[Community Discussion]: Modern Chat
Modern forum
Posted on April 25, 2015, 8:42 p.m. by Epochalyptik
This thread is dedicated entirely to Modern. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
Vizier isn't even that big a deal. The Company decks got a bump, and then settled back down to slightly above where they were before it was printed. Don't buy into the hype.
July 14, 2017 9:47 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #3
I was simply using at as example of "wotc doesn't test for formats other than limited and standard" Since it took all of 3 minutes for someone to look at DD and put 2 and 2 together.
July 14, 2017 9:53 p.m.
Ohthenoises Just not true. Yes, it's true that they don't do that much testing (barely any) but they absolutely do print cards exclusively aimed at eternal formats. Abrupt Decay was specifically aimed at making counterbalance/top less dominating in legacy, and fatal push was easily designed for modern/legacy play, to finally give black (the color that kills things) a top tier removal spell.
It's rare, and only comes about every two or four sets, but they do design cards for the eternal formats.
Most recently, Claim//Fame was obviously designed with modern in mind. No two drops worth mentioning in standard.
July 16, 2017 9:12 p.m. Edited.
Ohthenoises says... #5
I'd argue that Abrupt Decay was part of an uncounterable cycle and it made sense at that standard to kill Underworld Connections and Pack Rat. That deck became extraordinarily powerful at the time so it makes sense to overload on removal. (also makes sense for the cycle. R/U counter, W/U wipe, R/B raid and exile, W/G a dude above curve, G/B kill something)
Fatal Push with the cmc 4 revolt trigger is a pretty clear answer to Thought-Knot Seer. (even more so that it's conditional, one of wotc's favorite things to do)
Claim / Fame can get back any number of good creatures right now. The Khenra brothers, Scrapheap, etc. There are PLENTY of targets.
I'm not saying that these cards weren't good immediately in modern (they are) but simply that cards are designed for standard and limited first and they rarely, if ever, print cards JUST for modern.
July 16, 2017 10:12 p.m. Edited.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #6
Those cards were 100% designed for eternal formats. It's not debateable.
July 16, 2017 10:52 p.m.
If Wizards intentionally designs cards for any format outside of Standard, it's EDH (ironically). ("each opponent" cards are so useful in 1v1, in case you didn't know)
That's my take of it. Responses to Modern/Legacy/Vintage are few and far between, and usually only present long after they're needed.
July 17, 2017 1:13 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #9
It's literally only a problem for blue decks. I recommend complaining less and thinking of ways around it more.
July 17, 2017 1:21 a.m. Edited.
Of live tournaments in the last two months, out of the Top 8, only 15% of the decks played Cavern of Souls, with an average of 2.1 copies per deck.
Doesn't seem to be much of a problem imho.
July 17, 2017 2:38 a.m.
Ohthenoises WotC wrote an article about how Abrupt Decay was designed to be an answer for counterbalance. And no, I don't have that article conveniently saved to provide proof of this, but if you want to go searching for a four-five year old article, feel free. They also did an article on fatal push saying it was designed to finally give black a premium removal spell (which implies for eternal formats as black has had plenty of good standard removal over the years). That should be much easier to find.
So no, it's not an opinion when the company comes out and states that they are designing cards to directly combat a specific thing, or because they feel a color was lacking a primary kill spell.
July 17, 2017 12:21 p.m. Edited.
Ohthenoises says... #13
Just found the article you were talking about and it was the spoiler for abrupt decay in modern masters 2017 by gaby, there's no mention of why it was originally designed.
Good call!
July 17, 2017 12:45 p.m.
TheAlexGnan - That's a fair statement, but they're also quite a few reliable ways to remove those lands.
As a Grixis list you should have plenty of access to creature removal for a resolved creature. Alternatively, you should have access to Ghost Quarter (since everybody can use it - and it was notably higher on the most played lands stats) as well as other land removal, such as Crumble to Dust. Alternatively (if it's a serious issue for you), you could Ghost Quarter the turn 1 Cavern and then use Surgical Extraction.
