Reveal a card from your hand. Search your library for a card with the same name as that card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Hellbent — If you have no cards in hand, instead search your library for a card, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Infernal Tutor Discussion
2 weeks ago
Online class is in session, which just means I've got an excuse to post my suggestions now. My suggestions for lands are a doctrine I'm going to press on you; the following suggestions are just ideas that you can decline based on your taste. Overall, your list epitomizes the Commander format to me.
- LANDS MAN LANDS! You could have the best cards in every format and never play them when you need them because you're topdecking the wrong basics at the wrong time. There's budget options, not every mana base needs to be fetches and shocks. Prioritize your lands over cards that are powerful but not essential to your strategy. There are some specific lands that would be interesting in here too. I recommend prioritizing buying one or all of these cycles before buying stuff like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth if you don't already have one. The basic land ratio can then be more specific once your lands are fixed, but that can be the last step of your construction.
Your Mardu and Commander staples: Command Tower , Savai Triome , Nomad Outpost , Exotic Orchard , Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds . I have a Forbidden Orchard that would be cool in this deck but would need to be part of a good deal (I'm strict about lands).
Your bicolored lands:
a. Pain lands: Caves of Koilos and Battlefield Forge are cheap as hell. Sulfurous Springs is the most expensive of these three but if you can get your cycle of lands for less than $15, it's still really good.
b. Filter lands: Graven Cairns , Rugged Prairie , Fetid Heath . You can get all three of these for $16 so it doesn't pass our test... but I have a Cairns for trade, bringing you to $12.50. These are good because you have some cards essential to your strategy that have double-colored-mana costs and others with multicolored costs. These are a great budget cycle, especially for your colors.
Less good bicolored lands that are require deckbuilding technique:
c. Check lands: these are fantastic if you have a good basic land ratio (why it would be important not to run both the thriving lands and the pathways at the same time as these)- Dragonskull Summit , Clifftop Retreat , Isolated Chapel
d. Pathway lands: Needleverge Pathway Flip, Brightclimb Pathway Flip, Blightstep Pathway Flip. You saw the foil full art Blightstep Pathway that was in my knight deck, you asked about the price when you said it was cool. I wouldn't necessarily go out of your way to buy these, but definitely seek them out in binders. If you're not running cards like Cultivate where you want to have some ratio of basic lands, these are strictly better than basic lands and could replace your Thriving Lands (which are a decent start; I have the nonred ones available).
- Curses, Vows, Impetuses: these could be cool, especially with the Sigarda's Aid you already own. Having these in your hand (and even better, a sigarda's aid in play) means when you say "if you attack this person instead of me, I'll reward you with ____" and bluff, or if someone attacks you you could flash in a Vow of Duty . I have most of these in the cube (as well as marchesa and the jankier cards in your deck), so you can try these out and see if you like them.
a. The other vows are Vow of Lightning , Vow of Torment , and Vow of Malice (quick trivia- there's two black vows because R&D has tried to ween off of intimidate and other mechanics like protection from [color] and likely didn't want to include it in Commander Legends).
b. More aggressive and prone to cause kamikaze-style attacks, the Impetuses are similar to the vows but definitely play very differently. Martial Impetus , Shiny Impetus , and Parasitic Impetus could even be considered removal for multiple creatures in combat if you flash them out with Sigarda's Aid.
c. Curses: Marchesa was the most popular commander for curses until Ghen, Arcanum Weaver was released. Curse of Chaos encourages the player with a shitty hand to swing in a bit. Curse of Bloodletting punishes the opponent who is too far ahead. Curse of Shallow Graves is cool at a table with Gedan's Varina, Lich Queen deck. The curses from Commander 2017- Curse of Opulence and Curse of Disturbance are the best in your deck as they also give you something when your opponent attacks them too. These are really the only curses that fit the theme and psychology of your deck by not making you a target IMO, but .
