I feel angus is a tier 1 or 2.

Damia, Sage of Stone to tier 1 though. Bug is the best, and she is the best of bug.

How? Angus Mackenzie doesn't inherently win/lockdown on turns 4-6 (based on the definitions of the tier system. And if he does then it's because of cards that could be run in other Bant commanders.

I find it interesting that Wort, Boggart Auntie is a tier below Wort, the Raidmother. I'd argue that black supports Goblins better than green, and Auntie's abilities seem far more useful. I would say they're both 3rd tier, or at least that their current tiers should be reversed.

Having never actually seen a Raidmother deck in action, I'm curious to know the reasoning behind such a decision.

alecm, Wort isn't about the goblins. It's about stupidly powerful X spells (Especially in green)

I think the with the current tier description, Angus Mackenzie is at the right place on 3. Yes he can stop damage, but what can he do against all the combos that run rampant in the tier 1 that are not all combat damage based? He is still good to play, and a really politic dude, but I think tier 3 is the place for him. I would rather run Derevi, Empyrial Tactician in bant for a really competitive deck.

Angus can't compete with the majority of the generals on Tier 2, ergo, he's not Tier 2. I'm afraid to say it's as simple as that.

Speaking of Tier 2, I noticed a few more potential changes there.

Horde of Notions --> Tier 3. There are obviously superior placeholder commanders when building 5C combo like Scion and Sliver Queen, and the actual deck he helms (Elemental Tribal) is quite weak-- Tier 3 at best.

Mayael the Anima --> Tier 3. Her ability is strong, but it's far too costly to make up for her other weaknesses.

Medomai the Ageless --> Tier 3. Again, strong ability, but his being dependent on dealing combat damage makes him to unreliable, even in a control shell that doesn't entirely rely on him. He's too easily shut down. He's also fairly slow, costing six mana in a color combination with rather poor ramp capabilities. He rarely resolves before turn 3, and rarely wins before turn 7.

Jenara, Asura of War --> Tier 3. She's considered weaker than Rafiq. I'm not entirely sure how she escaped my last sweep.

Hanna, Ship's Navigator --> Tier 3. Her ability to recur key artifacts and enchantments is powerful, but having to re-cast them on top of the paying (1)UW to retrieve makes it difficult to use. Coupled with the fact that she can only recur one card per turn further weakens her usefulness. I've seen some fairly resilient stax builds that run her as a commander, but they're significantly weaker than Grand Arbiter Augustin IV's Stax shell, who is also on the Tier list. Thus, I feel Hanna's power more closely equates to those of the tier 3 commanders.

I could see Damia being Tier 1. Most know of the premier Damaia deck (Epoch's Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition) and how strong it is. Not quite as strong as Mimeoplasm of course, but that's not an entirely fair comparison since he's sitting near the top of tier 1, and there is a small amount of wiggle room there. She's definitely borderline.

Updated according to your comments! I will also clear comments, because there are too much in my opinion!

sad to see kiku as tier 4 but understandable considering her lack of synergy. I love her as a commander though. my deck just sits their and kills.

Savra likely belongs in tier 3...the decks i've seen with her as a commander are built around her and can hold their own against many of the commanders listed in tiers 2 and 3. i'd even say politics isn't really necessary much of the time for her to pull off a win. Having her out with a sac outlet and some tokens can quickly turn her into the top target.

Just out of curiosity, why does Child of Alara rank as a Tier 2 commander when she has to hit the grave for her ability to trigger rather than the Command zone? Is it the color versatility?

I think that you should redefine what tier five is, because under the current definition, there some legends that do not fit. The most noticeable two are Ambassador Laquatus and Mogis, God of Slaughter. The Ambassador turns infinite colourless mana (which is very easy to achieve) into infinite mill. Usually mill isnt a successful archetype in EDH, but when you can do it an infinite number of times it becomes more reasonable. He should be moved up at least one tier. As for Mogis, his decks tend to be very similar to Kaervek the Merciless, with the difference being that he comes down a couple turns earlier and is more resistant to removal. Kaervek will definitely do more damage in a shorter time frame, but Mogis is very potent at slowly bleeding out the table. I would place them in the same tier.

