|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Premium Deck Series: Graveborn||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
Name a nonland card. Target player reveals his or her hand and discards all cards with that name.
FlashbackSacrifice a creature. (You may play this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then remove it from the game.)
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (16)||rebelteddybear , rockleemyhero , , Spinalripper , tragic_slip , rkarhade97 , Kiortio , Tyqar , mymanpotsandpans , Roadhog , dexxter7 , PTsmitty , marsthesoos , cj96.calimlim , Dredgar , DruneGrey|
|Want (2)||Wiggins , Spinalripper|
Cabal Therapy Discussion
1 day ago
She's really good but requires a lot of build around for the flip trigger to happen. Then, your opponent can respond to the trigger with removal while it's on the stack, meaning you sometimes need multiple ways of setting off the trigger.
Sakura-Tribe Elder is one of the better ways I've seen people get Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip to flip. I think the more time goes on, the more viable she becomes as more cards are printed. She's absolutely nuts if you can combine her with Cabal Therapy and Veteran Explorer in Legacy. As others have said, she's also good in EDH.
2 weeks ago
2 weeks ago
I completely understand its uses. The twisted mess of math behind this deck, however, makes things a little more difficult. I am actually unsure of how to explain this to someone who hasn't done some 500+ test plays wile recording the data so please bear with me.
The idea with a deck like this would be to get it to go off as fast as possible. As in turn 1. Each subsequent turn drastically lowers your chances of this. The faster you can get it going the lower your chances of being disrupted are. This is made ever more imperative with the choice to use Summoner's Pact as by the following turn if you haven't won you have now lost. Thus I chose to leave Summoner's Pact out of my decks Demoralizer and Bookwurm. This, however, is personal preference based off my uncanny ability to have the worst of luck.
So lets look at what you need in your hand.
Best case scenario you end up with Lotus Petal Dark Ritual and another one mana single card. You could, however, have Chrome Mox and also need a card to exile for the imprint. What if you don't have Lotus Petal or Chrome Mox + throw away black card? How about no Dark Ritual? Wild Cantor adds another card to the lineup. While Manamorphose will also do this for you and allow you to draw another card it has its own problems which I will likely cover (if I don't forget).
So we are now up to 4 needed cards in a best case scenario. As stated above and also corroborated in the "Statistics" section of Demoralizer, there is only about a 40% chance of a turn 1 win. Thus you would need to mulligan in order to get the cards you need while sacrificing hand size. This is where I put more of my stock in the gamble. However you lose hand size in the process.
Now add in the chances that you have more than 1 card that can't be in your hand (Angel of Glory's Rise Laboratory Maniac Azami, Lady of Scrolls and also Narcomoeba though it does you no good to discard Narcomoeba). Thus the likelihood of needing to use more than one Cabal Therapy on yourself just decreased drastically.
Yes I understand that you still have the option to use it on your opponent. However the only card that allows you to look at your opponent's hand is Gitaxian Probe, which there are only 4 of in the deck. Without it you are playing yet another game of chance. I also understand that you may know the type of deck your opponent is playing as people tend to stick very much to the meta in Legacy but you are still taking a gamble. What if you choose the wrong one? The likelihood of even getting to a point where you would take that gamble prior to casting by paying the flashback cost is next to none and by the time you would have cast with flashback they likely would have disrupted you already anyway.
Basically, this deck has no solutions for pushing into mid or late game. Remember, on the whole, Legacy is a turn 3 win format. If you can't get it to go off immediately you will lose. Spending 1 needed mana on a gamble that will likely push you into turn 4+ situation is not conducive to the play style of this deck. Personally it is a gamble I wouldn't take.
While Cabal Therapy IS a very important, nay necessary part of this deck, I just can't get behind having more than 2 in the deck. It is better to rely on mulligans to get the hand that you need. Then again you know my feelings on Summoner's Pact.
On a side note. Using Manamorphose can also be a bit of a gamble as you have no way of storing that 2 mana if you don't get the card you need. This can also push you into a turn 4+ situation.
4 weeks ago
Human_Wizard Obviously there can be no objective data as it has been around for 1 day, but there are some objective facts about the combo. For a basis of comparison let us look at a combo that is generally considered one of (if not the best) combo in cEDH, Food Chain+Eternal Scourge. It costs 6 mana to go off or 3 mana and 2 cc worth of creatures. This is often achieved on turn 3-4 and occassionally on turn 2. Now food chain is an enchantment, which is hard to tutor for. Eternal scourge is obviously easy, but still it takes a lot of FC only enablers to be consistent (i.e Demonic Consultation) or Extract). These cards are either bad outside the combo (extract) or dont play nicely with the rest of the deck (consultation).