July 17, 2017 4 p.m.
Smh I'm not talking about a 2017 article I specifically stated an article from around when the set was released.
July 17, 2017 4:05 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #16
Your "overarching reason" for disliking certain cards is that you play a certain deck that those cards are good against. That's fine, but it's also not a reasonable case for "this card is bad for Magic". Also, you can't do anything about it, so just deal. Ghost Quarter the Cavern of Souls, Repeal the Blood Moon, Thoughtseize the Stony Silence.
Also, don't play Mana Leak. That card seems pretty bad.
July 17, 2017 6:23 p.m. Edited.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #17
UW control answers this problem with 4 mainboard Spreading Seas. Not exactly a card you'd expect to see in a grixis list, but with some tweaking it could be playable enough. In addition it answers manlands and can keep them off the mana for a Liliana of the Veil or other expensive cards. The only thing it's missing is flash because paying 2 mana at sorcery-speed hurts more than just a little. The extra percentage points against tron is pretty relevant as well.
July 17, 2017 6:34 p.m.
tlhunter07 says... #18
TheAlexGnan, Corey released a CFB article and video series about a new Grixis brew of his called Blue Jund, if you're feeling disappointed in Control I suggest you give it a shot.
TBH I'm thinking about building it myself, all I really need is 4 Tarns and a set of JVPs along with a few Fulminator Mages. Hope you like it!
July 17, 2017 6:43 p.m.
I stand with ToolmasterOfBrainerd on this.
Spreading Seas is all the value. Also very entertaining.
July 17, 2017 7:14 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #20
tlhunter07 I think you can get away with 4x Flooded Strand instead of Tarns. And honestly I think the deck needs a little more tuning. Surgical Extraction should be Nihil Spellbomb IMO and the burn matchup looks simply awful - Collective Brutality could help that.
Discard spell splits in grixis are also tricky. Thoughtseize feels so bad against burn, but Thoughtseize is also the best card in the deck against Eldrazi and Titan Shift. I like 3 Thoughtseize in the 75, and if I could play 4 and maintain an acceptable burn/affinity matchup, I would.
Lightning Bolt as a way to close the game more quickly is also something I think he undervalues. When Death's Shadow is trying to get their life total super low super fast, Lightning Bolt in a deck with 4 Jace and 4 Snap becomes super good. I play 4 bolt in my deck and the Death's Shadow matchup favors me quite a bit from playing against it at FNM. And Lightning Bolt is a big part of why the Affinity and Burn matchups are winnable in the first place. Yeah, Fatal Push is good there too, but Bolt shouldn't be so underestimated. In a true Jund deck Bolt is awful right now, but Grixis, even Blue Jund, isn't true Jund.
July 17, 2017 7:53 p.m.
If anyone is interested, i'm selling/trading most of Sun/Moon. Please see below.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-forum/the-trading-post/looking-to-selltrade-most-of-sunmoon/
July 23, 2017 1:53 p.m.
Per the above, i'm also selling 4 Future Sight goyf's at a good discount, it's in another thread in the trading post.
July 23, 2017 3:46 p.m.
tlhunter07 says... #24
Hey guys, just figured out that I'll be going to the Open in Richmond on August 11th, and I'd like to ask for some advice regarding my UW Control list that I'll be taking. The sideboard probably needs some changes, but the main is pretty much fixed.
Feel the Light
Modern
SCORE: 36 | 208 COMMENTS | 5744 VIEWS | IN 8 FOLDERS
Thanks, you guys are lifesavers.
August 4, 2017 8:25 p.m.
elpokitolama says... #25
Its pilot (who's a friend of someone I know) told in an interview (or to that friend, I really can't remember) that he played it in place of Eidolon of the Great Revel, as it is much better in the current meta. Doesn't eat any kind of removal, doesn't hurt you, and can be absolutely devastating if left unchecked (as most decks can't interact with it and won't always sideboard against it since they doesn't want to oversideboard against burn). :)
August 19, 2017 2:09 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #26
Every fair deck except Eldrazi Tron can kill a Shrine, sometimes at an advantage as well. I think it's pretty bad.
