Adventures in the Forgotten Realms D&D MTG Set
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on May 7, 2021, 3:06 p.m. by Mtg_Mega_Nerds
Hello all! Recently our very first spoilers for the new D&D themed MTG set were released, and I think this set is going to be a goody. Here is the link to the spoilers on MTG Goldfish. Can't wait to see what the beholder card will be! Any other comments or thoughts?
Is there a pattern to the class rarities? Some are common, some are uncommon, and I can't find a reason from either WotC product.
July 3, 2021 4:23 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #3
You mean rare and uncommmon =)
Curiously, there are more rare classes (7) than uncommon ones (5)
July 3, 2021 4:37 p.m.
Coward_Token Good catch, I was writing faster than I was thinking.
I thought it was multicolor vs mono-color, existing vs. new creature type, even Zendikar party vs. non-party, but I can't make anything match. Developer's favorite classes?
July 3, 2021 5:37 p.m.
I'm going to complain a little more. I apologize.
Why are all the bards in Magic ? Yisan, the Wanderer Bard was kind of the trendsetter, and he's not especiallu D&D bard-ish. I can kind of forgive Elvish Bard and Joraga Bard since they're Elves.
Which of these describe traditional/stereotypical D&D bards?
Instinct driven, nature-centric, strong belief in destiny, physically powerful, focused on predator-prey interactions, minimalist
My answer is none. There is nothing about traditional D&D bards. They tend to fall into two broad categories, inspiring and manipulative. Inspiring would be -- Rally the Peasants , Outlaws' Merriment , Deafening Clarion , and Heartwarming Redemption are cards I would identify as showing this type of bard. Manipulative would be , with Beguiler of Wills , Besmirch , Role Reversal , and Captivating Crew as representative cards. Bards aren't nature characters. They can probably survive in the woods alone, but so can a paladin. Bards are , not .
July 4, 2021 12:38 a.m.
golgarigirl says... #6
I think bards are one of the hardest classes to peg color-wise. Your typical paladin will usually follow some sort of code, denoting white. A fighter's tie to martial tradition suggests red or white in some capacity. Barbarians are so very red, being instinct-driven combatants. Rogues are easy to peg, at least for me, and so are ranger, druid, cleric, wizard, and sorcerer.
Bard, not so much.
I've seen the hedonistic bard...where only their own pleasure matters (black-red), the diplomancer bard where they like being the party face and talking their way into and out of trouble (blue-white), the historian bard/collector of tales (I think this is what they're going for, kind of, with the Legends-matter subtheme, being red-green-white), the spy bard (black-blue), the inspirational bard as you mentioned (red-white), and the entertainer/heart of the community bard (this is the one I played for a few years, and he's so white-green it hurts).
I think, mostly, they were just trying to cover their color bases, and made it fit with some kind of bard flavor. And since bards are so open-ended, they could.
As for MTG bards, they tend to be the historian/collector type. I would say Yisan fits the pied piper kind of aesthetic as a collector, manifesting creatures as tales. I would argue Reki, the History of Kamigawa should be type-shifted from Shaman to Bard. Or be both.
July 4, 2021 1:26 p.m. Edited.
golgarigirl I don't disagree. But as a counterpoint, I've seen/used a good array of fighters: the cerebral strategist, the brute that's impossible to kill, the straight self-taught dirty brawler, the showoff. All of these are classic archetypes, but they're not the traditional armor+shield+sword protector.
being the color of history is an excellent point. Still, though, I would consider the traditional wandering entertainer bard to have more in common with rogues and sorcerers than with druids and rangers.
July 4, 2021 1:51 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #8
Nest of the Hydra: Neat mana outlet/finisher in mono-G EDH decks
Acererak, Lord of Undeath: So... in EDH I just feel like looping this guy and leaving his Tomb untouched.
Rust Monster: Kinda disappointing for such an infamous creature.
Divine Smite: Yessss, the phasing-over-exiling train keeps going
Grand Master of Flowers: Gotta read that type line. Not really knowledgeable about him but seems kinda underwhelming? You'd think it would be about Dragon tribal
Mordenkaien: Yeah the rule text from Maro's teaser ended up on something non-straightforward, as I hoped. At MV 6 and four turns to reach the ulti, he's probably going to need some help.
Plate Armor: Not bad when you got a bunch of cheap Equipment in your deck. Compare Grafted Wargear .
July 5, 2021 12:33 p.m.
Yess! Skeletons are being redeemed! There's a little bit more color wrangling here, or just split up tokens vs. spells. Either way, I'm happy.
