Teneb, the Harvester
Legendary Creature — Dragon
Whenever Teneb, the Harvester deals combat damage to a player, you may pay . If you do, put target creature card in a graveyard into play under your control.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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Teneb, the Harvester Discussion
2 months ago
Black and white are my two favorite colors in this game, so, naturally, I am excited about the cards in the black and white deck.
Tempting contract is nice, but very unreliable, so I am not certain if I can put it into any of my current decks.
Felisa, fang of Silverquill is nice, but nothing spectacular, and I notice that many cards that are associated with Silverquill generate inkling tokens, just as many cards that are associated with Quandrix generate fractal tokens.
I do not like the wording on combat calligrapher; would it really have taken up too much space to write “whenever a creature attacks one of your opponents, its controller creates…etc.?”
Return to Dust has already been reprinted numerous times, so I dearly wish that WotC had instead reprinted Heliod's Intervention in this set, since that card has been printed only once, and is better in the majority of situations.
Guardian archon is definitely a great card, but its controller shall need to find a way to “flicker” it to truly get great value from it, but that should not be difficult to do, in white. I also like that this is the second card in the game with the text “secretly choose an opponent” and “activate this ability only once,” after Stalking Leonin .
Nils, discipline enforcer is a perfect example of white’s authoritarian nature, and he will definitely be annoying for many players whose decks rely upon putting +1/+1 counters on their creatures; I have a deck with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice as the general, so he could definitely hinder that deck, if I cannot deal with him, quickly. At least he does not have flash, because that would make him ridiculous.
Promise of loyalty will definitely lead to some very complicated political dealings in games that have more than two players, so I will be interested to see how it works.
Sponsorship scholar is another example of how card advantage works in white, and, even better, it allows players to search for any basic lands, not merely plains! Finally, WotC is making white more powerful and helping it to reach the other colors in terms of power!
I really like author of shadows; first, that artwork is amazing, and, second, the effect is very sinister, and will definitely turn the tide of a game, if used properly.
Bold plagiarist is the latest in a long line of cards that punish players who seek to gain advantage, but, at least, this one does not actually stop them from gaining advantage; it merely copies their advantage. Why is it that the opponent is the one who places the counters on the plagiarist, and not the controller of the plagiarist?
In a similar manner, cunning rhetoric is a continuation of black’s ability to discourage an opponent from attacking one’s self, and punishing them, if they do.
Fain, the broker, has serious potential for powerful combos, and could definitely lead to major shifts in games if used properly.
Incarnation technique would be good for either my Mimeoplasm or my Teneb, the Harvester decks, but I cannot remove and existing cards to make room for it.
With keen duelist, I first am very glad that there are still black wizards in this game, now that warlocks are a creature type, and, second, a symmetrical Dark Confidant will definitely lead to some major politics and bargains between players, and it should go without saying that the best way to use it is with the ability to manipulate your own deck, such as with Crystal Ball or Sensei's Divining Top .
Stinging study is a nice way to take advantage of a general with a higher casting cost, especially if that general has been sent back to the command zone at least once, and has become too expensive to reliably recast; given that that card costs 5 mana to cast, I say that a player should have a general with a converted mana cost of at least 5 to truly get good value from it.
Inkshield is like Batwing Brume on steroids, but its high mana cost does mean that it will require strategy and careful timing to be used most effectively; I personally think that it could have cost 4 mana and still have been perfectly balanced.
As for the reprints, did we really need another reprint of Zetalpa, Primal Dawn or Sun Titan ? However, the reprints of Utter End , Oblation , Magister of Worth , and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea are all welcome, and I am glad that WotC has finally reprinted Deathbringer Liege , because that card very badly needed to be reprinted.
Overall, WotC has really increased the quality of this year’s Commander product, compared to those from previous years, so I hope that every Commander product has this level of quality, from this point forward.
3 months ago
Looks a very fun deck Patraxa.
I love Teneb, the Harvester , back in the high school,when Planar Chaos was released I used to play him a lot in abzan crappy decks (in an invented format, something like a multiplayer budget legacy, hahaha).
