|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Shadows over Innistrad||Mythic Rare|
|Promo Set||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
Planeswalker — Jace
+1: Scry 1, then draw a card.
-2: Return target creature to its owner's hand.
-8: You get an emblem with "Whenever an opponent casts his or her first spell each turn, counter that spell."
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (14)||hardhitta71194 , bigc137 , zachi , Boza , HSF117 , gildan_bladeborn , TheHelvault , , BladeMasta220 , philktoken8998 , hound77 , Shoshy , sandfrog , Lucan2000|
|Want (2)||pskinn01 , KB2187|
Jace, Unraveler of Secrets Discussion
21 hours ago
Ah, okay. I've been trying to think of some good synergies with Baral, Chief of Compliance since it's a pretty strong card especially in a control deck. I completely understand why you have him in the side instead of having him in the main. If you were to even make a deck around him, the opponent will most often side in kill spells. Jace, Unraveler of Secrets looks more appealing than the Chandra, Flamecaller since it could most often come out before chandra and the fact that it could get in the way of a turn 6 Torrential Gearhulk. I also like the mini preordain that Jace does as well as the bounce if something has a lot of +1/+1 counters on it. On the other hand, Chandra has a board wipe for those pesky token and aggro decks and since it's in the main she gives you an upper hand game 1. The more and more I type this paragraph out, the more I could just put jace in the side against another control or stall deck. I love the deck, though. :) upvoted.
22 hours ago
I didn't catch that you had also asked for individuals to recommend what to cut as well. Here's where I would start:
Song of the Dryads
Imprisoned in the Moon
Bident of Thassa
Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
These are a few cards I think you can cut/replace with cards that provide more support of your theme or provide additional mana fixing and acceleration.
1 day ago
I would trim some of the more expensive cards and things that don't contribute to your game plan as much.
I like Jace, Unraveler of Secrets, but it doesn't seem very efficient for what it does.
Jace's Phantasm is another cool card, but you want to win through mill, not damage.
1 day ago
I'm a little curious on what your overall win conditions with this deck are. Baral himself isn't going to be swinging in for lethal commander dmg anytime soon and while you have lots of counters, there isn't much that you are doing besides preventing people from playing the game. Maybe throw in some cards like Control Magic, Acquire, Blatant Thievery, Bribery and Treachery. Throw in Talrand, Sky Summoner so you can get some lethal dmg in with a ton of drakes. Other helpful cards may be Propaganda and Copy Enchantment to help prevent people from attacking you and the latter for utility if theres a good enchantment on the battlefield. I also feel that you don't have enough artifacts to justify metalurgic summonings for its second ability but the first one is decent enough to get small creatures. Also since you have a ton of ways to prevent people form doing things you could throw in a Jace, the Mind Sculptor as a possible win con, this would work well in 1v1 but in multiplayer it'd be a bit harder to pull off. Other good cards that you may want to consider since you are playing blue and especially counterspells are Jace, Unraveler of Secrets, Diluvian Primordial, Soldevi Excavations, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Journeyer's Kite, Solemn Simulacrum, Mimic Vat, Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, Gilded Lotus, Consecrated Sphinx, Thassa, God of the Sea, Telepathy. Many of these options give some much needed mana ramp to blue and with the inclusion of the gauntlet and caged sun one blue land can be double or triple the mana so you only need one for each enchantment
3 days ago
No problem, I enjoy testing decks, although the control mirror was very tedious as both of us would have removal, but nothing to remove, lol.
Now as to the 3-3 or 4-2 split, the primary difference between your build and mine is that Saheeli's Artistry becomes copies 4 & 5 of Torrential Gearhulk (to quantify, this is against non control decks, as a counter spell can shut that down quickly). I went with an even split, to diversify my answers, because when I ran only 2 Metallurgic Summonings, it seemed that 85% of the time or more, both copies were on the bottom of the library, right next to each other (to be fair, that's just RNG, but I liked having the 3rd copy so I wasn't as butt hurt about losing one to removal or counters).
In your build, mainboard, you are hoping to win on one of eight cards (or a combination thereof), which is 4 Torrential Gearhulk, 2 Dynavolt Tower, and 2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance. In my build, I'm banking on one out of eleven win cons, 3 Tezzeret the Schemer, 3 Torrential Gearhulk (I'm only counting the 3 actual copies, not the ones that could be made by Saheeli's Artistry), 3 Metallurgic Summonings, and 2 Westvale Abbey Flip (more specifically, the transformation Ormendahl, Profane Prince Flip), and to be fair, in non control match ups, I have been able to use this as a win condition. So, I feel as though your build is a little more streamline, but in the mirror match, you might compete for answers if you go into a super long game.