Indeed. Child of Alara serves as a fairly decent head for a creature-less 5C combo list, as she can be used with minimal support (IE, sac outlets or Vindicate) to reset the board at will and come back from losing scenarios. Some 5C Ad Nauseam, Hermit Druid, and Doomsday combo decks run her because, in the extremely rare cases she is used, her effect ends up being almost entire beneficial due the deck's minimalist board states.

@ Gitaxias86 seconded. I agree she should be moved up to tier 3. She makes a fairly solid sac-based stax commander, though I personally feel she's best used as a supporting card to Meren, Jarad, or Shattergang Brothers. It's fairly easy for her to set up infinite loops that keep boards cleared of creatures.

I also think Ambassador Laquatus should be higher on the list. He has good combo potential

I can't update right now cause I am on my phone, but tommorow I will move some cards around according to your suggestions

Whelp, time to try to tackle Tier 4. I won't look too deeply it most card's placement though due to how little these commanders are used.

Akuta, Born of Ash --> Tier 5

Crosis, the Purger --> Possibly tier 3. He plays fairly well in a control shell, and can decimate mono-colored decks when used properly.

Dakkon Blackblade --> Tier 5. Garbage.

Dromar, the Banisher --> Tier 3. See Crosis.

Halfdane --> Tier 5

Joven --> Tier 5. As hilarious as his artwork is, there's nothing here.

Lady Zhurong, Warrior Queen --> Tier 5

Lieutenant Kirtar --> Tier 5

Lu Bu, Master-at-Arms --> Tier 5

Lu Meng, Wu General --> Tier 5

Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest --> Tier 3. It's quite easy to go infinite with him and overrun each opponent with an enormous creature at the same time.

Meloku the Clouded Mirror --> Tier 5

Merieke Ri Berit: I've seen a lot of debate about this commander here, and to a lesser extent in the previous. I personally think Tier 4 is fair for her, but I can see the justification to bump her up. She can prey upon more casual tables fairly easily. I'll side with the general consensus and vote that she be moved to tier 3.

Mistform Ultimus --> Tier 5. Any combos built with him would be woefully inefficient. Aside from a few extremely niche scenarios, I can't see him being of any value to a deck whatsoever.

Nin, the Pain Artist --> Tier 3. Surprisingly, she's fairly strong. Removal and card advantaged as needed for the low drop cost of 2 mana. As far as I know, the best build for her is a control shell that uses the classic Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron combo to win. Nin herself helps in the mid and early game by pinging opponent's key utility creatures to death and sacking her own smaller creatures for hefty hand refills. In other words, she plays like a much weaker Damia, Sage of Stone, having a lesser color identity and weaker ability.

Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper --> Tier 3. He's essentially a slightly Talrand, Sky Summoner with a superior color identity. No reason for him to not be in the same tier as his merfolk kinsman.

Rakdos, Lord of Riots --> Tier 3. The casting restriction hurts a little, but the Animar-esque ability to cast Eldrazis and other enormous creatures for free makes him moderately successful.

Savra, Queen of the Golgari --> Tier 3. Reasons previously stated.

Sen Triplets --> Tier 3. By themselves, they are fairly mediocre. They are not played for their ability to steal cards though. Instead, they're used for their ability to Silence an opponent. Until Oloro was released, Triplets were the premiere commander for Esper Ad Nauseam and other combo decks, as their ability allowed them to prevent opponent most likely to interrupt their combo from interacting. Oloro ultimately proved to be marginally stronger in this regard due to his infuriating life gain and ability to play king of the pillow fort until he could assemble his combo. The Triplets are still an extremely viable alternative though, much as Sliver Queen is a viable alternative to Scion of the Ur-Dragon for 5C combo. Definitely worthy of a Tier 3 placement.

Soramaro, First to Dream --> Tier 5. Almost straight junk, despite blue's draw power.

Soraya the Falconer --> Tier 5.

Spirit of the Night --> Tier 5.

Sunastian Falconer --> Tier 5.

Surrak Dragonclaw --> Tier 3. Surprisingly relevant abilities in a sturdy color identity, particularly if blue control is dominant at the table. He's obviously strictly weaker than Animar, but he's still quite usuable at lower levels of play.

Tariel, Reckoner of Souls: Extremely borderline. I vote Tier 3, though she would be at the lower end of it. When used correctly, she can be fairly effective in smaller matches, but she grows weaker the larger the table is due to the random nature of her ability. She also does poorly at higher levels of play simply because big, durdly creatures are played less often and thus she has fewer relevant targets.