Only, I think you should smooth and enlarge the mana base, and with a average Converted Mana Cost of 3,86, you really should add at least 36-37 lands. You have a vere nice ramp section, but if you don't draw land cards... Also, all your mana ramp cards are green, so consider to add more forests / green mana lands than swamps or plains to secure you don't draw forests or green mana lands and you can't ramp with your green ramp spells.
4 months ago
Hey, really well done on a budget. I presume you're Luiz Felipe Santarem?
Some budget upgrades to consider:
- Court of Bounty --> Colossal Majesty
- Faeburrow Elder --> Wayfarer's Bauble
- Jodah, Archmage Eternal --> Crucible of Fire
- Teneb, the Harvester --> Darigaaz Reincarnated
- Dragonlord Ojutai --> Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
- Savage Ventmaw --> Broodmate Dragon
- Fierce Empath --> Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge
- Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner --> Dragonlord's Servant
- Haunting Voyage --> Fearsome Awakening
- Beast Within --> Despark
Good luck with your deck.
7 months ago
Hey, you're very welcome. I like the changes you've made. You've asked many questions :) I will try to answer each one. In this comment I'll explain the Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo better with some unfortunate changes and I'll answer other questions in another comment later on.
I've given you incorrect information about the combo using Savage Ventmaw. The only way Savage can be part of this combo is if it's already on the battlefield and can attack not tutored for by Scion. You can't change Scion into Savage and then attack, make the 6 mana and then change into another Dragon with Scion. This not how Scion works instead you have to do all the changing into Dragons when you first activate Scion with many activations. If you want to change into multiple Dragons with Scion then you must do it all at the same time. When Scion changes into a Dragon it loses it's original ability to activate/change into a Dragon instead it has all the abilities as well as power/toughness of the Dragon it changed into.
You can get around this by taking advantage of the stack by putting many activations of Scion to change into different Dragons onto the stack and then resolve each trigger one at a time. Each activation is a trigger and when it resolves from the stack will change Scion into that Dragon therefore you can change many times which tutors for and puts many Dragons into your graveyard. This lets you stack many activations with Scion, but you must do it all at once for the combo. The last trigger you resolve Scion will become that Dragon until end of turn.
Taking Savage Ventmaw out of the combo it costs 7 mana. This 7 mana is not including paying 5 for Scion. Scion needs to be on the battlefield already and able to attack. If you want to do this combo with Scion the same turn you play it, if it has haste, then the combo is not worth it since it will cost 12 mana.
7 mana for the combo, this is how it's paid in order , for two activations of Scion and then to reanimate Bladewing with Teneb for a total of 7 mana:
- Attack with Scion.
- At Declare Blockers step pay activate Scion for Bladewing the Risen.
- While that trigger is on the stack, pay activate Scion for Teneb, the Harvester.
- Resolve first Scion trigger which puts Bladewing in your graveyard and resolve the second Scion trigger which puts Teneb in your graveyard.
- Scion is now Teneb, deal combat damage to a player with Teneb.
- Teneb's ability will trigger, resolve Teneb's trigger, pay and reanimate Bladewing.
- Bladewing ETB and reanimates Teneb.
- Scion is Teneb therefore the Legendary Rule will apply when real Teneb is reanimated.
- Choose real Teneb and remove Scion.
- You end up on the battlefield with Teneb and Bladewing with Scion in your graveyard.
The point of this combo is to tutor for and get Teneb onto the battlefield since then he can reanimate Dragons in your graveyard each attack after. The Legendary Rule prevents ending up with both Scion and Teneb on the battlefield because when Teneb is reanimated by Bladewing Scion is Teneb. When this happens the Legendary Rule goes into effect where as you must choose one of the Tenebs and other is removed from the battlefield/put into your graveyard. You will choose real Teneb and let Scion be removed since ending up with real Teneb is the reason you're doing the combo.