July 5, 2021 2:05 p.m.
Acererak is a little more forgiveable, thanks to the dungeon requirements. Still happy.
July 5, 2021 2:08 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #11
I've got a question regarding Grand Master of Flowers. His static ability says this:
As long as Grand Master of Flowers has seven or more loyalty counters on him, he’s a 7/7 Dragon God creature with flying and indestructible.
So he basically stops being a planeswalker once he's at 7 loyalty. Do I properly understand it that, while you'd still be able to activate its loyalty abilities when in Dragon form, damage doesn't cause him to lose loyalty when in Dragon form. Taking damage in the form of a loss of loyalty counters is a rule mechanic unique to Planeswalkers, so this should work as described. Can anyone confirm or denie?
July 5, 2021 2:17 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #12
seshiro_of_the_orochi: Can't confirm for sure, but I think you're right. Check out the reminder text on Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and this errata on Sarkhan the Masterless :
Once Sarkhan’s first loyalty ability has resolved, each planeswalker you control (including Sarkhan) is no longer a planeswalker for the rest of the turn. They don’t lose any loyalty counters or abilities, and you can still activate their loyalty abilities if you haven’t done so yet this turn. They don’t lose loyalty if they’re dealt damage while they’re not planeswalkers. (2019-05-03)
July 5, 2021 2:39 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #13
Eye of Vecna: those are some of the most impressive male lips I've seen on an MTG card. Anyway, a card for (with no initial investment required!) is not bad for red, white, or even green.
Hand of Vecna: Meh. While it's not a question of strictly better, compare Empyrial Plate . An alternate cost to equip is pretty neat tho.
So anyway with The Book of Vile Darkness Vecna becomes an indestructible 8/8 + hand, and you can draw an extra card at the start of your turn to both boost his P/T further and make a token at EoT due to the life loss. Not really an EDH thing IMO but as the pieces only cost 3 + 3 + 2 mana and the Vecna-making ability is freem, it's quite reasonable to assemble in a 60-card format. Quite an improvement over Kaldra IMO.
July 5, 2021 2:56 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #14
Coward_Token: This is a great reference when in doubt, thanks. This seems clear enough to not have to wait for official rulings, but I'll check it in the future.
July 5, 2021 4:12 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #15
I am very pleased to see a card of Mordenkainen, and also that it is very powerful, as is appropriate for a character of his status and reputation, but why is he being featured, rather than Elminster? This set is in the Forgotten Realms setting, not Greyhawk.
July 5, 2021 9:49 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #16
Hoard Robber: kinda dislike black getting this straightforward ramp, should have been red instead
Leather Armor: neat, tho the drawback is going to be kinda swingy
Neverwinter Dryad: compare Diligent Farmhand . It's kinda funny that the card with less green mana symbols is more suited for mono-green decks
Dragon's Fire: Much more OK with this than Charge of the Forever-Beast , tho I'm not sure if I want to cut the repeatable Spit Flame or the cheaper & scaling Weight of Spires for it in my Lathliss deck
Temple of the Dragon Queen: Seems mostly good in two-color dragon tribal decks? it reminds me of Prismatic Vista more than anything.
Loyal Warhound: Obvious comparison to Knight of the White Orchid (which, should be noted, puts its land into play untapped which is quite impressive). Blinking this before you play your actual land drop for the turn isn't a bad proposition.
Asmodeus: Ooof, this guy doesn't play around. for seven cards (plus the ones you'd just draw normally...), at will, seem pretty good; more mana-efficient than Vilis, Broker of Blood in terms of pure advantage, tho I think I'd still prefer him most of the time
July 6, 2021 12:53 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #17
Asmodeus is one of my favorite characters in Dungeons & Dragons, so I am pleased to see a card of him in this set; he is also one of the most powerful beings in the entire D&D multiverse, but I honestly would not expect a card of hm to be able to truly portray the full extent of his power, so I am very fond of his card, as it is.
July 6, 2021 8:33 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #18
Goblin Javelineer has way too cool art for an otherwise forgettable common. I'm getting Bloodstone Goblin flashbacks.
July 7, 2021 1:10 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #19
You've probably already seen it but
Faceless Haven + The Book of Exalted Deeds
or
Mutavault + The Book of Exalted Deeds
The opponent better seize the window of opportunity or have land removal.
July 7, 2021 3:39 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #20
The Evil flipside to the above combo: If you make the Vecna token with The Book of Vile Darkness while you've got Chatterfang out, the extra Squirrel token will also gain the triggered abilities... I think.
