Also, expect a full step-by-step in the primer. ETA: 10-15 min.

My biggest beef with Crypt Champion is that opponents get to put things into play. Like Scavenging Ooze or other graveyard hate. whereas with the Lab Maniac combo you just outright win (especially considering you could include Grand Abolisher, once he's out you win). However, this is also offset by the fact that you coud very easily put Buried Alive into the deck if you had Crypt Champion in hand, allowing you to grab Saffi, Caller and Anger and combo off without haeing to mill yourself out. there's always more than one way to skin a cat in this kind of deck.

Fair. I may swap them.

Step-by-step is up. Let me know if I missed anything or should make anything clearer.

I'll have a proper read when I have a bit more time. Looks good from what I've seen.

Oh, and btw, here's that Prossh Druid deck I was talking about: Prossh Keeps to Himself. It's janky and I threw it together really quickly, so it's definately not optimised. But its good for a laugh.

Tainted Pact is an instant speed demonic tutor.

Tainted Pact may be instant speed, but it isn't a Demonic Tutor. The way it finds your card is extremely risky in a deck with so many important cards; there's a very high chance I'll hit one of the graveyard elements of the combo before I find Cephalid Illusionist or Hermit Druid (or another tutor). I'd much rather run Lim-Dul's Vault, which operates on a similar principle, but doesn't expose me to subpar picks.

Thinking about dropping the Lightning Greaves for Shuko or Nomads en-Kor, which are cheaper enablers with Cephalid Illusionist. Nomads en-Kor is more easily tutored in this deck..

Nomads en-Kor seems like the best move, the other ones rely on the equipment AND you having another creature down. More cards means more pain. Also, you might wantto make a note in the "On a Budget?" section of the primer talking about the importance of at least Shocks but talking about the R/X lands as you need mountains to make sure Anger's ability works. That way if people are looking to buy they know which lands to prioritize.

This deck is nuts. +1.

So Cromat is a back-up plan? Wouldn't Scion of the Ur-Dragon be better for that? It'd draw more hate like you mentioned in the primer, but having a more effective back-up plan seems worth it.

First.... I accidentally upvoted your deck, because I wanted to know what that little bar ("If you like the deck.....") did....

Second.... How is Mogg Fanatic and Spikeshot Elder win cons with Necrotic Ooze? You do need another card right?

Every time I think I'm a good EDH player I look at Epochs decks and I cry

@PrecintSix6Six: Scion of the Ur-Dragon is indeed an objectively better backup plan, but it also doesn't do anything on its own. You're forced to dedicate deck space to it in order to support it. That, combined with the fact that it tends to draw hate because it's a more obvious hint that I may be playing Hermit Druid, is why I don't run it.

@NorthernRaven: Check the primer. It lists the full combos and gives a step by step.

Mogg Fanatic combos with Necrotic Ooze and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker for infinite tokens that you sac for infinite damage.

Spikeshot Elder combos with Necrotic Ooze, Devoted Druid, and Morselhoarder for an infinite mana and infinite damage combo that you can execute without ever passing priority (at least not until there are infinite instances of Spikeshot Elder's ability on the stack.

@ApocryphalSaint: I must admit that I don't think I'm the best EDH player. This deck also isn't entirely original. Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition is largely my own creation, but this deck is an amalgamation of various leading Hermit Druid ideas and a counter suite that I designed, but that is likely seen in other decks as well.

For sure. My opinion is anyways that its incredibly difficult to make an EDH deck that is truly Original anyways (again, my opinion)

I guess what I mean is that I feel i can make good EDH decks but then I see these tournie decks and say to myself " I would never win, ever"

IM not a big combo fan. I like creatures beating your face in which isn't really a competitive level strategy in MOST cases.

Id love to offer suggestions however I don't have anything I could offer past whats already been said. best of luck with the deck Epoch

Awesome! Now I just have to spend a few years saving up to buy it...

Sorry, and I don't want to make this be interpreted offensively, but could you maybe write a 'tl;dr'?

@Scorprix: In what way? The primer (I assume you're talking about the primer) has some sections that summarize the important info. Are you looking for something in particular?

Well, maybe it's just me, but I don't have the attention span (or sometimes time) to read through the whole thing. Maybe something along the lines of:

'TL;DR', for all you Lazy Folks:

Use you tutors to pick up Hermit Druid or Cephalid Illusionist + Lightning Greaves .

'Hermit Druid+No Basic Lands in your Library' or 'Cephalid Illusionist + Lightning Greaves +Another Creature' mills you whole deck.

Flashback Dread Return for either Necrotic Ooze to do infinite damage with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Mogg Fanatic + Necrotic Ooze /Devoted Druid + Morselhoarder + Spikeshot Elder or Flashback for Crypt Champion, bringing back Saffi Eriksdotter, causing an arbitrary number of sacrifice triggers, and finally bring back Caller of the Claw for infinite bear tokens, which all have haste due to Anger being in your graveyard. If you don't have enough creatures to sacrifice for the Flashback cost, Narcomoeba, Fatestitcher, and Bloodghast can help pay the cost.

