Nemesis of Reason

Legality

Format Legality
Noble Legal
Leviathan Legal
Magic Duels Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Vintage Legal
Modern Legal
Vanguard Legal
Legacy Legal
Archenemy Legal
Planechase Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Unformat Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal

Printings View all

Set Rarity
Alara Reborn (ARB) Rare

Combos Browse all

Nemesis of Reason

Creature — Leviathan Horror

Whenever Nemesis of Reason attacks, defending player puts the top ten cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.

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Nemesis of Reason Discussion

Talbain on Donald Trump's Great Wall of Mill

1 day ago

Thanks for the suggestions!

I used to run Nemesis of Reason, but eventually cut it. It has good stats for a reasonable CMC, so it is tempting. However, this deck doesn't do much on the combat step, so without any evasion and without much of a removal suite to clear the way, his ability doesn't get used. That makes him basically 5 CMC wall that can't stop flyers. Great value in other decks that can make use of his ability, but less so here.

RE Lich Lord of Unx, zombie mill is totally a thing and Phenax suits that archetype very well. At one time I bought a whole suite of cards like Stitcher Geralf and strongly considered rebuilding Phenax to use them. However, I ultimately decided against it. Zombies are an entire subtheme that deserve to be built around and heavily synergized. Rather than focus on that subtheme, instead I chose to build more strictly around Phenax and related Dimir good stuff. This deck contains only the two most absurd zombie cards that do not require any other zombies to provide me with their value: Grave Titan and Undead Alchemist.

Murpy on How come Mill isn't a ...

1 month ago

Because you see it wrong. I don't want to be rude but the reason is outlined by many people, not just the Professor. If you think about it in terms of probability you are just as likely to mill bad cards that make them have more good cards in their deck as vice versa. Next, we have the graveyard issue. If we look at the top modern metagame, you see decks that use their graveyard very actively and would benefit massively from a mill player. Decks like this include Hollow One, Dredge, Living End, Goryo's Vengeance, Lantern Control, Mardu Pyromancer, and Death's Shadow, and to a lesser extent BGx decks and Snapcaster Mage decks like UWx control. Most modern decks use their graveyard to their benefit, with many decks actively milling themselves to gain an advantage. Milling them, until it kills them, is effectively just drawing cards. There is no deck that actively benefits from having an empty graveyard. Contrary to this, almost every deck has a form of self-inflicted damage. Examples of this include fetchlands, shocklands, Dark Confidant, Dismember, Street Wraith, painlands, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Thoughtseize, Spoils of the Vault, and more. These cards all become more dangerous when faced against a burn deck, because you are not able to use those resources as effectively as you would be without the threat of being burned out. Burn is also much faster than mill, exacerbating the problem. Let's now take a look at a card you are keen on, Destroy the Evidence. At 4 mana in modern, you have Jace, the Mind Sculptor, you have Gifts Ungiven, you have Scapeshift, and Bloodbraid Elf. At 5 mana you have Through the Breach and Ad Nauseam. 4 mana is generally considered a cutoff in modern, where any cards 4 mana or above have to have a massive impact on the game in order to be playable. This is because modern is a turn-4 format, where aggro and combo decks aim to win on turn 4 and any deck that isn't able to win on turn 4 consistently NEEDS to be able to disrupt effectively. 5 Mana cards in modern are cards that instantly win you the game. Through the breach puts in a griselbrand or Emrakul to win. Ad Nauseam allows you to draw your entire deck in concert with Angel's Grace or Phyrexian Unlife. Destroy the evidence is so abysmally slow and unimpactful. You destroying a land on turn 5 will almost never rob an opponent of any valuable resources, since spells in modern are so cheap. Your opponents are all playing cards that instantly win the game in the same mana cost. The mind drinker may even be worse (although probably not). That card doesn't even start milling until turn 6 at the earliest, which is likely longer than the average modern game. Both those cards are going to rot in your hand for the game, and then move on to either doing nothing because your opponent has 5 lands or chump blocking a 6/7 Tarmogoyf since you milled so much of their deck for them. The Mindcrank combo you described is much more legitimate than the other cards, but this issue is that removal in modern is rampant and the combo can't be played at instant speed and costs a lot of mana, abeit over multiple turns. It is certainly a synergy to build around, but the cards aren't powerful enough on their own and also don't work particularly well in a mill shell anyway. Fraying sanity is also an interesting new addition to modern mill. The issue with the card is that it costs 3 mana and doesn't immediately start milling your opponent, meaning you are tapping out on turn 3 doing nothing and hoping you aren't dead and can try to kill your opponent next turn, which is a lot to ask of your deck and your opponent's. Nemesis of Reason is 6 mana, and there are currently zero cards costing 6 mana or more in modern that are played without some sort of massive mana ramp. None of the other protection listed is at all viable in mill. They give your opponent removal targets and they slow down an already glacially slow "combo" archetype. Decks in modern are so fast, your 3 mana creatures that block a single creature and gain a few life aren't going to cut it. Surgical extraction effects are massively overrated, because most decks do not have a single card that is needed for their deck to work. Playing against a combo deck that uses specific cards and then surgicalling their Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is great, but what happens when you're up against a burn or humans deck, where the only thing you can surgical is one of a sea of redudant spells within their deck.