July 8, 2021 12:08 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #21
Coward_Token, if a player manage to donate Asmodeus to a player who is not using black mana, that player will be unable to draw any cards until they somehow remove Asmodeus from the battlefield or donate him to another player (which should not be especially difficult for any color other than green), which is certainly a scheme befitting one of the most powerful and most evil beings in D&D.
July 8, 2021 8:46 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #22
Sword of Hours: Sigh. Pretty good for e.g. Skullbriar, the Walking Grave . I have to say I'm not fond of this kind of randomness on decent cards and it makes me wish these two products were silver-bordered.
Ride the Avalanche: Nothing super special but I'm curious about the cool flavor; is it referencing something in D&D in particular?
Cattie-Brie: As much of a callback it is to e.g. Hankyu and Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile , I don't see the removal ability being used much except in emergencies or as a response to removal. Anyway, a cheap white+ commander that basically generates a Golem-Skin Gauntlets each turn isn't bad, tho she suffers for lack of innate evasion.
Belt of Giant Strength: Neat design that the Equip cost isn't reduced by just base power, giving it Voltron synergy
Winged Boots: compare Wings of Hubris
Robe of the Stars: Yesss, more phasing.
Mantle of the Ancients: A more focused Replenish . It's good to see that Aura voltron in particular is getting more love, I feel it's been largely overshadowed by Equipment.
Holy Avenger: See above. It's white ramp too. And yes, each double strike will trigger it, and yes, the second strike will benefit from the first Aura you cheated in.
Fey Steed: Meh. You can do better if you want indestructible voltron I think, and Shapers' Sanctuary makes it kind of insulting as an attempt at mono-white draw.
Storvald: Probably should take a peek at e.g. Octavia, Living Thesis and Volrath, the Shapestealer decklists; low-power creatures with scaling abilities like Cold-Eyed Selkie and Blighted Agent seems like the way to go. Note that he can target himself with the 7/7 ability in case you don't want to touch anything else for whatever reason.
Bucknard's Everfull Purse: See Sword of Hours, tho this is at least held back by being somewhat opponent-dependent (can't pass it back and forth either). With dice support, you could cast & activate it on the same turn and get 4 treasures for profit.
Hurl Trough Hell: Neat design but kinda overcosted as far as removal go (lol, Gilded Drake ). Correct me if I'm wrong, but since a replacement effect is involved and it doesn't explicitly say "from exile" in the second sentence, you can cast commanders from the command zone with this, right?
Fevered Suspicion: Two guaranteed opponent-only Etali, Primal Storm for eight is kinda meh tbh. I'm glad they made a reference to Beholders being paranoid maniacs tho.
Bag of Devouring: You know the drill by now.
Wild-Magic Sorcerer: Yay, more impulsive draw support! Does my tolerance of cascade over dice make me biased? Maybe.
Share the Spoils: Well. Certainly chaotic but at least it's appropriately costed, and in the right deck.
Lorcan: This is a Demon and you can't tell me otherwise! Anyway, kinda high cost for something that's kind of stuational and potentially very self-harming, but casting this followed by killing board wipe seems fun. Hope you got life gain! No commander stealing here tho. I also like the flavor of someone getting their life saved in return of servitude.
Hellish Rebuke: idk why the templating needs to give out abilities, could have just said
Whenever a permanent an opponent controls deals damage to you, its controller sacrifices it and loses 2 life.
Ability-removing shenanigans, as well as permanents that enter after this resolves, will rarely make the distinction matter. OH! And if someone takes control of the spell or copies directly onto the stack, I think you're still the one "who cast Hellish Rebuke". Also note that it doesn't just affect creatures; fuck off Impact Tremors !
Grim Hireling: I still think this is more appropriate in red; black ought to ramp tied to creature death/sacrifice/life payment/swamp-related things IMO.
Death Tyrant: Sorry legendofa but I chuckled when I read "Zombie".
July 10, 2021 5:27 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #23
Component Pouch: A worse Coalition Relic meant to annoy me, especially since I never liked D&D usage of low-cost components.
Midnight Pathlighter: "one or more", my old nemesis. Still, nonlegendary evasion is pretty good even in a format largely defined by the presence of legendary creatures, so you can probably get in a hit on more than one person.
wand of Orcus: "that many"? Ooof. Death Baron on a stick isn't bad either.
