Baral/How do I Blue?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on April 27, 2017, 5:41 p.m. by vbfabled
So I'm building Baral, Chief of Compliance as wizard tribal with a heavy control element, but I have an issue: I don't play blue. The only blue I've played has been as a secondary color to my GREEN decks. So I'm a bit lost and asking difficult questions like "How many counterspells is too many?" and "Can you have too many counterspells?" and "Shouldn't there be creatures in this deck?"
So if any of you experienced blue players out there have suggestions, I'm all ears!
Deck is here: "Does it res-" "COUNTERSPELL!"
I've run mono U in one form or another for something like 3 years. What I think you might be missing out on is that counterspells aren't actually that good in commander because they are inherent card disadvantage. You may be able to counter one player's stuff, but the format is multiplayer, so you need a proactive plan. That said, counterspells are the best cards in the game for not losing.
Baral's usually considered a High Tide commander by VERY high level players. The deck aims to generate ludicrous amounts of mana and essentially storm off. It's ok if you want to not do that (you probably shouldn't), but if you want to do Wizard tribal, you should probably consider Azami, Lady of Scrolls instead.
The reason for this is twofold: 1) Baral just screams counterspell and many people don't like getting their spells countered. He gets a lot of hate for being an annoying commander to play against. It's usually good to play under the radar picks if you can. Azami's pretty notorious for being good too, but people at casual levels tend to underestimate her. 2) The way you make control (and counterspells) work in EDH is by having a strong source of card advantage in the command zone. Azami lets you churn through your library like crazy.
The most amount of counters I've run in a deck was 17, but that was in a silly Arcanis the Omnipotent deck (again, draw) and my player group ran decks that made that a bit less crazy than it would otherwise be. I suggest around 10 counters for mono U wizards.
April 27, 2017 6:52 p.m.
I appreciate the thought, but I'm trying to make this deck with this commander better. I know my playgroup and I know the deck I want to play.
If you read the deck description you can tell it's supposed to be a bit gimmicky and less about raw playability (as are most of my decks) so anything you can offer to fit the theme I've already got going would be appreciated! Thanks!
April 27, 2017 9:23 p.m.
Alright, fair enough.
- Minimum of 9 ramp spells. These need to cost 2 mana. Think Coldsteel Heart, Mana Vault, Fellwar Stone, etc.
- More card draw and selection. Stuff like Fact or Fiction, Rhystic Study, etc.
- Lower your ACMC to a maximum of 3.0.
Here's a list of your worst cards at a glance:
If you're gonna run Dramatic Reversal and you already have the labman combo, you should include Isochron Scepter and Blue Sun's Zenith to kill the board. Oh, and a land like Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge won't hurt you. If you want a ramp option, Terrain Generator's ok.
I have a janky Arcanis list on my profile if you want to see what a Tuned mono U deck piloted by a shitty general can look like.
April 27, 2017 10:31 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #6
My Baral deck runs 37~ counterspells of assorted variety, including Venser, Shaper Savant-ish abilities, and Voidmage Husher. It's win con is Forced Fruition, with Clever Impersonator and Copy Enchantment as copies of it. Therefore every spell I counter forces them to draw 21 cards.
April 27, 2017 10:51 p.m.
That's 15 mana worth of permanents you only have 1 tutor for. That's cute at best.
April 27, 2017 11:20 p.m.
Due to budget, I won't be running some of those
Also, in my playgroup land destruction gets you killed faster than anything, and I can't defend against 4 people.
Some keywords for the deck are "budget" and "casual."
Also a lot of those "worst cards" were put in based on some of the decks in my playgroup, but I'll try to see about replacing some of them.
April 27, 2017 11:25 p.m.
Also, don't be a jerk, TheDevicer, commander is CASUAL
It's impossible to play wrong
April 27, 2017 11:26 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #10
Correction, 13 mana. And I didn't say it was a great deck. The OP asked for semi-gimmicky, and I offered my idea.
April 27, 2017 11:26 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle Yeah, Forced Fruition is hilarious, but not sure that's where I want to take the deck. I'll definitely keep it in mind though. Imagining triple forced fruition is incredible.
April 27, 2017 11:36 p.m.
It's 15 with Baral out. Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a dick. I'm just stating things I know to be true.
Also, commander is a social format, not a casual one. That distinction is important. It just so happens to be that the majority of the player base finds casual games to lead to the most enjoyable social interactions. Nothing wrong with either.
April 28, 2017 12:11 a.m.
Maybe I could suggest Guile? It's a bit on the high end of the curve, but it can be exceptionally fun :)
I run my version of counter.deck: Ertai likes Birds but the differences between it and what you are looking for are too radical to even dare a comparison. But a few interesting suggestions may include Jace, Unraveler of Secrets and with enough creatures on your side, Nullstone Gargoyle.
Panas says... #2
Although I am not a blue player at heart, I do play it regularly as a support/protection colour.
To answer your question about counterspells I have to explain the complication that rises in a multiplayer game concerning card advantage and removal (since - let's face it - counterspells are blue removal).
So in a 1v1 scenario, when you use a single target removal (e.g. Doom Blade, Counterspell e.t.c...), you are trading 1 card for 1 card and are probably getting a favourable trade in terms of how much mana was invested in each card. This gets you ahead in the game and makes efficient spot removal VERY strong.
Now imagine the same scenario but add 2 more players. You use your 1 card to deal with 1 card from 1 opponent, while the other two are just happy to watch. This is because it sets you and the unlucky target 1 card behind the other two. This makes spot removal effectively worse.
If you are still following, my suggestion is to treat counterspells as spot removal and include only as much as you need. You will use them to efficiently remove threats that are heavily detrimental to your game plan; you will never be able to counter every threat that is played. Also be wise in their selection: a card like Rewind or Arcane Denial and Dream Fracture do what you want to do while mitigating the disadvantages involved. Run Counterspell of course, the card is insanely powerful, but so is Swan Song. My favourite number is 8-10 for spot removal in a deck.
Alright! Perfect! Now let's talk Baral! He likes countering everything, but he doesn't care if it is through a spell or ability. There are many permanents that counter plays and Baral is fine with them! A Lullmage Mentor activation is just as good to him as Counterspell. Better yet, imprint said spell on an Isochron Scepter! See Glen Elendra Archmage Negateing things. Look for repeatable effects that will not use up your cards. There I cannot help too much as my knowledge in all things blue is relatively limited as to the other colours. I wish you luck and hope this helped a little.
P.S: Cyclonic Rift and Capsize is how you blue afaik!
April 27, 2017 6:32 p.m.