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I don't think a lockdown hub is needed because decks with a hardlock as win option are often referred to as Stax, even if they don't achieve the lock by stacking cummulative effects until the opponent can't play anymore. I guess the term Stax isn't used in newer formats because classic Stax effects haven't been printed for a while...it's still a common name for anything that works with a hardlock though, at least I feel that is the case among older players.
July 20, 2017 6 a.m.
Lotus Petal, Mox Opal and Chrome Mox are missing...and what I'm missing as well are all the important 1 drop mana elves, such as Arbor Elf, Noble Hierarch, Elves of Deep Shadow, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves, Boreal Druid and for two mana Bloom Tender. Carpet of Flowers is also a great card, even produces mana in the 2nd main phase on the same turn it has been played!
July 20, 2017 5:41 a.m.
I think no one will have a Problem if you use proxies in a deck for Cards that are in another deck instead of switching Cards before every game...that's definitely more annoying. It's a good Investment to buy all fetchlands at least once if you plan on playing EDH for a longer time and it's not even that much Money if you look for a good offer, on ebay or some local selling platform for example. The KTK fetchies can be acquired for around 10-15 euro if you look for a while and the others are twice the Price...I would recommend buying cheap playsets and reselling the three copies you don't need as singles to make a small profit in the process.
July 20, 2017 4:43 a.m.
DarkMagician it's still wrong to assume that "midrange" just means playing nothing until turn 3 or 4...even a "slow" deck does stuff in the early game, just not attempt to kill so early.
July 20, 2017 2:37 a.m.
I play 5 colour combo and even though I have all fetchlands, shocklands and duals available, I don't play all of them. Of course, you can play all 10 fetchlands, that's for sure. In my case my dominant colour is green, so I play all duals and shocklands with green. The second most important colour is White, followed by black and blue...so I play all the duals (not shocklands) that include White as well. I have left out UR because that combination is something I don't want to draw into at all and I'm still unsure if BR is justified.
Depending on the deck you might want to play stuff like Gaea's Cradle or Cavern of Souls, Gemstone Caverns and of course Command Tower because it's better than a dual when in play (even though not fetchable). You should leave some space for a few Basic lands, preferrably in the colour that helps you best in dealing with Blood Moon. And then it's pretty much over with the free Slots, because you will either have a shitload of mana dorks like Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch, Bloom Tender, Elves of Deep Shadow and whatever you Need, or you have a similar amounnt of artifacts, such as Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Lotus Petal, Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic, Fellwar Stone,...or a combination of both. You don't want more than 33 lands if you run enough nonland mana sources.
Do yourself a favour and don't play lands that come into play tapped or even worse, the ravnica bounce lands...bringing a land tapped can be a free timewalk for your opponent and you don't want that to happen, do you?
July 19, 2017 3:56 a.m.
bushido_man96 unfortunately counters are too reactive for this deck...I can't really hold back to save mana for a counter because there's very little that I would actually like to counter. And the "free" Counters like FoW and Pact or mental misstep, daze...they have requirements that either don't hit the most problematic spells or they have alternative costs that I can't reliably pay. I'll test the deck again tonight and then I see how bad the matchup with the changes I've made really is against mono R and mono U. Apart from blood moon and Magus red can't really do much against my gameplan, unless there's Torpor Orb and Grafdigger's Cage and there's nothing to Tutor for These Cards. I'd like to be prepared for the possible Situation but not lose too much power against other decks because I improved a matchup that was already in my favour.
July 19, 2017 3:14 a.m.
Absolutely aggree with you AlexoBn (except I'd love to Play Tezzeret/Time Vault myself lol)...the only problem with black lotus and moxen is that they would be extrmely expensive must plays though, not the power itself. Everything else is not that expensive that it forces people to pay or lose or at least it's never such a universally good card that you have to play it in every deck. For example it's cool that I can Play Mishra's Workshop and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale but no one is forced to buy these cards to have a chance against someone playing them because they aren't good in every deck.
Boza I didn't know about canadian highlander and had a look at the rules yesterday. I don't think that this format is really for people who want to play most of their powerful stuff, because the point system is very restrictive. If it was 20 Points or 25, then maybe. I rather have no access to tolarian academy or tinker than having to add up points for every stupid tutor and end up having nothing left for acceleration. Or use one random black lotus and be left with a wildly inconsistent rest of the deck. Without having a look at popular decks for that format I guess that the point system and the 2 starting life probably favour aggro decks a lot while the EDH rules enable great combo strategies and make it very hard to win with a simple "in your face with creatures" approach.
