Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control

Commander / EDH* precociousapprentice

SCORE: 743 | 914 COMMENTS | 202095 VIEWS | IN 386 FOLDERS


More tuning to my meta. I want to stop losing. —July 21, 2018

I have been playing some more in my new meta, and I have discovered that there are a few new dominant decks. There is a new Jhoira Paradox Storm, an Oloro and a Karlov Lifegain Combo Control decks. The thing that each has in common is a buildup of life in some fashion, followed by a win in a single turn with a ton of little pings as they go off, or an Aetherflux Reservoir laser cannon. All of them have these elements. I have lost quite a few games to them taking themselves out of reach for my non-infinite attacks. Master of Cruelties and Virtus the Veiled would help with this, but are often too late. Once they go off, I am either pillow forted in, or I lose. Jhoira frequently starts her explosions by turn 6. It is crazy. I have stolen a few games, but I have lost more to these decks recently than any in the history of this deck. The meta is much faster, the decks have greater resiliency, they do what they do much better than most decks I have faced, and they all have multiple ways to get the win. This has pushed me much more than previously.

This prompted some changes to keep up and speed up the deck.

Things that have not worked well:

Tithe, Gift of Estates, and Weathered Wayfarer - All of these are just way too slow for this new meta. I need immediate effects, and I need early gas. The fixing can be good, the extra cards in hand are good, but not when I need to not die on turn 6.

Serra Ascendant - When I get hit early and happen to survive, this turns out to be a late game dead draw. The early jump ahead when dropped on turn 1 doesn’t matter much since I still get blown out when they hit their combo, and I need early turns to either deconstruct their assault or pillow fort and not die.

Acidic Soil - When they are not planning on dropping 10+ lands, this becomes a dead draw. I never seem to get the reach when they get to 50+ life relatively quickly. Price of Progress still has reach, since it is double the damage, and having one of these cards that is searchable with Sunforger or even Shred Memory is enough.

Key to the City - I love this as a subtle card filter, strange pillow fort, and a way to make Master of Cruelties and Virtus the Veiled unblockable. Unfortunately, needing to drop a card and pay mana for it to work is less than ideal. I need those cards to not die.

Mikokoro, Center of the Sea - Too group hug. I need to try not to give out free stuff. Other people need to pay for the stuff they get.

Things that have worked well but need extra help:

Stolen Strategy, Hide/Seek, and Praetor’s Grasp - Deconstructing the thing that will kill me or the thing that will keep me from killing them, or borrowing an offensive strategy that I do not bring with me has been super strong. Being able to use anything in their deck, not just what I can cast, would be extra helpful.

Reverberate - Piggy backing their value plays has been super useful, especially since it is often cheaper than what I am copying.

Changes:

Tithe -> Fellwar Stone - Using my Praetor’s Grasp to even better effect should be useful, it is another 2 CMC rock, and given that I very frequently face a pool with at least two of any of Jhoira, Oloro, Karlov, Gisela, and various others, Fellwar Stone turns out to fix my mana pretty well.

Battlefield Forge -> Exotic Orchard - I am putting the Orchard back in for the same reason I am playing Fellwar Stone.

Gift of Estates -> Erebos, God of the Dead - Real card draw instead of just cards in hand. It also hamstrings the Jhoira Paradox Storm, Oloro Lifegain Combo Control, and Karlov Lifegain Combo Control decks. The card draw is pretty useful as well, but just stopping Aetherflux Reservoir has been worthwhile by itself.

Serra Ascendant -> Blind Obedience - Extort is a pretty nice cushion against aggressive decks, and the tapped feature is pretty good to slow down the Jhoira Storm. Not sure it will stay, but experimenting is good. I may put in the Legends Underworld Dreams I have instead, since all the toughest decks I face draw a ton of cards. We shall see how this goes. Underworld Dreams would potentially turn Erebos on, which may or may not be a good thing.

Weathered Wayfarer -> Kambal, Consul of Allocations - The Tax Man is surprisingly good against life gain and storm decks. Acidic Soil -> Fork - Reverberate was great. Fork is better. Both is the best.

Acidic Soil -> Fork - The flexibility increase from this is outstanding.

Key to the City -> Suspicious Bookcase - The price for unblockable is much cheaper, and the 0/4 blocker can prove useful.

