Ok I have read and re-read all the comments, and have been following this thread since it started. Is Purphoros, God of the Forge a tier 1? No. Is he badass? YES! He was my first EDH general. And damn was he fun. Throw an Urbrask the hidden and bunch of goblins in there and we are rocking. But I am a red player at heart. I like the haste. I like the burn. I like the destruction that red brings. The problem with purphy is the enchantment linked to him. If he was just a straight up creature, he would dominate like the god he is. But you need to bow to him (build up red loyalty). His ability is sick which makes him a staple in any XXR deck out there.

How do Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Tasigur, the Golden Fang end up on the tier 1 list? I feel Teferi, Temporal Archmage is a joke. And Tasigur, the Golden Fang needs U or G to work. so it doesn't make him general potential, just a supporter.

Teferi staxy is a very consistent deck that is more than deserving of t1 status. It runs mans accelerants and cards like Stasis along with disruption spells to take the game early. As for Tasigur, I'm not familiar, but I think the Navicron combo may have something to do with it.

DasTree: Its not "needing U or G" for Tasigur. Think of it as "having access to U or G". BUG (or sultai) is one of the most powerful colour combinations in the format. Tasigur's power comes from his ability to gain access to your entire deck once you have infinite mana. Not to mention being able to cast your commander for potentially one mana is super strong.

tasigur wins instantly the second he gets infinite colored, he puts your entire deck into your hand and Reality Shifts away all enemies libraries at instant speed, this is easily possible to do because he has access to the best colors for tutoring and draw., he also has back up plans and runs a decent counter suite.

Tasigur may win the game with infinite mana, but he is otherwise an overcosted mana sink that does almost nothing useful until you achieve infinite mana. Sidisi, brood tyrant has much more utility in the early and mid game and she can win the game with the same infinite combo's tasigur uses. If Tasigur is tier 1, then Sidisi has to be. I think DasTree may not be aware that tasigur is not a mono black commander but IDK maybe I am misreading him

@Lilbrudder not really. with infinite mana he can do a LOT more than sidisi and like sidisi hes in the colors that can easily produce infinite mana. the difference here is that because he does so much more in different ways and usually faster, hes less vulnerable to different types of removal or stoppage.

@DasTree: Teferi is currently the strongest mono blue commander in the format. His -1 is game-breakingly powerful in a stax shell, and can go infinite with The Chain Veil.

I think the time has come to do some house cleaning in Tier 1. First on the agenda: Azami, Lady of Scrolls. She's been long overdue for a demotion. She was never amazing to begin win. With the mulligan change, she took a large hit. She takes too long to set up to still be deserving of her spot. There's no reason to play her over Teferi in anything resembling a control shell since he does it better, and as a devoted combo deck, both Arcum and JVP far outstrip her. I vote she be demoted to Tier 2.

DERPLINGSUPREME: I respectfully disagree. Unless I am mistaken, the easiest and most common way I have seen Tasigur go infinite is with some variant of Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron combo. Sidisi can also win the game with those cards. Just bounce her until you mill Dread Return sac 3 zombies to reanimate Eternal Witness or Rune-Scarred Demon then you can either use Venser, Shaper Savant or Terastodon followed by Massacre Wurm to get rid of every permanent thats not yours. The only advantage tasigur has is instant speed. Unless I am missing something that tasigur does, Sidisi can also assemble those combo's faster since she uses the same tutors, has more creatures to ensure Survival of the Fittest always has targets can better utilize Birthing Pod to assemble the combo and provides you with free creatures to sac to cards like Phyrexian Tower, Victimize and Dread Return.

i think you are underestimating the power of infinite instants at instant speed, and true use of tasigur as a commander. i'm not saying sidisi shouldn't be t1 per se, but tasigur is t1 for a reason, and his combo and possibly low cost with delve is quite good.

i would like to vote to move Azami down as well, she is very good, but her reliance on creatures and slight weakness to stax make her a tad slow and unreliable.

i would like to vote to move Azami down as well, she is very good, but her reliance on creatures and slight weakness to stax make her a tad slow and unreliable.

Hotcake_Gotsyrup: I get that his end game is quite powerful, but his ability is soo bad without infinite mana and his cheap delve cost is very relevant in 1v1 and modern, but not so much in multiplayer EDH. Like you I am not saying he isn't tier 1. BUG is such an incredibly overpowered wedge that I honestly think it can support 4 tier 1 generals. I am simply saying that overall (early, mid, and late game) Sidisi is a better general than Tasigur.

Tasigur's delve ability allows him to cleanse his graveyard of unwanted targets for his recursion ability, making it slightly better, which in turn begins refilling his graveyard should he need to be cast again.

His delve ability isn't always extremely relevant, but it has its uses. Being able to put a 6-drop into play for can be useful. Easy fuel for Podding into Sheoldred or Palinchron, sacking to Victimize or Diabolic Intent, or even boosting Cradle a bit.

His main focus is indeed his synergy with infinite colored mana though. Being able to win at instant speed off of multiple easily assembled combos without having to run extra cards like Damia does makes him worthy of his spot in my opinion.

I'm not sold on SBT being moved up. I built her, and tinkered with her a fair amount. Her synergy with Hermit Druid combo, and her Four Horsement-esque combo with Mesmeric Orb + Aphetto Alchemist, make her fairly strong. Her utility outside of said combos is pretty good as well. It's not Tier 1 good though.

The other thing worth mentioning about Tasigur's ability is that it can be played very politically. Sure, most of the time your opponents won't give you what you want but when somebody is casting Tooth and Nail, if you activate the ability I'm sure another player will give you a counterspell.