Keep in mind that many opponents will have cards that can stand in your way, so keep mana open early game for counterspells.

Scholar of Athreos is a better finisher than Spikeshot Elder because it doesn't target, getting past Leyline of Sanctity and cards that prevent damage, among others.

Also, what's the point of adding the alternate combo that kills with Caller of the Claw? It can easily be stopped by Volcanic Fallout or other sweepers, and a Fog makes me a really sad panda. Wouldn't it just be better to substitute in more cards to protect the main combo instead rather than dilute the deck? Same goes with the Kiki/Fanatic combo, if you've already got Necrotic Ooze, you've basically won and you don't need an alternate way to kill them if your main one will work anyway. Finally, I strongly recommend Buried Alive along with Survival of the Fittest, so you can dump the combo in the yard and win without even using Hermit Druid. Just some thoughts from things I've seen on other builds

@DMR: Great feedback!

Scholar of Athreos is indeed a better finisher, although it can't wipe creatures that may be interfering with the win (I suppose the backup in that case is to use Mogg Fanatic's ability to blow those creatures up. I'll add it to the maybeboard and the potential additions lists for now, and it will likely be substituted in.

The Caller of the Claw combo is meant to be a backup in case Necrotic Ooze is somehow disabled as a combo piece pre-combo. It works independently of the Necrotic Ooze combo, although it does still rely on Dread Return (the other reanimation spells can, to some extent, mitigate that dependence).

I am, however, considering dropping the Caller of the Claw combo for the Laboratory Maniac combo discussed in comments #49 and 50. I'd be interested to hear your assessment of that combo as well.

I'm not very worried about Volcanic Fallout. I doubt highly that it's played in competitive decks, and it wouldn't be an economical solution to the threats this deck poses. Fog is somewhat more likely, but not by much. I don't think many people would even run it as a last ditch solution against infinite token strategies.

I do agree that protecting the main combo should be (and is) the focus of the deck. However, there need to be contingency plans that allow the deck to win if that protection fails.

I've been doing some research on similar decks over the past few days, and I don't know whether I'm impressed by Buried Alive. It's a slow solution, even if it does mitigate the dependence on Hermit Druid and Cephalid Illusionist. It's something I would need to test, and I don't really have any opportunities to playtest this list properly.

Haha I realize Volcanic Fallout and Fog aren't too likely, but my point was that going into the combat step is a whole lot more dangerous than just killing everyone instantly. Also, the combo is easily disrupted by any removal on the Crypt Champion before the trigger resolves, killing the combo right there. Watch out for Stifle or Trickbind as well. Also, sometimes reviving one of their cards proves problematic, as a Scavenging Ooze or other grave hate can put a damper on the combo.

I think that one of the benefits of putting in Buried Alive and Survival of the Fittest is that you can set up the combo without milling yourself, which after playing this deck some myself, sometimes winning anonymously is a very good thing. Also, some cards that I don't see that I would consider pretty important are Memory's Journey and Pull from Eternity, they can bail you out of some pretty bad spots if everything just goes wrong.

While I like the Angel combo, it's a lot more vulnerable than the Necrotic Ooze. Since you don't have to pass priority with the ooze, after you resolve Dread Return you instantly win. There's a lot more holes in the Angel combo, because if the angel trigger is stifled, you're screwed, so you need to hold up permission for even longer.

However, I do agree that a plan B is a good idea, I'm just curious to which is the most efficient and wastes the least spots in this already tight combo list. It could be the Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and Moltensteel Dragon with Scion, or any other combo, I guess it's up to you to decide.

TL;DR: Some cards I recommend- Buried Alive, Survival of the Fittest, Memory's Journey, Cabal Therapy (I didn't mention it, but it's good tech), Pull from Eternity, Ancient Grudge and Ray of Revelation are hard to go wrong with, and Deep Analysis isn't bad either. As you can see, flashback is powerful in a self mill deck haha.

Cards I don't really like- The backup Cephalid Illusionist and the Caller of the Claw combo. Also, colorless mana rocks that cost mana, preventing a turn 1 Druid; these include Sol Ring, Grim Monolith, and Mana Vault. Almost all required mana is colored, and colorless acceleration that isn't free doesn't actually help too much. Finally, the cheaper counters the better. Counterspell, Remand, and even Mana Drain aren't good in this deck, they're too color intensive and not efficient, I'd recommend trying to find more counters or other forms of protection instead.

Sorry for the lengthy response, but hopefully you can pick out some good feedback in here and apply it to this deck! -DMR

Crap, some other protections I forgot about is Mother of Runes, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Spellskite. These all do a great job of protecting your Hermit Druid. The reason I like sticking with the main combo and as much protection as you can fit in is because this deck is incredibly resilient and can slog through permission spells and everything else extremely well. However, as said before, I do think we should find a good Plan B, the question is which one?

Also on a side note, can you explain the need for the Kiki/Fanatic combo? It seems pointlessly redundant, if you already have Necrotic Ooze out, you win.

So this is just your average hermit druid deck right?