Admittedly, she's stronger than a fair portion of the current Tier 3 list, but that will be changed later with any luck as the Tier is further refined.

Crosis, the Purger and Dragonlord Ojutai should be tier 3. Neither are hyper competitive, but both can be built into really strong decks.

I've seen Crosis at the helm of some super powerful cruel control decks, especially with Painter's Servant.

Ojutai is also great at the helm of a stax/ control deck that uses him as a quick finisher, with some voltron.

I believe Painter's Servant is banned @Kryzis

kameenook not in Duel Commander.

NarejED, I think Dakkon Blackblade is tier 4, he's done in good stuff control decks and is used as the finisher/back up. He does bring stuff to the table, just not too much.

I am pretty happy with tier 1 except Roon. I really feel he is tier 2, but close enough.

Also, I think there should be a separate list for the Originals. The 5 elder dragons. They are so bad, but deserve a little side mention.

I could easily do that ;)

Gonna update the lists later on and we will then have a discussion about Roon of the Hidden Realm

Dakkon Blackblade costs six mana, and his stats are based off of the number of lands you control.

If he had green in his color identity, I would be inclined to agree that he belongs in Tier 4. However, he's in Esper: the color combination that (in general) relies the most artifacts of any Shard, Wedge, or Guild. Lands counts are kept low, and there's very little support in the color combination for any sort of "lands matter" strategies, which is what Dakkon would need to be playable.

He brings absolutely nothing to the table on his own besides an over-costed, typically mediocre body, which is precisely what most of the commanders in Tier 5 do.

So... are these up for discussion? Because someone really needs to explain to me how Numot, the Devastator, Teneb, the Harvester, and Progenitus all made it to tier 2.

Rosheen Meanderer, Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens, and Tibor and Lumia should all be moved to tier 4. Rosheen makes a decent X spell deck, T & L do silly things when you give them deathtouch and have Archetype of Imagination, and, believe it or not, there are actually enough commander-playable spirit and arcane spells in white to enable a decent token deck out of Oyobi. None of these guys are particularly strong, but they're definitely not unplayable either.

I agree with moving Roon to tier 2. He's good, but he's limited to one bounce a turn, is mana intensive, and is subject to summoning sickness. Brago far outpaces him, and can use colorless ramp so effectively that you barely notice the loss of green.

Savra, Queen of the Golgari is tier 3 worthy. She keeps your opponent's boards clear and has access to some of the best recursion, removal, and draw in the game.

If Oona, Queen of the Fae is tier 2 then Tasigur, the Golden Fang should be too. Most competitive Oona decks pack in every infinite mana combo available for the the insta-win. Tasigur has the same strategy available to him, but gets the addition of green for extra combos and tutors. I'd say that makes him better.

Personally, I think Zedruu the Greathearted is actually tier 3 (or even 2) worthy, and that the problem is just that everyone keeps making tier 4 decks out of her. An optimized Zedruu list can be really controlling and mean. It's just that everyone sees giving away stuff and either thinks chaos or that she's just terrible.

How is Talrand, Sky Summoner tier 3 and Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper not? He's basically the same deck but with the addition of white.

Also, if Crosis, the Purger gets moved to tier 3, then so should Nicol Bolas, as they basically employ the same strategy.

(I'd also recommend Teysa, Orzhov Scion to be tier 2, but I'd be breaking rule 1.)

Personally I like your list.

I run both, Dralnu, Lich Lord and Melek, Izzet Paragon EDH decks. And I agree 99.9% that Dralnu is Tier 4 and Melek is Tier 2.

(Melek, Izzet ParagonTier 2) is better on its own and can steal the game, but his high mana cost hits him hard.Dralnu, Lich Lord is strong (only) on late game, when we have more counters (both, hand and graveyard) than other players cards on their hands (combined). So, Dralnu can be only seen as back up plan.

Commander is far more than just a "tier". Despite knowing that both of my commanders, Melek and Dralnu, are far from be the best, I still like them (pictures and/or unique effects). So, if your favourite legends are not tier 1, do not be sad.

Well done, keep it up! ;)

Melek is tier 2? ...How? He's abysmally slow.