August 19, 2017 3:26 p.m.
I'm still trying to figure out its inclusion. My preliminary theory is that it gives Burn lategame juice in matchups where it needs to zap several creatures to keep its opponent from getting out of hand, and it's also a source of colorless burn in the event that an opponent has problem creatures like Kor Firewalker and Master of Waves. Pretty bad if you expect to see Kolaghan's Commands, but if so, you can side them out.
August 19, 2017 7 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #28
Shrine V.S. Eidolon makes a lot of sense against death's shadow actually.
With eidolon DS players can use it to control their life total even easier/faster. Not only with shocks, fetches, street wraiths, and thoughtsiezes but now everything they cast can get them closer to a 10/10.
With Shrine you get a large burst of damage all at once and you can use it to just otk death's shadow players.
It's very meta but I like the ingenuity.
August 19, 2017 7:21 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #29
The inclusion of Shrine is an answer to decks with Fatal Push. Not necessarily because your opponent's can Push your Eidolon, but because against those decks you have time to play it and not have to worry about them racing you while you damage yourself like with Eidolon. I don't think Champion/Master of Waves matter.
@Ohthenoises Eidolon is one of the best cards against Shadow. An important thing for me is making them play from behind with removal instead of letting them slam a turn 2 creature and force you to chump block very early on. Shrine is also an awful topdeck, worse than Eidolon, and those decks are good at forcing you to topdeck.
It's too mana intensive to play four, in my opinion. Maybe you can get away with a couple, but drawing two must be miserable.
August 19, 2017 7:30 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #30
I've seen games play out very differently on camera since DS rose to power. A smart DS player can take advantage of a eidolon.
While your personal experience may be different I'd say that in a professional environment things may be different.
August 19, 2017 7:33 p.m. Edited.
elpokitolama says... #31
Well, doesn't Shadow almost auto loses against burn anyway?
August 19, 2017 7:50 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #32
It's a race from everything I've seen on camera.
The burn player has to play a dance where they keep the DS player at a high enough total so a DS doesn't get so large that multiples just kill them and the DS player is in a similar position, not getting too aggressive so as to just die to a boros charm.
It's actually a pretty funny matchup. Burn is favored until DS gets an ok draw with hand hate and 1-2 DS
That's why I said I liked the ingenuity of a Shrine. Shrine sits there as a "if your DS gets big enough to kill me, this kills you"
A bit of insurance. Now, that's falls to Kolaghan's command but eh.
Suffice to say this is one of the first times burn has made a recent finish in a while (in a large event) so fwiw he may be on to something.
August 19, 2017 7:54 p.m. Edited.
I agree - between the 1st place finish and the actual matches I saw on camera, I think there's some method to this madness. I just need to see it in play more (I haven't tested it yet, and I've only faced it once as an opponent) to really be sure.
August 19, 2017 8:48 p.m.
elpokitolama says... #34
August 21, 2017 1:59 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #35
If you're going to play Shrine, consider four Shard Volleys instead. Those are really good, especially against Shadow, it's nice to have one mana spells in that matchup and in some others as well. If you play 20 lands, it's never a problem.
I don't think Eldrazi Tron is as bad as Loic says it is, it's mostly draw-dependent in my experience. I agree that Shadow is unfavorable, it's close but I think the people who say it's favorable haven't been playing against experienced enough Shadow players.
August 21, 2017 2:29 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #36
@GlistenerAgent "Eidolon is one of the best cards against Shadow"
Looks like this statement was incorrect, at least in Loic's eyes?
It looks like I was fairly close on my guess as to why it was cut given his "hold fire then release" comment.
August 21, 2017 6:16 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #37
What I got from his post was that he didn't like Eidolon against Affinity and Eldrazi Tron, I didn't see anything about Eidolon against Shadow, though. My experience has been that it's pretty good, between playing against it online a whole lot and at SCGATL twice, and watching matches. I agree with his logic for cutting it given the matchups he expected, but I'm still confident that Eidolon is good against Shadow. I think it facilitates building a hand that can cast four spells between their end step and your main phase, by pressuring their mana/buying time in other ways. At the very least, Eidolon should be in your deck over Shrine for the majority of matchups, percentage-wise.
