and still creates a 1-for-1 loss if the portal is removed, but that would only make 6 targets out of the 10 you said I would need to make this consistent. If any of what I've said you found agreeable in the slightest do you feel this in anyway changes how practical the Prototype Portal would be after considering my disagreements? (I apologize if my post seemed long and boring. I am not the best at simplifying what I type or in making it look as appealing to how you've organized yours.)
September 20, 2016 2:25 p.m.
@rockleemyhero, sonnet666, I had completely forgotten about Land Tax. I'll make sure to include it.
Journeyer's Kite however feels more clunky for what my deck sets out to do and Weathered Wayfarer wouldn't do since board wipes run rampant like the common cold in my play group that I'd be lucky to resolve a single ability if he wasn't in my opening hand.
I would also complete the signets, but half the time they feel clunky or I'd rather wish I had another removal spell in their place. I only include Boros Signet due to Contamination effects and even then I sometimes want to cut it, because having a single increase of 1 mana in most cases isn't that impactful. (I only run 15 cards that are cmc 4 or greater. 4cmc = 9cards, 5cmc = 4cards, and 6cmc = 2cards.)
Thank you though for the recommendations. I appreciate your participation and ideas.
September 20, 2016 2:36 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #9
I still think the ramp is worth it. Once you put it in, it will allow you to slightly raise your curve and afford more expensive spells in the 4-5 CMC range (or even 6). It will allow more tempo plays such as playing a draw spell and be able to leave up removal. I think the 3 mana rocks are where you have to worry, as those will kill that crucial turn. However i still think the 2 mana rocks are critical, namely the signets and the lone talisman. It should be ok to tap out t2 for a rock in most cases, especially if your meta is wrath heavy.
Also keep in mind of your curve. For example, if you run a lot of 3 CMC spells or you lean heavily on your general who is 3 CMC, then playing the signets won't be as powerful as say something like Jeweled Amulet so you can play on curve. Curve is still very important in competitive formats, even if it's EDH
September 20, 2016 2:43 p.m.
@rockleemyhero 3 CMC is my second highest number of cards where 2 CMC is my highest. (16 and 18 cards respectively.) To be honest though I'm not interested in casting more expensive cards unless I feel they're crucial to any one of the combos or they can provide enough value by themselves without meeting instant death from the play group. (I removed cards like Sneak Attack because it was removed so fast I never got use out of it. That and most of my cards were cheap as is.) I run small cmc cards because they're at least faster and allow me to do complete blow-outs on my turn rather than set something up for the long run. Why drop a 5-cmc spell when someone has a 2-cmc answer is kind of how I see it. That and some tax effects can make those semi-expensive spells all the more painful to cast.
I do think the Jeweled Amulet makes another possible card I'd want to use since it doesn't hurt tempo at all and can be an effective mana sink. Most signet's and other rocks have ended up being dead draws to me, so if I have to include a rock I want it to have some value beyond what its intended for without it being clunky based on how short-end I run my deck.
September 20, 2016 3 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #11
Hmmmm...it's hard to see what you're saying without a specific deck list or breakdown of what decks are most destructive to you in your meta. Do you have a list? Who is your general?
September 20, 2016 3:04 p.m.
The signets typically stop feeling clunky if you count them as land slots rather than rather than spell slots.
They're essentially Nature's Lores for every color. At the low end of ramp like that you can afford to run it in lieu of a couple lands.
Also, all of this is a little tricky to give advice on without seeing you deck. It's it the Alseha deck on your profile? If it is you can easily go down to 34 lands to include the other two signets, and you should definitely include Weathered Wayfarer boardwipes or no, since it only needs 1 or 2 activations to be worthwhile, and you can pull it out of your graveyard if you need it.
And although Sensei's Divining Top would be a good addition to the deck (I thought you had no budget?), if it is the Alesha deck we're talking about, I'm gonna have to recommend you pass on Prototype Portal. Even if you add in the signets and Top, you still only have 9 worthwhile ramp targets (still too low), and only 3 other cards that might be worth putting on the Portal (Solemn, Greaves, and Darksteel). The reason I said 15 for Portal is that you really don't want to have to hold your Sol Ring or something up in your hand to wait to put it on Portal, so most of your ramp is going to be on the field already by the time you're ready to cast it.