Now let us compare that with Flash+Protean Hulk. It costs 2 mana to win the game. That is a lotus petal and a land...Green creatures are incredibly easy to tutor for i.e Summoner's Pact, Worldly Tutor, Natural Order etc and Flash is similarly easy to tutor for (i.e Mystical Tutor, Merchant Scroll). So just tutor both to hand and cast flash. If it resolves gg. The degeneracy does not end there. You can also just Cabal Therapy+Reanimate hulk from hand then sac it for two mana gg. You can also Entomb+Necromancy him at instant speed for 4 mana. gg I honestly could go on, but there is no need. Flash hulk is instantly the best 2 card combo in cEDH and it fits extremely well into many existing archetypes. It requires no board presence at all and can go off with limited resources.
4 weeks ago
have you thought about adding Cabal Therapy the chances of being able to flash it back are slime but with the total information it is a strictly better Thoughtseize also have you thought of adding Counterbalance so there is more of a good to control your top to have the counter all the time plus turns Brainstorm in to a Counterspell.Gitaxian Probe also is a good information piece another thought is adding some of the miracles Devastation Tide, Vanishment, and the one you know is not fun for anyone but overall I love the idea of a deck taking lantern control in to edh +1
1 month ago
Ehhhh I kinda wish Sensei's Divining Top stayed in the format, but the ban isn't really surprising. It's kinda the same feeling I had when Birthing Pod was banned in Modern. I like the card and wish there was another way, but I completely understand why the ban. This is especially considering the shitty slow play used to go 1-0-1 every round.
My main concern is Miracles was basically the last truly competitive control deck left in the format. Legacy has really shifted to having a large saturation of midrange. I dunno, we'll see if something else steps in. U/W Control has basically been a thing before Counterbalance was even printed. It's probably the oldest archetype in the format (going all the way back to Weissman's "The Deck").
On another note, I'm really surprised Gitaxian Probe got restricted in Vintage. Gush was a long time coming because of how well Monastery Mentor was positioned in the format. Gush has repeatedly been problematic every time it gets unrestricted. Hopefully, we see more variety between Thirst for Knowledge, Gifts Ungiven, and other blue draw engines. Gush really pushed those out of the format to where everyone has been playing UWxcontrol-midrangegoodstuff.dec because of how much value you get out of it.
But Gitaxian Probe? I guess they're really trying to nerf the shit out of Monastery Mentor and Delver of Secrets Flip. I'm not really sure that's necessary considering how diverse the format is. Swedish Nationals just ended with 5 compeltely different archetypes in the top 8. The 3 decks that were the same were Monastery Mentor lists, and only 2 of them shared colors.
For those unfamiliar with what the difference is, Esper Mentor gives you Cabal Therapy (double prowess triggers for daaaaaaaaaaaaays!), along with the option of playing Demonic Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will. This means Esper allows for more combo finishes where you make a bunch of tokens and get tons of prowess triggers.
Jeskai, on the other hand, gives you far more control options. The main cards are Dack Fayden (who steals Tinker targets) and Pyroblast (which stops Time Walk and Ancestral Recall, while also blowing up Jace, the Mind Sculptor).
I'm not sure what restricting Gitaxian Probe accomplishes, despite the DCI's reasoning. Gush is the main culprit in Mentor, besides Monastery Mentor itself. I feel like this just hurts Delver and Noble Fish strategies. If they're so concerned over Monastery Mentor, I don't see why they don't just restrict the damn thing.
1 month ago
I have a suggestion (besides the Liliana's Caress: you should use Geth's Verdict instead of Diabolic Edict. It's up to you. Also, Cabal Therapy is great but better with creatures. Maybe even Shrieking Affliction would be worth it. Despise, Thoughtseize, and Appetite for Brains are all great in Modern. Consider these, my man.
2 months ago
If the brunt of your creatures have deathtouch, fight spells can actually serve as cheap removal. Prey Upon, Ulvenwald Tracker, Setessan Tactics, etc. The larger deathtouch creatures can also synergize with lures like Bloodscent, Revenge of the Hunted, and Roar of Challenge.
If you're trying to play from the grave, return to battlefield is usually gonna trump return to hand. Reanimate, Exhume, and Animate Dead are some classic options. Vigor Mortis and Recurring Nightmare are fine, given a slow enough meta, but I think Soul Stair Expedition is on the weak side. It may be worth begging the question: is reanimation even worth it right now? Bringing back small creatures is pretty underwhelming, even if they have deathtouch. Cards like Ophiomancer, Hornet Nest, and Ogre Slumlord further reduce this need by keeping DT creatures on the board. It might be worth finding some other targets to reanimate, even if they don't have the titular ability. Grave Titan and Hornet Queen are some of the bigger deathtouch creatures I know of. For other options, Griselbrand and Sheoldred, Whispering One are bombs I've faced in reanimator. Of course, if you go in on the strategy, running enablers like Cabal Therapy and Entomb may justify running win conditions from the whole color pie.