Mikokoro, Center of the Sea -> Rogue's Passage - This one also enhances the Virtus or Master of Cruelties plan.

The results:

Jhoira vs Marchesa, 1v1: Dropped a Kambal on T3, Marchesa T4, she never caught up. I won the first against Jhoira in a while, and 1v1 to boot.

Karlov vs Marchesa, 1v1: I struggled to get anything going. Karlov ticked me down with Extort, I tried a Kambal and was Mana Tithed, and then I played a Teferi’s Protection to stave off an infinite with Exquisite Blood and Sanguine Bond for a turn. I actually Shred Memory’d for Demonic Tutor for Comeuppance. Kambal goes off again with Exquisite Blood and Sanguine Bond, I Comeuppance, and I was Lapse of Certainty’d. I died to an infinite protected by Orzhov counterspells. No one played either card before I played them here, and now I died to them. Ouch.

Jhoira vs Karlov vs Marchesa, 3 pod: Karlov hamstrung Jhoira with an Anguished Unmaking on her Paradox Engine, then Utter Ended my Solemnity I tried to use to control him. Jhoira played some counterspell control against some Karlov aggression, and I stayed out of it for a bit, building my board. Karlov resolves a Erebos to further lock out Jhoira, and turns some attackers at me while his Extort triggers kept ticking us down and raising his life above 50. I resolved Marchesa and Sunforger, and had a Rogues Passage in play. I Commander Damage defeated Karlov in 2 turns with a 7/3 Sunforger toting and unblockable Marchesa enhanced with Boros Charm Doublestrike. I almost never Commander Damage defeat anyone, but that was my only choice given the rapidly runaway lifegain of Karlov. I then settled in benhind a Solitary Confinement with The Monarch to keep it up indefinitely. I counted on Sunforger to keep my defense and offense up. Jhoira spent several turns trying to beat me. I narrowly escaped a Devastation Tide with a Teferi’s Protection tutored off my Sunforger. Jhoira went off and rebuilt almost everything, but ultimately fizzled due to her lack of Paradox Engine. I am sure she was looking for her Aetherflux Reservoir, but never found it. With her tapped out, I pulled out a Price of progress when she had 7 nonbasics, Reverberated it, then tutored up Fork with Sunforger to finish her off. She was at 35 life and had nothing to do about it, and my Solitary Confinement kept me alive.

So there you have it. Tuned a little more for my meta, the speed was increased some, and enhanced my ability to use their stuff. I think these changes are good for now.

I was able to play Stolen Strategy today. I played in a 3 player pod against Karlov Extort and Rashmi Elves Control. I did mostly nothing threatening for the first half of the game, stabilizing myself at 20 life, and Karlov and Rashmi went back and forth taking the lead. Eventually, I resolved Stolen Strategy. This put me in a position to use the Stolen Strategy theft cards for extra gas and advantage, and stole several extort creatures to go on the offensive, and then some counterspells to keep Rashmi off of my own deck's strategy. I exiled several useless lands, but the number of useful cards I got out of it was pretty impressive, especially when I flipped a Cryptic Command to the dismay of Rashmi. I won the game off of extort and accumulated advantage. Stolen Strategy is a truly impressive card, and I think it will remain a part of my list. It provides card advantage and excellent disruption, and by itself can shift a late game in your advantage.

June 24, 2018 11:16 a.m.

Older20 says... #2

I tested out Stolen Strategy a little on Xmage and wasn't impressed. I generally found the cards I got (When they weren't lands) were never really synergetic with my game plan or conducive with what I wanted to do. I would expect it also has that aura of annoyance similar to Mind's Dilation or Etali, Primal Storm where the other players get increasingly irritated that you are stealing their stuff.

Maybe it says something about myself as well that I don't like the idea of casting and filling up my board with 'cloggy' or random good-stuff cards - ones that I haven't debated over for hours to put in my 99 and fit into what my deck wants to do.

I might just be overthinking all of this though...

June 24, 2018 8:51 p.m.