You don't want your opponent to block Scion because then Scion can change into Teneb and connect to do combat damage to a player to trigger Teneb. Even if your opponent doesn't block Scion there's still a stop at the Declare Blockers step where you can activate Scion. If opponent does block Scion which could kill Scion as Teneb then activate and change into a different Dragon who will not die in combat if blocked.
4 mana for the combo, this is how it's paid in order , for two activations of Scion and then how ever much you have available or 24 life.
Combo with Atarka:
- Before you attack pay activate Scion for Moltensteel Dragon.
- While that trigger is on the stack, pay activate Scion for Atarka, World Render.
- Resolve first Scion trigger change Scion into Moltensteel, but before you resolve the second Scion trigger activate Moltensteel's pump.
- Pay as much as you have or pay 2 life per activation.
- Activate 12 times that can be a total of 24 life to pump Scion's power +14.
- Resolve second Scion trigger, Scion becomes Atarka with 20 power/4 toughness.
- Attack with Scion who is Atarka gain double strike.
- Do 40 damage to an opponent.
Just like how you can manipulate the stack of triggers with Scion activations you can do that with Moltensteel since it's activation can be pay for at instant speed you can put activations on the stack and resolve them before you resolve the second Scion trigger to change into Atarka. Manipulating the stack means you can move triggers around and resolve them in whatever order you choose. In this case you manipulate the stack to resolve all the Moltensteel pump triggers before you resolve the second Scion trigger that turns Scion into Atarka.
With Atarka, World Render you have to activate Scion before you attack, but with Dragon Tyrant you don't have to because he has double strike and doesn't need to gain it by attacking. If using Tyrant you can change the order of the combo and do it all in combat. You first attack with Scion, if he isn't blocked at Declare Attackers step activate Scion twice first for Moltensteel and then for Tyrant. Resolve first Scion trigger for Moltensteel, then pump, then resolve second Scion trigger for Tryant.
Using Atarka with this combo you give away what you are doing because you must activate Scion before you attack to gain double strike from Atarka. Tyrant you can be more sneaky since you can activate Scion in combat at the last possible time after you know that Scion is not going to be blocked for a lethal Tyrant hit.
Scion doesn't keep abilities of Dragons you change into. After you change into a Dragon Scion loses the abilities of the Dragon before it. The ability that Scion can use is the ability of the Dragon it currently is and only that Dragon. The exception to this is if Scion gains an ability such as double strike from Atarka, World Render or if you pump or add +1/+1 counters to Scion because he's gaining those effects thus they stay with Scion even if it changes into another Dragon.
The way you activate Scion is how the Dragon you want to change into ability reads. If you want Scion to be Ojutai, Soul of Winter then you must change into her before you attack since her ability triggers when attack which means at Declare Attackers step after Combat Phase begins. Atarka, World Render and Utvara Hellkite are same way, you must change into one of them before you declare attackers.
Any Dragon who has a does combat damage to a player ability such as Balefire Dragon you can wait with Scion after you attack. If you attack with Scion and it's not blocked then you can activate it at the Declare Blockers step and change into Balefire before you do combat damage to a player which then will trigger Balefire.
Sorry for the confusion with Scion as it can be a tricky card to play, but because of the stack and instant speed activation you can take real advantage of it's tutor ability with Dragons.
7 months ago
I may need your explanation afterall, I'm trying to figure out how you got to the combo-cost of 11 (or five with Savage Ventmaw)
In general I know the plan is to use Scion of the Ur-Dragon to tutor any dragon I want from my Library to the Graveyard, and then have Teneb, the Harvester put them from the Graveyard onto the Battlefield, and that you get Teneb by using Scion.
What I believe you're trying to do is: Play Scion (5-cost), then have him attack after transforming into Savage Ventmaw (I guess we assume he has haste? If not you wouldn't need to account for the 5 from playing Scion (except for having enough to cast him in the first place, but that probably wouldn't have to be considered for the combo in general?)) then transform into Teneb and optionally use his ability (which you don't seem to have accounted for so in this case no) and then finally, in the second main phase transform him once more into Bladewing the Risen. (For a total of 11 mana: 6 for transformations (covered by Savage Ventmaw) and the 5 from casting Scion.)
