Hey! I saw your comments on another vampire deck from 2016, and was wondering if you would like to help me with tips as well. Pretty good idea's you had. Best Regards Keyb
September 26, 2017 10:24 a.m.
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So in your opinion Dark Confidant is not good enough, that a slightly worse version of it would be still playable?
(Paying more, while getting a +1/+1 bigger body, and it draws you card in the same turn bob would provide its first draw, that is not such big of a downgrade in my humble opinion - oh and you can always choose not to attack if the life loss becomes a danger)
October 20, 2017 2:17 p.m.
For a time i have been toying with a "madness" deck that abused 8x pseudo dark confidant effect - in the person of 4x Asylum Visitor & 4x Blood Scrivener.
And when there are multiples on the field, its just insane.
Of course the problem is you have to empty your hand every turn for them to be active.
But now that Mr. Ruin Raider is able to join Dark Confidant i don't think that its unlikely that a similar archetype could become a powerhouse in modern. (that of course doesn't guarantee anything, but the possibility is there imho)
The goal is to draw so much cards to not have to give a fuck if some of your plays are destroyed by blockers - however this way of play requires lifegain.
(And i think people are much more likely to focus removal on stuff like Tarmogoyf, than Deathgorge Scavenger)
October 20, 2017 10:36 a.m.
So you are saying that there is no point to gaining life for BG(X) deck, that throw away their own life total left and right to pay the cost of a wide variety of spells?
Kitchen Finks is surely better against burn - it blocks twice (likely killing 2 creatures) and gains you 4 life.But it won't gain more than 4 life.
In my humble opinion having multiple Dark Confidants on the field is a nice thing to have.
And in such case having some way to gain life is mandatory - otherwise if the opponent manages to stall you with walls for a short time, your own creatures could kill you easily.
(Of course there is no such deck, and even thinking about it is heresy - as if anyone tries to build such a thing it will be unplayable, and the God of spikes will curse that heaton, so that his/her hands will rot off)
October 20, 2017 6:52 a.m.
Platinum Emperion is indeed superor, if the deck is a tempo deck, but its just not the same lock.
It still loses to infect, and being milled out - which can happen if the opponent draws less, and gained ~infinite life.
It also doesn't work with Pact of Negation or Glorious End (latter being able to exile the stack, thus countering stuff like Supreme Verdict, or any ability)
In the end all this deck, is an exploratory attempt, on seeing how far Platinum Angel can as a lock piece in modern.
October 20, 2017 5:31 a.m.
Regardless of our sentiments towards each other, lets stick to facts, and don't put words in the other person's mouth.
I not even once said that Deathgorge Scavenger is better than Scavenging Ooze.
I said that they do different things and that as a way to gain life Deathgorge Scavenger is more efficient.
Having an effect for free is a lot more efficient, than paying for it (not to mention being limited by the presence of creatures in the grave is also inefficient - compared exiling non-creatures, which is much more reliable due to presence of fetch lands.)
If we want to be realistic while theoretically Scavenging Ooze can outgrow anything, its unlikely, it has worse chances for doing so than Tireless Tracker.
It needs creatures in the grave.
October 20, 2017 5 a.m.
Where did i say that Deathgorge Scavenger is a better card than Scavenging Ooze?
They are good for completely different things.
Hence one is not strictly better than the other, as they don't do the same thing.
(Similarly to how Spellstutter Sprite and Snapcaster Mage don't do the same thing - one is more of a niche card, but it doesn't make it a worse version of the other card)
P.s.:I see the "modern is X turn format therefore ... card is unplayable" arguments as completely invalid.
There are decks that can goldfish t3 wins somewhat reliably, be it via pumping Hollow One, firing of Goblin Charbelcher, or just playing a lot of 0 mana artifacts creatures with Goblin Bushwhackers.
And in the same format there are viable grindy draw-go control, and prison decks - that play stuff like White Sun's Zenith X > 5 as their win condition.
October 20, 2017 3:59 a.m.