Also, Winds of Change is card disadvantage that doesn't advance your graveyard strategy. That's probably a good card to cut for Land Tax.
September 20, 2016 3:07 p.m.
@rockleemyhero, I didn't want to list my deck, because I felt that would be deck advertising on the wrong forum, but this is the deck: (It's the Alesha one.) http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/alesha-who-smites-death/
@sonnet666, Winds of Change has actually been an incredibly powerful card. Yes it doesn't fuel graveyards, but the fact I've won games off of a lucky reset has been very effective. The other two biggest uses are playing it turn 1 on a bad hand to really off-set my opponents terribly, and two Insidious Dreams combos beautifully with Reforge the Soul especially when I'm lining up the combo pieces I need with it. That said there is the off chance where I can't discard enough cards to give me what I need. If I'm stuck with two cards to discard Winds of Change is always my second pick, because if my first 7 card hand doesn't do the trick, my second 6 card hand is there to double down, especially if I cast something important from the first hand and get the other piece with the second hand.
I am on a budget, but Sensei's Divining Top is an exception, because my friend has six of them and can't seem to get rid of his spares. I've got the trades to easily acquire one from what he has seen and wanted, but I've tested Top before and have gotten very little back from it sadly. It doesn't seem worthwhile unless you can break it with something like a Future Sight.
Also just because I can recur the wayfarer, doesn't mean I can get a lot of use out of him. Normally the deck can't wait a whole turn cycle for him to untap and be of any use. I make an exception for Kiki-Jiki and Doomed Necromancer, because both can enable a combo if successfully left alone.
With signet's I have four mana available turn 3, which gets wasteful when I just want to cast Alesha for three, and on turn four the number of 5 costs to cast from is really scarce and infrequent. This is usually the issue I face with the signets is that a turn two mana rock feels pretty unnecessary most of the time. It's why I took a favoring to the idea of Jeweled Amulet since that actually allows me to cast Alesha a turn earlier if in my opening hand and I only need a mana rock maybe half or less than half of the time anyway.
Also I would consider it going down to 33 lands since Maze of Ith does not tap for mana unless I have an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth which isn't in any way reliable. I wouldn't remove the maze either since untapping an Alesha-reanimated Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is very effective. Also I already feel like in a good portion of opening hands I only get two get two lands at the minimum and I'd hate to potentially lose one of them to a signet personally.
September 20, 2016 3:45 p.m.
This is the commander deck help forum. It's where you're supposed to post your deck list. Feel free.
September 20, 2016 7:28 p.m.
Reading through the comments, I have to say that I agree in that adding Prototype Portal seems like a really counter-productive move. I also think that unless there are very viable reasons, people should avoid running artifact lands. You leave yourself too vulnerable to something like a Vandalblast.
As for the signets, I do also think you should be running a full set. Early game ramp is super important and while they don't ramp into your commander, you're not always going to play Alesha on turn three. You might have a Solemn Simulacrum in hand or something. Plus it gives you a turn two play (better than just twiddling your thumbs) so that on turn 5 you have the 6 mana you need.
Also, while it does suck drawing ramp pieces in the late game, you need to be running a decent amount more than you currently have to increase the odds of having opening hand ramp. The issue with saying "I have tutors to get my ramp pieces (such as Prototype Portal)" is that you really don't want to be wasting tutors on ramp. You should be using them to help assemble your combo pieces.
One other card you can consider is Dark Ritual. This is a very polarising card however on the whole I have had excellent experiences with it. The amount of times I have combo'd out when people thought they were safe, or I was able to just leave a single black mana open to bait a creature into a Doom Blade is quite substantial.
Lightpulsar9 says... #2
If you're looking for fast, this is not what you want. I tried this in a glissa artifact deck and it was too slow, even for casual. I'd recommend going to 10 ramp cards. You can use the signets, talismans, sol ring, Commander's Sphere, Chromatic Lantern, Darksteel Ingot, Coalition Relic, etc. There are tons of rocks to pick. A quick Google Search could help with that if you want more to choose from. You can also run cards like Crypt Ghast, Magus of the Coffers, and Cabal Coffers alongside Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Throwing in the map would help find that land combo easier.
September 20, 2016 1:06 p.m.