I find it very interesting the varied perspectives that people can have Older20. From my perspective, all that good stuff was just accumulated value. This had the feeling of Meren the Steam Roller. I resolved Stolen Strategy later in the game, and with the low casting cost of most of my spells, I can forward my game plan, disrupt theirs by exiling stuff, and then gain lots of extra value out of their stuff, even if it is not super synergistic. Any creatures I cast are just chump blockers or valueless attackers, and any ETB shenanigans I get out of it are extra. Any answers I get are answers to their stuff, not mine. And maybe the most important thing is that all those things that were placed in their decks for uncommon synergies, those are their best cards, and exiling them is an answer I don't have to come up with myself.

The game I played, I got offense out of one opponent, and answers, including counterspells, out of another. While gaining this as an advantage, I rebuilt a torn down pillow fort to make myself invincible, tutored for a wincon, and they spent their time fussing over the fact that I was stealing their stuff. As they contended with their own best strengths, I dropped Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage. And as they were searching for removal for Stolen Strategy, my other bomb enchantments were in less danger of being disrupted.

“If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.” - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Stolen Strategy performed perfectly for me this time, and fit the above advice flawlessly.

June 24, 2018 11:20 p.m.

I played Stolen Strategy again today. My favorite moment was Lapse of Certaintying a Sanguine Bond when the blue player was tapped out and the Karlov player tried to combo off. Hard counter to exile against a combo player from a Mardu deck. I let it go to exile just for spite because I didn't need it. Priceless.

June 25, 2018 10:24 p.m.

zjepsen says... #5

If you had blue as a fourth color, which cards would you be interested in trying? I'm considering building a version of your deck with Tymna the Weaver partnered with Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist at the helm. I realize running blue loses some of the under-the-radar value of simply Mardu. But it offers some interesting options (of course). Some I'm considering: Propaganda, Isperia, Supreme Judge, Reins of Power, Illusionist's Gambit, Swerve, to name several.

June 26, 2018 midnight

RobotCowhand says... #6

Since taking out Grand Abolisher my win rate is 0%. I never realized how much I relied on that little guy!

June 26, 2018 3:08 p.m.

Not to be too cheeky zjepsen, but if you are adding blue, Cyclonic Rift, various counterspells like Mana Drain and Cryptic Command, various Clone effcts especially like Stunt Double and Clever Impersonator, and steal effects like Control Magic and Bribery all top the list. Also check out Domineering Will, Energy Field with Rest in Peace, and especially Curse of Verbosity. Your list is pretty good, but I would not really be interested in Isperia, Supreme Judge. For that much mana you should either win the game of become immortal, not just provide a mild deterrent to attacking you. I would play Platinum Angel over it.

RobotCowhand, you should unpack that a bit. Grand Abolisher is awesome, and is a pretty frequent add when I am ditching a card for some reason. It has been in and out of the deck probably close to a dozen times. It is awesome against counterspells and permanent answers that have to be answered in the moment, but it can be played around, and I never feel like I have to have it to win, even if I feel safer when I have it. I frequently win at instant speed and on their turn, and when I don't it is pretty frequent that it is with non-Hasted creatures, so the only thing Grand Abolisher stops is counterspells. What situations do you find yourelf in that would require it over something else the deck has? What decks beat you, and how do they keep you from winning? How does Grand Abolisher stop that? I would love to learn about situations I don't really encounter.

June 26, 2018 10:36 p.m.

zjepsen says... #8

Hah, no worries, precociousapprentice. I'm not ignoring the staples, just considering cards that fit the theme. I dig the Energy Field recommendation. Thanks!

June 26, 2018 10:44 p.m.

MegaMatt13 says... #9

Totally agree with you about your assessment of Stolen Strategy. It's been a great addition. It just expands the options available for me each turn and is very on theme with using an opponent's weapons against them.

I'm reconsidering my stance on Grab the Reins. I think I've been evaluating it incorrectly. I'm still down on the fact it doesn't untap the stolen creature, but I actually think it's less of a Threaten effect and more of a Backlash effect that then removes the creature after it "backlashes". It gets around indestructible since it sacrifices the target. 7 mana is quite a lot for that effect but it does have the flexibility of being a reasonably costed Act of Aggression in a pinch. I'm thinking of trialing it. What are your thoughts?

Also thinking of trying Master Warcraft as another win con option. I can't remember if you've shared your thoughts on this card before.