"considering Bob isn't even played in a lot of BGx decks"
In most cases this tends is equivalent to the "its not played because its bad".
I agree, life totals are not important until you are at 1 life. Still if you have ways to gain life, you can abuse the draw power of bob for longer.
How is paying mana for lifegain effect that the other alternative provide freely, more mana efficient?
+ Hates better on the grave
+ Can grow bigger
- Requires a lot more mana investment
- Gains you a lot less life(Compared to Deathgorge Scavenger - hence one can't say its strictly worse)
October 19, 2017 8:56 p.m.
Scavenging Ooze is not a threat.
(compared to other beasts that inhabit modern, like Tarmogoyf, Death's Shadow, Primeval Titan, Reality Smasher... etc. those are game winning threats, not frikkin Goblin Guide that can get +1/+1 counters, if you pay , and have dead creatures in graves)
Yes you can play it and play removal on the same 3rd turn, but it will stay the same puny little 2/2.
And then what?
Paying its cost 2x to grow it to be a 4/4 is not so great when it will still be murdered by Fatal Push, and it will still have its ass handed to it by the Hollow One casted for the sky high cost of
Of course if you build a deck that ramps and puts a lot of creatures into the grave it can become big (and do so reliably and at reasonable speed).
But that's the same territory as building a deck for Skaab Ruinator, and ain't no spike got time for dat!
October 19, 2017 8:09 p.m.
That is not necessarily true.
It depends on how much you draw, and whats your threat to removal ratio.
Its just my opinion, but i wouldn't build my deck so that i have the correct threat to removal ratio, to always have open mana to be able to spend on either removal or ooze,
October 19, 2017 8 p.m.
I fully agree that Scavenging Ooze is more versitile.
However that doesn't make the its lifegain stronger, nor does it unmake the mana investment you later have to make to utilize this creature to its fullest.
Thus if you draw a lot of cards at the cost of your life, i would say its far from inconciveable that Deathgorge Scavenger would be superior, because it replenishes life faster, and leaves you more mana to cast the cards you drawn.
That is why i stated that the two cards are completely different.
Deathgorge Scavenger is a very good lifegain engine - nothing more or less (which uses the graveyard as fuel)
As far i am aware its better than ooze in this role.
Of course ooze can grow bigger
Of course ooze can hate graves more efficiently
(its like saying that Grim Lavamancer is a worse ooze because it doesn't hate on the graves, and doesn't get big...)
October 19, 2017 7:27 p.m.
Now that is new to me!
This is exactly the first time i hear that Dark Confidant is a bad card.
Would you care to explain why?
If you intend to gain life with it i Wouldn't say Scavenging Ooze is superior. You need to pay on the ooze to gain a 1 life, then pay for each additional point.
Thus at turn 3 you can gain 3, which is 1 better than the dino, but you lost 2 mana already.
(and you can't gain any life with the ooze on turn 2)
The Deathgorge Scavenger gains only 2 life on t3, but it will provide 2 more each turn (as long as its on the field), for free.
October 19, 2017 6:24 p.m.
In my humble opinion Liliana, the Last Hope is a novelty item, and a win more card that will fade out with standard rotation from jund lists like, Huntmaster of the Fells
Flip, Olivia Voldaren, Courser of Kruphix did.
Ruin Raider - is a likely contender to be Dark Confidant 5 & 6. Since Dark Confidant is a removal magnet, and one of (if not THE) best card in the deck, playing 6 would be ideal.
Since we are discussing the potential of cards, i think its stupid to "name decks" that play it and have large meta share, for a card that just entered standard.
Not to mention that while its true "cards with large meta share are powerful", its contra positive is not. ("cards that don't have large meta share are weak" - which is false)Thus when discussing the potential a freshly printed card, i would try to look and think farther than the typical "its shit if its not in T1 lists".
October 19, 2017 4:56 p.m.
A way to gain back some life in face of burn & life loss from Dark Confidant is very good to have.