July 19, 2017 3:02 a.m.
I guess it's time to finally get a Jace planeswalker, don't you think?
July 18, 2017 4:55 a.m.
bushido_man96 I get where you are coming from and under other circumstances your suggestions do make much sense. It's not that I rely on this one 5 colour deck for all my games in the same playgroup though. We all have some decks to change and the matchup multicolour against mono seems to be particularly bad, so I wanted to find ways to improve that. The "trick" with trying to build something that appears weaker than it is doesn't really work imo. Usually I try to kill the player first, who is easiest to remove in the early game, because he might play something that is hard to remove later in the game. It depends on the commander and if I know the deck and player, but doing unsuspiscious stuff in the beginning often means that the real action comes afterwards.
If I don't want to worry about blood moon at all, I can always play one of my other decks...I have one for every colour, Rhonas, Purphoros, Xiahou Dun, Jhoira (90% blue), Brimaz, my best deck is probably UW Stax and I have a Gitrog Monster. During one evening I don't play all decks, usually I play a deck until I have won once or twice, then take another one. Last week I happened to run into mono R and mono U with the 5 colour combo and the games showed some flaws in my deck. I managed to get rid of a Magus because I topdecked the single basic plains in the deck and hand a Path already available but I wasn't able to remove a blood moon even though I had a recruiter and Kiki Jiki...if that doesn't work, there's clearly something missing in the deck.
I do quite well with the 31 lands because there are mana dorks and some artifacts. I'm always somewhere between 30 and 33 and the amount of mana usually isn't the problem...with one free mulligan there's a good chance of getting what you need. The choice of lands is imporant though. I've removed Volcanic Island for an additional basic forest because I rarely need the combination UR. I tried removing Anger now because that was my main reason for playing duals with red but without green...and Anger was mostly needed for a trick with Master of Cruelties/Volrath's Shapeshifter and I kicked that combo out. The importance of Badlands still needs to be checked. I do want to keep the shocklands with green though, because green is my main colour.
What makes it difficult to cut something is that all the combo parts interact with something else and it's hard to find out what can absolutely not be thrown out and what is just a nice gimmick but not essential. Volrath's Shapeshifter and Defense of the Heart for example look great but I am not sure how much they really do in the current build. Defense can win the game if it triggers, but the requirement of 3 opponent creatures might be hard to meet by the time I could win with something else.
I'm testing Flametongue Kavu now, maybe Ghitu Slinger and I have Birthing Pod and Reclamation Sage in the deck again. We are opening some HOU displays tomorrow and I hope to get a Razaketh. Jin Gitaxias has also arrived yesterday, so I'm going to test him too as one of the reanimation targets. Cryptolith Rite might replace another land, because it makes all creatures into mana dorks...with all that specualtion and your inputs I think I should rather test some chances and see how it works in practice. I don't have a Sneak Attack but this and the EE dlamars suggested are on my watchlist. I'm still in favour of instant/sorcery removals (besides creatures with built-in removals) because Snapcaster Mage can reuse them and I've got nothing to make artifacts searchable or reusable.
July 18, 2017 4:54 a.m.
Wolfsbane706 if French commander was that cool, there wouldn't be something like cEDH. Whenever we talk about other variants of commander in our playgroup, the most often voiced opinion is that everything other than the normal EDH banlist seems to remove the balls of the format. I can't say it often enough, EDH is the only format in which you can play a power level close to Vintage but with a slightly lower budget. This fact alone is appealing and makes all other variants of singleton formats look worse in comparison.
maxon it's a social format for sure, no matter how you play it, but the term "casual" is so subjective that it has absolutely no defining value. Does casual mean that there are no DCI sanctioned tournaments available? What if a shop holds a torunament then, does that immediately strip the "casual" off that format? Does it need weekly official events to be considered non-casual?
Or is casual just a synonym for low budget for some people? What is considered a low budget in such a wide format that extends back to 1993? Is it non-casual to play single cards with high value or is the total value of a deck making it not casual anymore?