August 21, 2017 7:28 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #38
This whole paragraph was about Loic's decision to cut Eidolon from his deck lol:
"You don't want to burn them early because against a quick death shadow and a stuborn denial, you will almost never kill them before they kill you. You want to hold then release fire. Furthermore all his card cost 1 mana, plenty of discard / removal."
Eidolon doesn't allow you to hold then release fire as he said.
Additionally "In each of this deck, eidolon is your worst card. You are not going to be hapy when your opponent lend a TKS, a tasigur, or Archboud ravager"
Don't know about you but I've never seen eldrazi tron or affinity play Tasigur so he's clearly talking about DS here as well.
Also, you played and won matches but he won the whole event so I think that puts a bit more weight behind what he says no offense.
August 21, 2017 7:37 p.m. Edited.
Wow, nobody posts here anymore. Was there an announcement anywhere about the new PW legend rules going live? I figured it out by mistake on MTGO when I played Gideon Jura while I already had a Gideon of the Trials on board and they both stuck. I'm pretty sure this rule doesn't go live in paper until Ixalan release? So far in just a few games, these 2 Gideons together seem impossible to overcome for my opponents.
September 21, 2017 1:02 p.m.
tlhunter07 says... #40
Yeah, the rule doesn't go online for paper until XLN released date. There was a note somewhere where they said it was released for MTGO.
September 21, 2017 2:47 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #41
Been quiet here...
People keep trying to say Search for Azcanta will be good in modern. Quite frankly the card looks terrible. Am I missing something?
October 7, 2017 4:02 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #42
Nope. It's awful, but easy to flip. People are excited because it's good late game, but late game doesn't really exist in Modern.
October 7, 2017 4:41 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #43
There are effective control decks in modern that could make use of it, but it's generally not worth the slots it would take up. Maybe in non-white control decks that don't have access to Sphinx's rev. or non-red ones that have desolate lighthouse. Which pretty much leaves mono blue. Even then they have draw spells that are better, so I really think it's an edh card mostly.
October 7, 2017 4:58 p.m.
I've been seeing it popping up in GDS lists. I don't think the card is frankly amazing but it does have potential.
October 7, 2017 10:35 p.m.
Dredge4life
What do you mean when you say that "late game doesn't really exist in Modern"?
In my humble opinion, stuff like lantern control, esper draw-go, blue moon, Uw control (sometimes with Elixir of Immortality as a win condition) tend to have very looooong matches.
October 8, 2017 8:08 a.m.
The late game exists in Modern. The format right now is a lot slower than it was pre-probe ban. GDS, UW, Jeskai, Eldrazi Tron are not T3 (and often T4) decks, and that's at least ~30% of the meta right now.
October 8, 2017 6:29 p.m.
Thoughts on this deck? (No sideboard and manabase is probably trash)
October 18, 2017 10:18 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #49
Having a debate with Xica about which card is better in modern Deathgorge Scavenger or Scavenging Ooze?
Someone please help us out? Either in that thread or in this one.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-forum/modern/strongest-hub/?page=1#c3180439
October 19, 2017 3:04 p.m.
I would not go so far as to say that either one of them is better.
They are very different.
Scavenging Ooze demands more, but its better as a "pseudo control" card, that can battle Snapcaster Mage - and if your deck falls to the more control-ish side of the midrange spectrum, with many instant speed stuff its better.
Deathgorge Scavenger is a better play in terms of tempo. And this card provides value without additional mana investment - thus in lists that run many colors, and draw a lot of cards (that would do more when played, than rotting in hand), it seems to be the superior choice.
TMBRLZ says... #1
I had a sweet allies deck in Modern before BFZ was even hinted at. Used Aether Vial and Cavern of Souls. Would knock your teeth out in five seconds flat and laughed in Grixis Control's face.
July 14, 2017 6:43 p.m.