As for Yahenni's Expertise vs Radiant Flames, this is really a flavor/Meta call. Your commitment to double swamp for Yahenni's Expertise is 8 lands (not counting Aether Hub as it isn't consistent swamp mana), whereas in my build, I am at 9 swamps. I find that I would rather have access to 3 colors more often, and in my build I can get there very easily, whereas in your build, sometimes that double black wasn't easy to hit all the time. The other side of the coin is this, if you cast Yahenni's Expertise and you don't take advantage of the free cast on it, it's just a 4 mana sweeper effect, whereas Radiant Flames is just a 3 mana sweeper effect. I get that the Expertise gets around indestructible, however this becomes more of a Meta question. If Selfless Spirits and Archangel Avacyn Flips are dominating your Meta, then the Expertise might be the better call. Although, both of our decks are running enough removal, that I don't see a lot of decks able to flood the board fast enough to be a serious threat. To that end, I find that Grasp of Darkness fills the role of spot removal for most indestructible threats.
My biggest take away from the playtesting was that I could easily cut Harnessed Lightning as a removal spell for my deck and replace it with a 4th Grasp of Darkness and 2 main board Negate, or 2 Void Shatter, or anything like that. Harnessed Lightning really is only effective post board for me, but for you, it helps juice up Dynavolt Tower. The mirror is probably the best test for our decks as it helps you figure out what your long term strategy is. Against aggro decks, I think both of these decks would crush most of them with ease (of course, Aggro decks can get up underneath of a control deck, so they present a big challenge in some respect).
Again, if I were to refine Grixis down, I think that that U/B list I posted previously would be the ideal build, maybe with a few tweaks, but it does streamline what the Grixis deck does, except both of our decks have a lot more flare and personality in comparison. To our credit, we could easily streamline the decks to win, but then they become cookie cutter win con shells that don't represent us as players or individuals. The obvious improvement inclusions would be Liliana, the Last Hope (this gets back our gear hulks, so double value there), Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is a fantastic companion to a suite of removal spells, as he makes zombies and exiles an opponent's creatures, Transgress the Mind should be a main board "silver bullet" as it takes out a lot of the win conditions that folks are running and the removal/counters takes out the rest, and lastly, Jace, Unraveler of Secrets/Ob Nixilis Reignited are just fantastic cards that can give you advantage, spot removal, or inevitability. Control is poised to be powerful, and I think we are on the cusp with our decks. Thanks for all the input, I'd love to hear any other thoughts or ideas you might have.
4 days ago
I had Chandra, Pyrogenius and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets in at first because they were the only blue and red walkers I had. But they were too slow. Flamecaller would be excellent if I can trade for some, can't afford to buy them right now. That's why deck is only $23.
Thanks a lot for the suggestions, I appreciate it. Thanks for the upvote as well!
4 days ago
I'm not a fan of Deadlock Trap in the SB. I'd rather have a different variety of removal, like Ruinous Path to handle PW's and more discard to bring in against opposing control decks like the other 2 Transgress the Mind. Ob Nixilis Reignited and/or Jace, Unraveler of Secrets are also considerations since they help with card draw. I don't think you need all 4 Dispels since they're quite narrow. You could also include Ceremonious Rejection to handle artifacts and eldrazi if they're played in your local meta.
5 days ago
You make an excellent argument for dropping Red from the board and making this more consistent with two colors. However, in a bid not to be like every other control style deck that will be out there, I opted for Grixis, in part because I feel like this gives me enough diversity to kill multiple types of decks.
And I could drop the Fevered Visions from the sideboard in lieu of a different sideboard tactic against control.
I have considered all of these cuts to make a more consistent U/B Control Deck List. However, to be more competitive, I would need to cut Tezzeret the Schemer and Metallurgic Summonings as they are far more gimmicky when compared to a true competitive build. It would probably look something like this:
2x Fatal Push
2x Void Shatter
2x Ruinous Path
And the sideboard would look like:
2x Fatal Push
Overall though, while my version is a bit more gimmicky, it does afford me the opportunity to play the cards I enjoy and to still play a control style build that I like. Thanks for the upvote and the suggestions.