Catalog9000 on How come Mill isn't a ...

1 month ago

I was watching one of The Professor's videos going over card advantage, and in it he expresses that (I forget which card exactly so I'll have a stand-in) cards like Mind Sculpt essentially pay to discard a card from your hand.

His point is that there are generally better ways to use that . You don't affect the boardstate in a meaningful way, you don't disrupt their hand or counter their spells, and you don't advance your boardstate or your hand.

You tap two of your lands to discard a card. Period.


But I don't see it that way. You just removed seven cards from their library. You potentially got rid of very useful cards. In the case of things like Destroy the Evidence, they mill until four lands are in their graveyard. Whether they topdeck all four lands in a row, or they are running just an 18-land deck and they throw just as many cards away simply depends. Regardless, four lands is a huge blow to anybody's game.

So my question is very straightforward: Why don't we see more mill?

Sure, it's a tad bit slow to start. But with card's like Glimpse the Unthinkable and Hedron Crab, that's 13 cards on T2. That's effectively a quarter of their library.

With combos like Duskmantle Guildmage + Mindcrank, or Fraying Sanity + Glimpse the Unthinkable, or playsets of Destroy the Evidence + Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker (Both milling until four lands), I don't understand why we don't see more of Mill out there?

And before you state the "obvious" that there's no good protection, there's plenty. Nemesis of Reason, Gifted Aetherborn, Vampire Nighthawk, Wall of Frost, Monastery Flock, and they all do really well with Phenax, God of Deception.

Combo this with things like Surgical Extraction and Extirpate and you're hitting them even harder.


So what are your guy's thoughts? Why isn't Mill more commonly played, or at the very least used as a sub-strategy when decks can allow for it?

cdkime on Oh mill, the Horror!

2 months ago

Yes I doyou have to factor in the costs of counting Heartless Summoning (herinaffer HS) in your calculation of value.

HS allows you to spread the cost of your creature across two turns, for (at least with your creatures), a fairly insignificant loss of -1/-1. In a creature-based deck, this can be quite fantastic.

But this is not really a creature-based deck, and HS does nothing for a large number of your cards. Ideally, you want to play HS on turn 2 so you can drop one of your creatures on turn 3. So, lets look at some hypotheticals assuming that happens:

We will ignore turn 1, since you have no major plays.

Turn 2, you drop an HS.

Turn 3 you drop a Consuming Aberration. You have no mana available, so you cannot make use of its ability. It is fairly weak, as you have not milled your opponent yet. Alternatively, you drop Nemesis of Reason who cannot attack yet.

Turn 4, maybe you can fire off a couple mill spells (lets say you are lucky and get 2 Glimpse the Unthinkable, and youll add 2-6 cards from Consuming Aberation, or you mill 10 with Nemesis of Reason. Under your best-case situation, youve milled 26 to 30 cards. That doesnt seem too shabby.


Turn 1 you play Hedron Crab.

Turn 2, you play a land, milling then 3. You play glimpse the unthinkable, milling them 10. 13 cards have been milled.

Turn 3, you play a land, milling 3 and Fraying Sanity. Fraying sanity activates, milling another 3. 19 cards have been milled.

Turn 4, you play a land, milling 3. You play two Glimpse the Unthinkable for 20. Fraying sanity mills then 23 cards. Youve milled 62 cards and won the game. Or you e played Mind Funeral, milling somewhere between 6-9 cards, and a Hedron crab (before your land drop), which also would win the game.

And that does not even consider the Ghost Quarter and Archive Trap combo you did not want to run.

cdkime on Oh mill, the Horror!

2 months ago

It checks the X at the beginning of each end step, and redefines X to mean "the number of cards in the graveyard this turn."

Frankly, I think you should cut Consuming Aberration, Nemesis of Reason, and Jace, Memory Adept. Mill works best when you move as quickly as possible. All three of these cards cost too much mana for what they give you--by the time you can cast them, the fate of the game has already been decided.

No mill deck should be without Hedron Crab. It works particularly well alongside Polluted Delta, since you would receive two mill triggers. I would recommend running four copies.

Mind Funeral is fantastic, and can mill for a fairly significant number for just 3 mana.

RaberSaber on Mill, The deck sculptor

2 months ago

Commander's Sphere is kind of useless in a two color deck maybe try Dimir Signet also, don't put 40 basic lands in with 6 lands already in the deck, you won't need that much land. Anyways, some good mill cards for commander to add to this to make it up to that 100 cards would be Hedron Crab Glimpse the Unthinkable Mind Funeral Nemesis of Reason Mindcrank Mind Grind Consuming Aberration and of course put a bit of graveyard hate in, because the graveyard based decks are going to just love you putting all of their cards into their graveyard Grafdigger's Cage Tormod's Crypt Nihil Spellbomb and of course Dimir Doppelganger to take their good creatures straight from where you put them. and of course toss the bombs and removal and good mana fixing (you won't need a lot of "add any color to your mana pool" effects in a two color deck). You should be good.

ersatz_olorin on Phenax god of mill

3 months ago

Intruder Alarm lets you untap and retap a lot, even on your opponents turn (add in Cloud of Faeries and Deadeye Navigator to go infinite)

Nemesis of Reason is also a very strong mill card

Consuming Aberration will mill for more and more the longer it is out.

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