However you put it, it's not something that people can aggree on consensually, so what's the point of trying to describe a format that way? Casual players have always managed to play together with no format restrictions and still have fun. New players often just put a random sol ring in any big creature deck (not talking about EDH), or even more than one, just because it's cheap and easy to get...does it make their decks any more competitive? Absolutely not.
ibstudent2200 as for your assumption that certain cards can't be played "wrongly" to lower their power on purpose, I think that's wrong. Even the best cards can be played in a way that makes them literally useless or at least far less powerful as they would be in the right deck. Let's take Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary for example. put him in a two or three coloured deck and it's just as bad as the Hermit Druid you use for non-combo purposes. It is definitely possible to build weak decks with cards that have a high power level, just look at the precon decks. They show pretty much what happens when a casual player wants to build an underwhelming deck on purpose, with at least some absolutely great cards. For reference, compare the original Teferi deck to a Chain Veil Teferi list...if you absolutely want to, you can even make top tier commanders NOT work. That's why balancing the format by bans is quite unnecessary for casual players. They do not get to feel the full power of the cards they play anyway, because they play them in the "wrong" context.
July 18, 2017 3:30 a.m.
Boza I think it has to be pointed out that popularity of a commander doesn't equal strength. I've seen so many weak builds with the commanders of the preconstructed decks and while this drives up the popularity of a certain commmander it's just a result of new EDH players getting into the format with the preconstructed decks.
And these preconstructed decks indeed have some value for their retail price but in general their power level and strategy are really bad compared to what is possible in the format. These boxes are neither unbalanced nor broken, they simply show what you can get for around 40 bucks in EDH, while a top deck for the format may cost several thousands of dollars. How many tier 1 commanders did really come out of the commander precons and were exclusively produced in the precons? I think that's only Teferi if I'm not mistaken.
July 16, 2017 11:11 a.m.
In another town a shop actually holds tournaments with the mtgo 1 vs 1 EDH banlist...I think these events aren't even held half of the time because who the fuck builds a paper deck according to the banlist exclusive for online play. If you think about it, it's really stupid if Wizards wanted to implement their online rules for paper commander. First they want to sell their commander products and then they'd ban half of the staples included in these boxes? I don't think this is going to happen.
July 15, 2017 6:36 p.m.
To be honest, this just looks like a random pile of cards. Just because commander allows only one copy per card doesn't mean that you can build a deck without a plan and strategy and expect it to work...at least you should think about what sort of archetype you prefer. Without creatures it's not aggro, so you pick combo/control (probably both) and think about what exactly should end the game in your deck. If you don't know how exactly you want to win, people won't really be able to help you with suggestion on how to achieve your goal.
July 14, 2017 11:25 a.m.
enpc I've already thought about sneak attack yesterday...that's an interesting idea, also because it could bring creatures into the graveyard that I'm currently not able to cast and it could be used to get creatures to die and trigger certain abilities (for example Protean Hulk could tutor up the whole aluren combo in the end step then). I don't have much red without blood moon thoughI play the mountain duals primarily for Anger and Wheel of Fortune but I often fetch for non-mountain duals
Unfortunately I have absolutely no space for counterspells and additional removals are also problematic. For counters I am too active, I can't just save mana for that and the free Counters have conditions I am unlikely to meet in this deck (for example additional blue cards to remove, taking back an Island for Daze, ...). I need to use stuff that is not just a response to a problem but also works towards my own goal. So, rather Sneak attack than additional removal :)
dlamars I don't get how I could play engineered explosives with blood moon...of course, I could play it anytime for 3 just in case a blood moon drops later, is that what you mean? I have both EE and pernicious deed, but I think deed would ruin too much of my own important cards. EE for 3 is probably a safe play at any time, it just doesn't work when I get reduced to red mana before I get EE.
MindAblaze I have quite a few little hatebears, so it would work. I'm still trying to find out which cards are the least important in the deck and what I could remove again for more resiliance against nonbasic hate. Most of the deck is fixed because of the Combos and necessary interactions, it's a total of maybe 10 cards, including lands that can be exchanged...for example one recruiter or both? How many and which big reanimate targets? number of lands 30-33? number of mana dorks? how many and which hatebears? Birthing Pod/Sneak Attack/Defense of the Heart yes or no and how important are they? That's a lot of decisions on only few slots but I've already got some good suggestions from this thread!