I would say that is/was the main purpose of Scavenging Ooze in jund lists - and that is why they were replaced by Courser of Kruphix for some time.
Which is pretty necessary for decks that actively lose their own life.
There are way better cards to disrupt graveyard shenanigans, than Scavenging Ooze.
Even green has Ground Seal which, is a cantrip, an enchantment (thus most deck don't have any interaction with it in their 75), and stops the same problems that Scavenging Ooze works against.
(like gifts ungiven, storm, snapcaster mage... etc.)
P.s.: i would be interested to hear how exactly Scavenging Ooze is a threat to dredge.Since you can't response to the beginning of the draw step, and the replacement effect, i have trouble seeing how you would stop dredge from filling its graveyard. At best Scavenging Ooze may be able to exile some threat and gain you some life.
But its unlikely that you will have enough mana, in time to seriously cripple dredge with this creature.
October 19, 2017 4:42 p.m.
To illustrate this, GBX decks that run 4 or more copies of Dark Confidant effects, would benefit a lot from not having to spend mana on the activation of Scavenging Ooze, instead getting the value for "free" from Deathgorge Scavenger.
October 19, 2017 4:29 p.m.
...since when does mono green stompy feature card draw?
As i stated before, when you draw a lot of cards, Deathgorge Scavenger is superior due to the fact that you don't need to commit mana to it to generate additional value.
However for decks that play most of their card at instant speed anyway, or have a lack of cards late game (due to being an aggro deck as an example), the mana sink nature of Scavenging Ooze is not a drawback.
October 19, 2017 4:28 p.m.
I would not go so far as to say that either one of them is better.
They are very different.
Scavenging Ooze demands more, but its better as a "pseudo control" card, that can battle Snapcaster Mage - and if your deck falls to the more control-ish side of the midrange spectrum, with many instant speed stuff its better.
Deathgorge Scavenger is a better play in terms of tempo. And this card provides value without additional mana investment - thus in lists that run many colors, and draw a lot of cards (that would do more when played, than rotting in hand), it seems to be the superior choice.
October 19, 2017 3:12 p.m.
Lightning Bolt is a burn spell, not removal.
If the desperation bolt has to go for the Scavenging Ooze or Deathgorge Scavenger its a reason to be happy, since you are likely having the upper hand.
I have to agree that Scavenging Ooze is a far superior grave hate card.
(Which is not saying much, as in my humble opinion both are pretty sub par compared to things like Rest in Peace)
Still having to pay for each activation is bad.
If nothing else you need to have that green mana - which can be trouble, if the opponent decides to mess with your mana base.
Now that you brought up Dark Confidant, lets think about it, whats better?
Spending your mana to exile from the grave, and having unused cards doing nothing in your hand (without mana to cast them)
Casting those spells/permanents you draw from Bob
I would say that the second option is far superior.That is why in my humble opinion cards like Olivia Voldaren look way better than how good they are (at least in modern), where the enormous amount of mana sunk into them could be better used to play more spell - which is possible due to the fact that modern has better card draw than standard.
October 19, 2017 2:42 p.m.
as i learned with Vampire Cutthroat skulk on a 1/1 is basically unblockable.
Most deck don't run creatures with 1 power.
And even the ones that do, only run 4x, like burn with Monastery Swiftspear, or mono white death&taxes with Thraben Inspector
The only question about the creature is spending on turn 3, and the fact that it dies to removal (but that can be said about everything else).
Still considering that for , you get to draw, play a 3/2 colorless creature, and put a body in the grave for Skaab Ruinator i would say it's probably worth running.
October 19, 2017 2:27 p.m.
What's your opinion about Wharf Infiltrator?
It filters, and when it filters creatures, it creates 3/2 bodies - and it has evasion.
October 19, 2017 12:24 p.m.
If Platinum Angels end up too often in the grave, increasing their number to 3 would be the ideal answer imho.
As doing so greatly increase s the chances of not drawing all of them even when going 30 cards deep into the library - math is a wonderful help for deckbuilding
October 19, 2017 12:20 p.m.
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