Removal: You have some "soft" enchantment synergy going on, so you might as well make it more broad. You're in the late game, you've got all your powerhouse enchantments in order and extra mana... why not cast Idyllic Tutor for whatever removal would smooth out your schemes? Darksteel Mutation shuts down commanders. Seal of Cleansing can be recurred with Hall of Heliod's Generosity . Dark Banishing is honestly a better run for your cash over Bedevil ... you're supposed to be able to convince those opponents to remove the black creature ;)
Individual cards: Gedan has a Rite of the Raging Storm you could get. Wishclaw Talisman is more on theme than Diabolic Tutor or cheaper than Infernal Tutor . This is the only deck I wanna see those and Grim Tutor in since I know what you tutor for will actually be interesting and not a combo piece. Sphere of Safety would be impenetrable and bait removal if you have the mana for it. I have a foil Keeper of the Accord somewhere but I don't know where it is. Commander's Sphere as a budget option for Chromatic Lantern , and if you build a solid budget land base the draw effect would be better (adding but lantern but not replacing would be good eventually)
Some cards I'd remove or wanted to comment on, but understand maybe stylistic or preferred: Sunforger can be a cool aikido spell tutor at instant speed. However, looking at your white instants, you have to spend 3 and then RW to save yourself with Angel's Grace . That could be a cool maneuver. I was also going to suggest dropping Akroma's Will until I saw Sunforger... that's fucking cool too, especially game changing after blockers are declared. Otherwise you're Mortify ing a creature, having your opponent talk to the Deflecting Palm , or Tear ing an enchantment in half. Batwing Brume wouldn't do anything with Sunforger. Therefore Sunforger basically has two game-changing effects and three utility effects, but I'd suggest keeping an eye on Sunforger to see how often the 3RW cost is available and worth it. The fewer cards you're dependent on, the more decentralized your strategy is, making it way harder to compete against (I'm saying this both critically and in favor of Sunforger- just keep it in mind). Torment of Hailfire wins you the game, but isn't gonna be less than $15 in the next couple years. You might not need it. Revival / Revenge can make you one of six creatures or one of three opponents an enemy- it seems like there are better cards you could play. Revel in Riches makes you a threat that your opponents need to race against, and I (genuinely) don't know if that's a position you want or if you want to maintain your monarch status. Try to think of when you want to win with this deck- by beating down your opponents individually, by beating them all at once, by spontaneously winning, or by drawing the game out for as long as possible and having the best resources throughout the game.
I haven't been able to analyze most of my own decks this intensively in a while, your design is competitive while still unique and interesting. Knowing your play style and how well it fits to this too also helps me suggest cards- it's the difference between auto-generating a deck from EDHRec and building a deck. I haven't been super inspired in the decks I've been building for myself, but this one of yours has me just as interested in the game as you now.
1 year ago
There’s also Infernal Tutor, but hellbent is kind of a big downside.
1 year ago
So I understand the concept of what you are going for here, but I don't understand a lot of the choices you have. Are you just trying to pull this off for kicks? Seems hard given that lot of land bases have snow and regular versions of basics, not to mention shocklands and other utility lands. Gonna need to get all your splinters to be getting the job done. Gotta say though, the Infernal Tutor is an interesting way to make that happen.
Here are my thoughts on trying to make this a little more competitive.
- Change Diabolic Tutor to Mastermind's Acquisition. Same cost and lets you get things from a sideboard.
2.Panoptic Mirror Why wouldn't you want to splinter combo every turn?
- Adding Karn, the Great Creator. Shuts off your opponents artifacts and lets you tutor for other cards like Ensnaring Bridge to help keep you in the game.
I have several other ideas if you are legitimately looking to improve this deck. Just let me know if budget will be a concern.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Might want to consider running 2x Bontu's Monument and 4x Myr Retriever With Heartless Summoning it goes infinite granted you have 2 of them, which comes to the tutoring idea. Most of the tutors in Modern aren't the greatest in B R G colors. I'd recommend dropping Red for White, grab yourself some Eladamri's Call Infernal Tutor (works great with Myr Retriever or Superion depending on whether you have Heartless out or Heartless+Bontu's. Path of Exile With white could be helpful as well.
2 years ago
Vman nice to meet you sir, it would seem were brothers in arms. I'm not exactly new to 8 rack anymore, I've been playing this list for a year or 2 now (I should probably update my deck description here since I made it when I first posted this deck back then). I occasionally get grunts and groans for playing it, but in my experience its less because the deck is a 'bad experience deck' (though I certainly see why it is and should be) and more because people don't see it as a 'real deck' and want to play against something stronger to practice for their gps. I sincerely enjoy watching those people writhe on the rack.
Alot of the changes you're suggesting I make are actually things I've gone away from over time due to my own experiences. For example, I used to run 4x Raven's Crime , and I agree it's one of the most powerful discard spells in the deck (I personally think it's second to Smallpox ). I went down to a 3 of not because I doubt it's power, but because each copy I draw after the first is effectively a land with fewer options. 3 allows me to consistently get to the first one, and less consistently just have my hand flooded with them.
Once upon a time I played Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek both as 4 ofs, and found that they weren't worth it. Turn 1-2 they're great options, but after I throw off my opponents early game I don't much care what they discard as long as they do, in fact, discard. Mid-late game after I have my opponent top decking helplessly, I found that when they drew a land they'd hold it, knowing that lands are the hardest things for me to make them discard, so when I draw a Thoughtseize and cast in an attempt to keep them on the rack I'm literally almost bolting myself for no purpose. I decided 6 of these was the number that allowed me consistently have one or 2 of them in my opening hand but not rely on them so much later. So far it's working out for me.