With Bladewing though, upon re-reading, would that work? Because Bladewing's ability is an ETB trigger, Scion's text reads: "...becomes a copy of that card..." Since Scion is already on the battlefield, wouldn't that fail to trigger Scion(as Bladewing)'s ability?
In short your math leads me to believe you intend to bring Teneb back from the Graveyard via a copied Bladewing, although I don't think that would work because of the trigger requirement.
An alternative solution (assuming Scion(as Teneb)'s attack lands on the player) is to use the copied Teneb's ability to revive the actual Teneb, which including the mysterious 5 mana and Savage ventmaw is only one more (specifically black) mana to cast.
Your continued guidance is greatly appreciated. I think I've finalised my deck, barring more advice and post-assembly adjustments like additional land or removal.
7 months ago
Hey, well done with precon upgrade on a budget.
Scion of the Ur-Dragon is one of the best Dragons for Dragon tribal being a repeatable Dragon tutor. Scion could replace Wardscale Dragon. Scion's ability to change into a Dragon can be done at instant speed which means during combat you can change into different Dragons whenever there's a stop at a combat phase.
Scion's ability goes well with Savage Ventmaw, Teneb, the Harvester and Bladewing the Risen which is a three Dragon combo to end up with Scion and cheat Teneb/Bladewing on the battlefield. Then if Teneb lives he can reanimate other Dragons you tutor for with Scion. Savage is part of the combo because you tutor for him first with Scion, before you attack which then gives you 6 mana to activate Scion three times during combat. The combo takes 11 mana therefore Savage making 6 mana means you only need 5 mana for other sources. Would you like me to explain this combo?
Consider cutting a few of the least good Dragons for more Dragon support? Rhythm of the Wild and Temur Ascendancy are in the maybeboard and they could replace two Dragons such as Vorosh, the Hunter and Darigaaz Reincarnated. The repeatable effects of Rhythm and Ascendancy are much better than what these Dragons can provide. Faeburrow Elder is also in the maybeboard and it's a much better ramp source than Mana Geode. Crux of Fate and Eerie Ultimatum are also in the maybeboard they could replace Spit Flame and Palace Siege.
There's 20 lands here of the 36 that will always ETB tapped which is a lot. The Tri lands on a budget are worth always ETB tapped, the rest are not. My advice is cut the Bounce lands and Scry lands for other types of lands. The combination of lots of Tri lands and Bounce lands is not good; play either one, not both in the same manabase.
Exotic Orchard is budget staple Rainbow land. By adding a few more basic lands then the 5 Battle lands are budget options since they have interaction with lots of basic lands. Cinder Glade, Smoldering Marsh, Sunken Hollow, Prairie Stream, Canopy Vista, can get each of these for less than $2 at TCGPlayer with Vista being the most expensive.
Manabase upgrades to consider:
- Add 2x Forest > Temple of Malady and Temple of Triumph
- Exotic Orchard > Temple of Epiphany
- Cinder Glade > Gruul Turf
- Smoldering Marsh > Rakdos Carnarium
- Prairie Stream > Orzhov Basilica
- Sunken Hollow > Izzet Boilerworks
You have Farseek and it can search for one of these Battle lands which is helpful for color fixing.
Good luck with your deck.
8 months ago
Something new: Kathril, Aspect Warper
Not obscure enough? Teneb, the Harvester
Something different: Selvala, Explorer Returned
8 months ago
Scion of the Ur-Dragon. so many neat interactions like transforming into different things when unblocked depending on the situation. surprise Balefire Dragon, nichol bolas, or even Moltensteel Dragon then Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon in the same turn for instant KO. or Teneb, the Harvester to reanimate something.
or i just dump all my mana into the ability during an opponents end step right before my turn, to load up the grave for a Patriarch's Bidding or Primevals' Glorious Rebirth with a haste guy like Dragonlord Kolaghan or Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. this also triggers a ton of damage off of Scourge of Valkas and Dragon Tempest