June 27, 2018 6:53 p.m.

That is an amazing way of thinking about it MegaMatt13. With that perspective in mind, it is totally worth considering Grab the Reins. Nice breakdown.

I ran Master Warcraft in the very first Queen Marchesa list I posted here. I had high hopes. At that point, I either didn't know how to play Aikido control enough to appreciate it, or it just doesn't play as well as it could. I would love to hear more about what you think or how it plays.

June 29, 2018 12:10 a.m.

Bloodytrailz says... #11

Master Warcraft is an interesting consideration but it is a hard sell in multiplayer. You get to choose which targets attack but you do not get to choose who they attack. Like you say in your own writeup MegaMatt13 it tends to be when you play these style of effects (goblin spymaster, fumiko lowblood, bitter feud) they tend to just come at you.

I see Master Warcraft being an exceptional card to cast alongside Disrupt Decorum however, just for forcing one player to have no blockers and taking a full load to the face.

Overall though, I don't see how it's going to fit just due to the fact that you don't get to choose who it attacks... unless you were also playing something like Mystic Barrier where you could direct those attacks as well.

However, I'm definitely intrigued in grab the reins.... seems like a great inclusion alongside word of seizing.

June 30, 2018 4:50 p.m.

MegaMatt13 says... #12

Bloodytrailz, I should have read the card more closely. you're right it doesn't allow me to dictate where the creatures attack. that makes the card significantly worse than I thought. as you mention, I suspect opponents will attack me out of spite to prove a point (even with pillowfort up).

June 30, 2018 6:02 p.m.

Bloodytrailz says... #13

MegaMatt13 precociousapprentice I'm curious what you guys think about Sun Titan. I'm playing a list that's kind of falling in between your two styles (although the list is currently not complete, still tweaking and don't own all the cards yet... missing most the 10$+ cards) and I find that I really like him. He has some really good hits including a lot of our prime pillowfort cards and some other goodies; All artifacts get hit, fetch lands can get hit, duelist's heritage, phyrexian arena, solitary confinement, ghostly prison, necropotence etc etc.

Couple times now I've found myself tutoring for sun titan just so I can resurrect a destroyed solitary confinement to buy myself a lot of turns from heavy preassure.

June 30, 2018 6:21 p.m.

Sun Titan is a staple for a reason. It would be a great include in any list that wants to run it. Decent beater, recursion, hits all those defensive cards, Virtus the Veiled, Dark Depths, Strip Mine, etc... Run it, it's probably great.

The more I play in a higher powered meta, the more I think that running higher powered staples would be fine. Maybe because the deck is becoming more well known, maybe because my opponents are running bigger threats, or maybe because I have learned to play better, but I think if the soul of the deck is preserved, you can run some power and still not get targeted. I may explore this a bit soon, and see where I can go with a little more power and a little less round about tactics to get there.

Also, Reverberate has been a total beast. My favorite spells that I have copied so far have been the obvious Mana Drain, Kodama's Reach, Demonic Tutor, Ancestral Vision, and my own Delirium. None of these were game breaking plays, but every one was a value based play that really worked for me in the moment. The bottom line is that there will be tons of value based sorcery and instant plays in the game, as well as huge sorcery and instant bombs. Any of these plays would be good targets for a instant copy spell. People will ramp, draw cards, tutor, and use spot removal or counterspells. Getting in on their action has proven pretty useful. I may end up with both Fork and Reverberate at some point.

June 30, 2018 10:53 p.m.

I intend to have Blue or Green sorceries in my sideboard.

Which ones would you recommend?

What would be good cards for mastermind's acquisition? (Including blue and green)

July 3, 2018 1:13 p.m.

MegaMatt13 says... #16

Hey buddy, curious to hear what you think about the changes I've made to my deck (plus what I'm considering cutting) if you have a moment to check them out...thanks!

July 3, 2018 3:23 p.m.