Infernal Tutor has only ever over performed for me. I frequently run with no cards in hand, so it's effectively a demonic tutor. And if a card is powerful enough to get restricted in vintage, I damn sure want it in modern. If I don't have hellbent, i hold it until I do. The only time it doesn't work out for me is if I have the misfortune of drawing the second while I'm still holding the first (which is why I only run 2 of it) in which case I'll often use one to tutor for a lili or a removal spell. Less good because I'm limited in what I tutor for. But still good. There's been exactly one instance where I had to fail to find a third copy of Infernal Tutor to keep my hand size down for bridge, but even that was fine because more often than not bridge is what I tutor for with hellbent.
Delirium Skeins I agree is generally more of a sideboard card, and more often than not it's one of the first things I board out. I originally had all 3 copies in my sideboard... I think I swapped it with the 2 Dismember s if memory serves. I find myself using dismember entirely too rarely, and when I get the rest of the cards I want for my sb it's on the chopping block. It's possible that maybe delirium skeins will be moved back to the SB someday, for now it's sorta main deck worthy... ish
The land issue you mention is sorta the one I've been running into. I'm guessing you found my deck from my post in the forums, in which case you probably saw that my lands are on the working list. I intend to cut the Mutavault s as soon as I find a better working alternative for an alt win con. I'm toying with the idea of Liliana's Caress as a 2 of. Something that allows me to still use it if I have to hide behind bridge. Plan for now is to have my 4 colorless lands be ghost quarters to help keep tron off their game and make sure revolt is easy to come by for Fatal Push . Plus I know from experience how much fun it is to ghost quarter 3 of their lands and use Shadow of Doubt to deny them their search, have to assume it's more fun with 4.
The actual number of my lands I may consider working on, there have been a couple games where I've been forced to smallpox aggressively due to them being the primary discard spell I drew in my opening hand and it took me a while to recover. I'll have to look for some cuts to make room for more lands
...and you thought YOUR post was a wall of text XD
2 years ago
Hello there good sir, I am an avid 8rack player (actually known as the resident "bad player experience" player) around my place specializing in Land destruction, infect, mill and discard. So I may be able to help you out =)
First of all, since im assuming you are still somewhat new to 8rack i just want to make a disclaimer. People will generally not really enjoy playing against you. *rack is the type of deck to cause grunts and make people want to go to the next game. so if you arent the type of player that enjoys seeing others in misery i do suggest picking up a different deck. Overtime it really gets to pilots of 8rack.
Now lets get to the deck:
Firstly i see you are running 21 lands 7 of which are colorless. 8 rack might have a very low curve but its been generally established you should run 23-24 lands (personally im a 24 fan)
Also people have done the math for AAAGGEESSSS. With 4 urborgs and 24 lands its been noted you can have up to 5 colorless sources. Most people only do 4 but some go for the additional 5th as either Field of Ruin , Hostile Desert or Blinkmoth Nexus . Ghost Quarter is cool and fast, but losing lands early unless its pox value does hurt the deck.
heres a few more core ideals of 8rack deckbuilding:
Usually theres 6-8 targetted 1 mana removal spells (and you always play these first) the most common form found is 3x Thoughtseize with 4x Inquisition of Kozilek but if budget is a concern Blackmail is the next best choice followed by Duress . I alongside the majority of people run 7 of these cards.
Delirium Skeins is generally a sideboard card. its boarded in versus that leyline that gives hexproof (making your targetted discard worthless) or against controll decks that draw so many cards where 1 for 1 discard isnt good enough. the reason why its not mainboard is because its too slow.
another important note is to play 4x Raven's Crime YES, i know the card looks weak. but that is what every new player to 8rack feels like. but ask any veteran and its easily one of the most important and best cards in the deck. many times on turn 2 will you ravens crime into discarding a land for another activation. assuming you were on the draw and played a 1 mana discard spell t1, and your opponent played 2 spells and 2 lands hes 1 card away from being hellbent already. the card makes lategame lands fodder and its easy to discard to smallpox or lily. PLAY 4 NO QUESTION.
Infernal Tutor is a card some people like, some dont. most people who do like it usually have it as a 1 of but ive never played with it personally so i cannot really comment on it.
This seems like quite a wall of text already, so feel free to ask any specific questions you may have, im always glad to help. also, 8rack is a deck that requires alot of practice to win hard matchups with. so be patient =)
2 years ago
APPLE01DOJ thank you so much! I had tried Infernal Tutor x1 and so long as I was hellbent it was great but usually it was lack luster. which do you prefer of the 2 mentioned. I think mastermind might be really good, but then again beseech is great as well. I had tested online with Liliana, the Last Hope and had her on the first version. as I was redoing the deck I guess I forgot to add her. Trinisphere is nuts and wouldn't hurt us. What do you think of this version? Thank you for your time and suggestions.
MarioSmallszs I read my previous comment to you and meant to write that she did help which is why I added her back to the deck. Thank you again for the suggestions and your time.