Rod of Absorption: Pretty neat, as it picks up both your stuff and other people's. Too reliable to be red I guess.
Phantom Steed: ... this feels very red? Guessing it's mostly so Minn can get more support.
Minn: Oh my, power? And it's any permanent? Also, lol, Rhystic Study synergy, no effort needed. (But you should probably still get a Brainstorm or something, those tokens seem pretty wild.) Easily my favorite card.
Thorough Investigation: here we go, the vaunted white advantage attempt, and it's not that bad, but Hand of Vecna is better imo, immediately giving draw, and white doesn't have that much Clue support on its to fuel the second ability.
Revivify: This feels like an annoying hoop to jump trough when you could just cast Eerie Interlude ? Not the board wipe resilience the format needs IMO
Radiant Solar: I like that pseudo-cycling ability, not sure about the cost tho.
Immovable Rod: Loses all abilities, and any permanent? And it triggers when you do untap? Not a bad source of repeatable pseudo-removal.
Nihiloor: Stealing commander gooo. Copying him is one way to get extra ETB triggers, but it's kinda annoying since you have to keep track of which Nihiloor has stolen which creature.
Wulfgar: Nooooooooo!!!!!! you can't just put Suns_Champion's Attackharmonicon Aurelia on a non-boros commander nooooooooooo. Anyway, jokes aside this is nice, I can't immediately grasp all the value TBH.
Klauth's Will: Feels kinda weird in a set with nonflying Dragons?
Dragonborn Champion: a source, not just combat damage from creatures. Might be kinda winmore when you're hitting people for that ammount tho.
Bag of Tricks: Ugh, this is way too swingy for my tastes.
Vengeful Ancestor: Yessss, hello Marisi, Breaker of the Coil ! The flying is appreciated too. Just note that it's symmetrical.
Klauth, Unrivaled Ancient: finally caught on Aggravated Assault eh?
July 10, 2021 2:21 p.m.
This is a PSA. Reckless Endeavor does not use d20s. It uses d12s. Make sure you have the right tools for the job.
July 10, 2021 4:32 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #25
I'd be surprised if the product don't come with all the requisite dice
July 10, 2021 4:33 p.m.
Brewing thoughts beginning to churn: Having no lands doesn't matter when you can get stuff for free with Minn, Wily Illusionist.
July 10, 2021 5:17 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #27
Pretty obvious but you're free to put out lands with the death triggers too. Another Ashnod's Altar combo to add to the pile.
July 10, 2021 5:33 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #28
Kinda disappointed about the dungeon support. No cool completion rewards for me.
Nature's Lore reprint is nice.
Quite surprised they didn't make an Elminister card or even referenced him, AFAIK he's only second to Drizzt in popularity?
July 10, 2021 6:04 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #29
Now that there is finally a creature version of Gaea's Cradle , will there eventually be an artifact version of Tolarian Academy ?
July 12, 2021 5:36 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #30
Very sad that the Squirrel Vecna combo no longer works due to the Oracle change
July 15, 2021 12:15 p.m.
Apologies for complaining, but I just found another design choice I don't like about the way this was designed, and this one just seems weird: Barbarian Class is built around dice. The only Barbarian creature that interacts with dice (not even rolling dice itself) is in a Commander product, as Vrondiss, Rage of Ancients . Barbarian Class works better with the Warlocks and Shamans of the set!
July 22, 2021 3:28 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #32
Yeah aside from the level 3, that one's more bottom-up in its design; barring the Path of Wild Magic, Barbarian's don't have very chaotic mechanics. Dice rolling seem to be mainly be in blue-red too, which isn't a very Barbarian-esque color combination. I think they just needed a mono-red dice support card and ended up shoehorning it into the Class.
Sorcerer Class would have been an OK alternative IMO, wouldn't even need to be blue-red flavor-wise as Sorcerers have natural rather than learned powers.
July 22, 2021 3:55 p.m.
Coward_Token The first ability is kind of the advantage mechanic, probably pulling the D&D barbarian's Reckless Attack. The second ability is completely shoehorned in.
You're right, Sorcerer Class could (and probably should, the more I look at it) have been the dice card. Aberrant Mind Sorcerer , Chaos Channeler , Delina, Wild Mage , these are all sorcerer references, and they all are happy to roll. But we can't leave out Spells Matter, now, can we?
July 22, 2021 4:31 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #34
It's fitting that Lorcan, Warlock Collector combos with Dark Deal .
Coward_Token says... #1
not a freaking human heart***
July 2, 2021 5:18 p.m.