Ravenrose says... #17

I'm in love with this deck, not just because it is themed and full of synergy. I specialize in themed decks myself. This deck is creative, clever and you clearly display not only imagination but also good deck building, though the different groupings throw me just a tiny bit off. My own Marchesa deck (not on here, still in making) is compeltely different. I have gone a bit Game of Thrones on mine: my Marchesa is a combination of Danaerys and Cersei in her methods, especially her dragons and her alliances with the Underworld and vampires. In mine I am playing the Empire series: The Crown, the Sceptre and the Throne. Why settle for Queen when you can be Empress? If I may make a suggestion for this deck, though - play Merciless Eviction and Blind Obedience. Why destroy when you can exile? And why not gain life and tapping your opponents'things? Sometimes politics is draining ... Do you maybe have some time to review my Morai deck? I am very interested in what you think of it, and my other decks too.

July 4, 2018 4:31 a.m.

Sorry for the slow reply. Even on a holiday, I have been busy with work.

Discardedsquare, I think you may have a different idea of a sideboard than I understand it. EDH doesn't officially have sideboards. Every source I looked at, and my own personal preference, would be that all sideboards should adhere to the color identity rules of EDH. Allowing otherwise undermines potentially the most important foundation of EDH. So to answer your question, I don't think you should include any blue or green cards in a Queen Marchesa sideboard. If you choose to play without limiting the sideboard to the color idenntity rules, then I suggest that you look for ways to hose archetypes and not colors that work perfectly for common mid and late game schenarios.

MegaMatt13, I am digesting your changes. I love to see both the parallels and the differences between our decks and metas. I want to take a bit to respond to these, and I want to ensure that I respond from the context of your deck, but I obviously only have my meta experience to respond to. It sometimes takes me a bit to see things from the perspective of your deck instead of mine, since our list and goals are pretty similar. I will get to it soon.

Ravenrose, Blind Obedience makes a guest appearance regularly in the list. It has since very early in the development. Great card. It is awesome against aggressive decks, and provides a life cushion, and also a chip chip offense. Lots of ways that it contributes. As for Merciless Eviction, I agree that exile is a much more powerful effect, but the ability to choose two of the list, and being able to work around the CMC of my creatures to save some of mine can be very worthwhile. Still, the exile is great in many cases, so it could easily be a consideration.

MegaMatt13, I have one comment about your deck that I want to leave here since it will be useful for the conversation about my deck, and because you have removed Curse of Opulence, while I am keeping it. I think the function of that card is not perfectly obvious. You are right, it is much better early game than late. Even early game, the early attacks hardly ever add up to anything super consequential as far as loss of life. That is not really the point. Even so, chipping someone down an extra ~5 life at the beginning of the game can be what you need toward the end. It is not a game breaking amount of life loss, but it is not completely meaningless. Still, that is not it's function. The goal of the deck is to inspire action between my opponents, and to aid their development as far as that action between them is concerned, all while hopefully keeping myself out of the fray while I develop. Curse of Opulence does all three. The best thing it does is to help create situations where vendettas may be facilitated. Early meaningless attacks with a Curse of Opulence in play add to somewhat more explosive starts for me and others, and it makes people seek revenge later. That is what I want. Small life loss, helping my development, helping the development of aggressive players and potentially setting them up as an archenemy, and creating feuds. An early to mid game Curse of Opulence changes the game through table politics more than actual game effects, and that is what I am after. It is almost like a 1 CMC permanent Disrupt Decorum combined with a Helm of Awakening for some of the players at the table. It is not a game breaking effect, but it definitely has perfect synergy with what I try to do with my list and game play.

July 4, 2018 10:54 a.m.

Gleeock says... #19

I'm becoming a big fan of Frenzied Fugue - Really fun card to sometimes use someone's critter without developing the same hatred as either: stealing it or removing it... Also, increases the bang for buck on that creature since it gets to act on your turn and the owner's turn

July 4, 2018 11:40 a.m.

I like it Gleeock. I have always eyed that card, but never tried it. Definitely looks fun.

July 4, 2018 1:15 p.m.

Bloodytrailz says... #21

I had somebody play that against me once, on my marchesa.... every turn he got a 3/3 that spawned him a 1/1 deathtouch since he wasn't monarch lol.

July 4, 2018 1:36 p.m.

Gleeock says... #22

Haha, yeah thems good times. I used it on Etali a while back for good laughs, then cast Shunt to retarget removal off of the guy's Etali (I wanted him to stick around) when someone tried to 2-fer-1 my/his Etali fun times.

July 4, 2018 3:07 p.m.