Does anyone have experience with Carpet of Flowers? Is it good enough to risk having a dead card when absolutely no one lays blue and how realistic is it that there's no Islands in play at all?
July 14, 2017 5:07 a.m.
It's good that they only do this online and don't interfere with the normal commander format. As it is now, commander is a slightly cheaper vintage and it's the only place where you can play a lot of top vintage cards without having to buy into the P9 (which is quite a lot of investment if you do it now). I'd rather not have Wizards get too much into commander because their overall policy seems to be constantly downgrading the formats with bans and they always weaken combo and control with that.
Having a look at some top tier decks for duel commander already shows that the format suffers a lot from making the cheap acceleration and best tutors unavailable - most of it is just a blunt "in your face with creatures" approach. I just hope this won't ever happen with normal commander and I do have some faith that Sheldon sticks to banning only a few legendary creatures that wreck casual groups if played as a commander and leaves the rest of the cards alone. Wizards printed a lot of cards for especially for vintage and commander in eternal masters and as masterpieces and put them into standard sets and it would be a really bad idea to make all these cards only relevant for vintage by banning them out of commander. In duel commander they have already done it and you can see how it sucked the fun out of the decks.
July 14, 2017 4:34 a.m.
jon_hill987, this deck aims at a turn 3-5 kill (with a lucky hand and flash/hulk + tutor even turn 2), so a mana rock for 2 or more mana really has to do A LOT, to justify a slot in the deck. For there's only the three moxes and lotus petal, of which only mox diamond could be added (but I have some concerns as for the consistency with my land Count). for cmc 1 there's only creatures that produce coloured mana, no artifacts. for cmc 2 it needs to be a Card that generates a lot of value like maybe Bloom Tender or the mana slivers (because they can act as removal with Harmonic Sliver as well). Chromatic Lantern is only an option because it doesn't just create one mana of my choice, but makes ALL lands produce all colours regardless of their land type being changed. everything else with 3 mana is simply too slow in here...I do like coalition relic, but only in control decks when I don't plan on going for the win so early.
July 13, 2017 11:07 a.m.
If you want lifelink, use Serra Ascendant. You don't need to push the mana curve farther up than it already is by adding a "win more" card for 6 mana and triple of a colour. Sage of hours can work, especially because it's cheap...generally speaking you Need to do stuff with Counters before the time you are able to cast Atraxa, so the most Action should happen before you manage to get 4 different colours. I view deckbuilding from a "how to win" perspective. If you plan on throwing pebbles and turning dice on cards for two hours straight, you can surely drag out a game with Atraxa until you are completely bored out.
July 13, 2017 10:29 a.m.
jon_hill987 which ones do you mean? I think I only miss Mox Diamond and Mox Opal...Opal has too few artifacts in the deck and I don't have a Diamond left. Well, maybe I could take it from another deck, but I think I have too few lands to play mox Diamond over something else here. Anything else costs 2 or more mana and therefore is too slow...did I miss a card?
NoSoyYucateco the shoal won't work with only 5 blue Cards with cmc 3 in the deck. how much are the chances that I have shoal and one of These 5 Cards in my Hand at a time when blood moon is cast AND I don't Need that blue Card to win? With so much luck I would rather have the mana open for an instant Abrupt Decay or Nature's Claim. Lotus cobra could work with the fetchlands but it does nothing without constant land Drops
July 13, 2017 10:18 a.m.
It only has the ability ":Choose and discard a card" then, but the important aspect of the shapeshifter is that it copies the topmost card of the graveyard, if it's a creature. With that you also get all the ETB Triggers of that topmost card (for example with Survival of the Fittest you can tutor up and reanimate anything for by discarding a card to get Karmic Guide, discard that one again and get the shapeshifter and then cast the shapeshifter to get the Trigger of karmic guide, get karmic guide into play and reanimate another creature...) and the Ooze can't do that.
SpecialPerson you probably know the ooze from decks that win with Hermit Druid and Dread Return on the Ooze, while the combo pieces are in the graveyard. I don't have any of the needed pieces in my deck and on top of that, another player already plays such a deck.
July 13, 2017 10:03 a.m.
Commander / EDH
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|Playing since||Classic Sixth Edition|
|Avg. deck rating||7.43|
|Favorite formats||Legacy, Commander / EDH|
|Good Card Suggestions||331|
|Last activity||2 days|