Sidisi's biggest issue is that she lends herself to too many builds. I have found there are essentially 4 strong ways to make a Sidisi Deck

1) All in graveyard combo deck: Dredge and self mill out the ass. Runs 40+ creatures. Extremely explosive at times but inconsistent. Simply crushes opponents in card advantage and board state. Occassionally goes Laboratory Maniac but often Craterhoof Behemoth smashes the board by turns 5-7. Downside, loses to fast combo decks gets crushed by gravehate at times. (Weak tier 2 to strong tier 3 build).

2) Focused activated ability combo deck. Necrotic Ooze, 4 horseman combo. and Hermit Druid. Less susceptable to grave hate due to Entomb, Intuition, Buried Alive and more focused graveyard filling cards. Can win by turns turns 2-6. Gets annihilated by Blood Moon, Back to Basics etc. Sometimes mills self to death when Laboratory Maniac fails. Runs alot of obvious combo creatures that have almost no utility outside the combo dead cards 50% of the time). Sometimes runs small number of creatures (15 to 25) which renders Sidisi as a sort of a figurehead outside of combos as well. (Mid to strong tier 2).

3) Focused triggered ability or "enter the battlefield" effects version. Same as activated abilities version tutor wise. Playstyle is much more focused on adapting to game situation and striking unexpectedly. Can smash face in a midrange game but also capable of turn 2-6 combos. Uses Deadeye Navigator and Ghostly Flicker as etb abuse engines. All combo pieces are great cards in most phases of the game. Sidisi plays an integral role, but deck functions well without her. Key cards are super cheap black Reanimate and green Regrowth effects that make Yawgmoth's Will gg pretty much all day. Gets shut down at times to Torpor Orb and Containment Priest effects. More susceptable to counterspells than version 2. Overall most versatile, resilient, and powerful build (Tier 1)).

Why Tier 1? Can lockdown key opponents by turns 2 to 4 by combining creatures like terastadon, Massacre Wurm an Kederekt Leviathan with instant speed effects like Necromancy, Flash, Shallow Grave. Can consistently combo win by turns 4 to 5. Wins most games of attrition due to insane card advantage engines and craterhoof behemoth turn 6 to 9 wins.

4) Zombie Tribal, Traumatize other jank... Uh no. Just Joking. 90% of Sidisi decks being played. Not competitive but fun as hell. Mid Tier 3 at best after shadows over innistrad boost.

I'm honestly curious where you'd put my I am not yet dead Lilbrudder

My first impression is that you have a strong build with some excellent synergies. I will take a look at it in the morning, give it a few test runs, and give you some more educated feedback.

To be fair it's intentionally de-powered lol. Just wondering, if I were to continue on the current path, where it would fall on that grading system

Sidisi, Brood Tyrant + Traumatize... One zombie :P

Perhaps I missed this discussion (been busy with school lately) but why is Braids, Conjurer Adept in tier 4 (as opposed to tier 3)?

Yes, she ultimately depends on the attack phase to win and there are no explicit combos with her (minus Paradox Haze) which probably keeps her out of competitive play but a shrouded braids with some card draw/counterspell/bounce all the while throwing horrible control creatures like Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur or Void Winnower into play for free (thus keeping your mana open for all that other control) seems like a general that is tier 3 worthy.. I mean Ojutai, Soul of Winter is somehow still in tier 3 but having a general that sneaks into play the scariest creatures in blue/colorless somehow isn't? Is there something I'm missing?

And I forgot to mention it in the last post but yes I am clear her ability applies to all players. It's just that you are in the perfect colors to bounce (or mass bounce), steal creatures, and clone creatures so it seems like that downside can be easily overcome.

The fact you have to wait a full turn cycle in a 4 player pod and that any of those players could simply play blightsteel or half of DE-P combo and then kill her and instawin is far too dangerous. if you want to cheat monsters into play, Jalira, Master Polymorphist is probably better, and less likely to backfire.it is almost the same reason maralen is t4. too slow, and allows opponents to instawin

Okay, late on the discussions cause I was out, but for Azami, Lady of Scrolls, I also vote for moving her down, and will do it after I'm finished writing this comment :p

@OhthenoisesThe way you are building Purphoros storm seems pretty interesting... Do you have a list yet? Or at least the beginning of something? Else I think I might also start working on something...

@KriegerYYZPretty sure you already did, but if you check up the deck that was linked, you will see why. The idea is to have spell countered, and you still get your artifacts. Blood Funnel and cie. I do not know the deck really well, but after a quick checkup, it is good enough to be tier 3.

@rockleemyheroWe already had some big discussions involving Rafiq, but as a couple other generals, he ended up being tier 3 because of the voltron strategy. This is a multiplayer list (mainly based on 4 players pods), and while Rafiq is really great, voltron can't kill 3 other players as easily in multiplayer. If it was a 1vs1 list though, he would probably be ranked much higher.

@DasTreeTeferi definitely is and will stay tier 1. He easily is the best mono-blue commander, his stax game is really strong, and he has control and combo available to him. Just give him a try (look in the description and try to goldfish with the list provided) and you should understand.

I also am not sold on Sidisi being tier 1. I find that Tasigur is much more versatile, has way better control simply because of his ability. It has been stated before, but you can also play him politically, a thing that Sidisi cannot really do... I think that Sidisi is good where she is in tier 2 and Tasigur will stay tier 1.

Sorry for the double post, but here is what I have written so far for Purphoros Storm. Only 3 cards in the deck, but I am also writting a description at the same time. Please post all your ideas on it and I will put it togheter later (need to go work now).

Purphoros Storm

Commander / EDH* thegigibeast

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