Need An Answer To My Meta
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 6, 2018, 8:32 p.m. by DrukenReaps
So a friend of mine has built Zacama, Primal Calamity and while all my decks can win against him he is winning too much for my liking. My decks cannot consistently answer his ability to cast his commander and wipe away most of my permanents every game. It is ridiculous how much mana he can get...
Anyways some of my initial thoughts are to build around one of the following: Bontu the Glorified, Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, or Rhonas the Indomitable.
All of these are untouchable by zacama in some way. There are other options and some of those are really strong decks that would pound zacama most games but I am not looking to one up my friend. I just want something that I have consistent access to so that I'm still in the game when Zacama comes out to play.
DrukenReaps says... #3
LordBlackblade my Divine Decree and Should I Pretend This Or That? are what I play the most. Sometimes they work great but it'd simply be easier to play something that can't get zacamad out of the game as easy.
I'm not looking for a silver-bullet as much as a Dino-resistant-shield.
November 6, 2018 9:14 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #4
Suppression Field, Prison Term, and other type effects, possible commander hate in the form of Nevermore, Darksteel Mutation, Gideon's Intervention, Null Chamber, etc could work in Marchesa. Even Cursed Totem, but for Mairsil, you will have to look elsewhere.
Mairsil is harder, I guess Imprisoned in the Moon?
November 6, 2018 9:18 p.m.
LordBlackblade says... #5
One thing we can look at exploiting is Zacama, Primal Calamity's high CMC. Unless your opponent is somehow cheating him out, they've got to have nine mana. You can go two ways with that, land destruction (not my forte) or cheap removal.
With Black in both of your existing decks, a few cheap removal cards could quickly make Zacama much too expensive for repeated castings e.g. Go for the Throat. A couple more interesting Black options are Deathgrip for some serious Green hate and the always unexpected Withering Boon.
In Mairsil, Blue gives you access to the best answer of all: counterspells. While the argument is overused that counters are the answer to everything, I think this is a case where they are a very good option to consider.
I'm also going to second SynergyBuild's suggestion of Darksteel Mutation. I run a couple decks that are highly commander focused and this card absolutely hoses them one it sticks.
November 6, 2018 9:47 p.m.
Pithing Needle plus the cards SynergyBuild mentioned. To shut zacama down. Or play blue with a lot of counterspells. Or play steal cards like In Bolas's Clutches, Dominate and such.
November 7, 2018 2:10 a.m.
rob_shifflett says... #7
Gather Specimens and Aethersnatch seem really good here.
November 7, 2018 3:41 a.m.
Meteor Golem or Shivan Meteor for flavor reasons.
But a more serious answer would to just stop him be able to abuse his abilities. People made suggestions especially to keep your answers versatile. You just gonna make yourself weaker vs other desk and piss off your friend if your gonna be running hate SPECIFICALLY for his deck.
Doomblade effects might help but a deck that ramps as much as a zacama, you will jusy delay him a turn or 2. You should still run cheap ones but again, have versatile removal.
November 7, 2018 3:46 a.m. Edited.
DrukenReaps says... #9
goodair "piss off your friend if your gonna be running hate SPECIFICALLY for his deck."
That is why my initial thoughts were not more removal but instead consistent access to a creature that Zacama can't touch.
All these suggestions are really good but both Divine Decree and Should I Pretend This Or That? already have a ton of removal. It's just that sooner or later Zacama hits the table and the longer it takes the crazier it is.
It is pretty fun to watch but after my whole board is basically gone I don't have many options for things that can stick around and I can't just hope to draw the right thing.
This doesn't happen every game he plays Zacama either. Sometimes Mairsil, the Pretender pretends all the right things or Queen Marchesa sets up a removal engine... But I'd say Zacama wins 50-75% of the games.
November 7, 2018 4:16 a.m.
SynergyBuild says... #10
Sorcerous Spyglass is another Pithing Needle type card.
The goal of these types of cards is that at least for effects like Nevermore, Null Chamber, Gideon's Intervention, Pithing Needle, Darksteel Mutation, Imprisoned in the Moon, Cursed Totem, Sorcerous Spyglass, Song of the Dryads, etc. is that they are 'commander removal', a way of getting around the command-zoning techniques that are abused by commanders that get removed often, yet can just be cast for more.
Mairsil can also use cards like Empress Galina or other steal effects as you can't command zone those either. Empress will also have an activated ability Mairsil can get, allowing you to make a sort of lock on all commanders.
November 7, 2018 8:46 a.m.
TheAmazingSteve says... #11
This deck and a lot of the user's other lists can be helpful for finding specific cards.
MagicalHacker - List of All "Tuck" Cards
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 24 | 31 COMMENTS | 4757 VIEWS | IN 16 FOLDERS
November 7, 2018 4:49 p.m.
bushido_man96 says... #12
If his deck goes off like that all the time, then I would think the playgroup would do the 3 v 1 answer to shut the deck down, thus working to smooth out the meta. I'd also say go with the removal, because removal spells are almost never going to be dead in your hand. Its also something the Zacama player has to factor in to play his deck. Threats have to be dealt with, and Zacama is a big threat, both as a creature, and with the removal abilities it has, especially if he combos it with cards like Temur Sabertooth or Erratic Portal to bounce it and generate tons of mana.
I guess what I'm saying is I agree with the other suggestions here in flexing in some more removal to deal with the creature. As mentioned, cards like Song of the Dryads, Darksteel Mutation, and Imprisoned in the Moon are especially awesome in turning a commander into a bump on the board.
Your comment on infect struck me, as well, and its a point worth addressing. Why not run some infect? Its somewhat irritating, sure, but the more you play it you'll probably come to realize that it isn't as powerful as others fear it to be. There are some infect cards, like Triumph of the Hordes, that can win a game here and there, but I don't think its a dirty tactic. It isn't any worse than a blue player casting Cyclonic Rift. And if you can spend a few games hating a nasty deck like Zacama out with infect, then power to you. That person will have to adjust, and the meta smooths out.
So, my point is, don't let your meta change you...work to get a change in your meta.
November 7, 2018 6:47 p.m.
DerektheRed says... #13
Of the potential commanders you mentioned, I'd personally build one of two decks:
Teysa enchantments stax, with the on-field removal cards mentioned (e.g. darksteel mutation), things like Aurification and No Mercy, and stax effects to make playing dinos painfully slow. Granted, that may not be fun for you or the rest of your playgroup...
The more fun (IMO) option would be Lazav clone tribal, with a bunch of 'steal creature' effects, grave pact-type sac effects, and removal.
Good luck! Zacama is a b**** (beast)
November 7, 2018 10:56 p.m.
Winterblast says... #14
You will want universally good cards that stop his deck too, not stuff that is specifically aimed at him. For example, play Cursed Totem and Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Revoker, Linvala, Keeper of Silence.
These cards will be helpful against many decks and you won't need to worry about Zacama either.
November 8, 2018 4:44 a.m.
Torpor Orb, Hushwing Gryff, and Tocatli Honor Guard will shut off the enter trigger. Rootborn Defenses and Avacyn, Angel of Hope will protect your stuff. Mesmeric Orb might also give him a headache but I'd recommend one of the others cards first. You could also just convince the table to gang up on him and try to take him out of the game before he can cast zacama. Probably won't be a lot of fun for him though.
LordBlackblade says... #2
I think it would be best if you tried retooling your current decks to fit the new threat instead of creating a new deck designed specifically to counter Zacama. Silver-bullet decks usually hose one opponent only to lose to another. What are you currently running when you play against him?
November 6, 2018 8:53 p.m.