Cards you think should be banned?
General forum
Posted on Jan. 8, 2014, 1:05 a.m. by Fairseas
In my last thread I was asking if what you thought would be considered overpowered.
What are some cards that just need to be banned from formats such as EDH,Modern,Legacy?
I think cards like Deadeye Navigator & Sylvan Primordial could easily be banned within the next year for EDH.
Prophet of Kruphix is a no-brainer here. Anyone who has ever used it, played against it, or watched a game with it knows how badly it warps an EDH game, especially when people try to copy it and/or play their own.
January 8, 2014 1:18 a.m.
I play it in a couple decks. Gets copied alot to be honest
January 8, 2014 1:23 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #6
I wouldn't ban a thing from EDH cause its a 99 one of format and you don't always get the card you want till late game often enough where you either tutor it or draw it. Yea there is a few decks that can pod into it or grab him easier but hey you don't play EDH for money do you. It's kinda a game meant to be fun. The crappier the decks the more fun it is. If someone wants to make a 99 card legacy deck not having GB isn't gonna stop em from beating you.
January 8, 2014 1:24 a.m.
Prophet of Kruphix might get banned because of the added flash ability, if it didn't have that, it probably wouldn't since it's just a more limited Seedborn Muse ..
I still hate it though.
January 8, 2014 1:26 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #8
Sylvan Primordial is a perfectly fair card...the first time it enters the battlefield. It splits games in half the second, third, fourth, and fifth times it enters the battlefield. The card doesn't need to be banned; the mindset that recursion of OP effects is acceptable needs to be banned (in casual play).
EDH is mostly fine as-is. There are strategies that get really annoying to play against, but once you get a decent playgroup it's not a huge deal to make sure all of your decks are comparable in power. And even if your deck is OP in EDH, it's not hard to play oppressive cards in such a way as to not break the game. Not everyone who plays Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind EDH puts Curiosity on him immediately. Some actually try to have fun first. Just because a combo win exists in your deck doesn't mean you are forced to unleash it.
January 8, 2014 1:28 a.m.
Sylvan in 1v1 isn't an issue . I mean in multiplayer the more players the better with Sylvan. I in no way want it to be banned, it is one of my favorite cards in the game.
January 8, 2014 1:34 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #10
The card I'd most like to see banned in Legacy is Sneak Attack . Show and Tell is already plenty powerful enough to cheat big things into play. Giving Emrakul, the Aeons Torn haste just seems a bit too much. At least if it was just Show and Tell you'd get a full turn to deal with the spaghetti monster.
I don't think it's necessarily a card that should get banned, though. Legacy is a fairly healthy format at the moment, and Sneak + Show hasn't even been dominating tournaments lately. If your deck is prepared for it it's a beatable matchup.
A lot of people are going to want to see True-Name Nemesis on a banlist, but that's a little bit rash as well. There are plenty of effects that deal with the jerk, or simply outrace it. My personal favorite answer is currently Zealous Persecution .
January 8, 2014 1:35 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #11
Legacy may be fairly healthy, but I'd like to see more than three decks make top 8! (A bit of an exaggeration) EsperStoneBlade, Death&Taxes, TES/ANT, and of course Sneak&Show make the lists all the time. I've occasionally seen Goblins and Elves, more recently Merfolk with TNN.
It'd be nice if Modern saw some more UNbannings!
I didn't play Legacy yet when Mental Misstep was legal. It was banned for a reason. How was the format when it was legal?
January 8, 2014 1:48 a.m.
Sylvan Primordial isn't even bad. Are you kidding me? It's a perfectly balanced card.
January 8, 2014 1:49 a.m.
Iona, Shield of Emeria to easily cheated in play and makes the game 0 fun for mono color decks
January 8, 2014 1:54 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #14
@zandl: Sylvan Primordial
would be perfectly balanced if it wasn't almost exclusively used to mana-screw people out of the game.
The first time it shows up it kills someone's Aura Shards
, someone else's Sol Ring
, and the third guy's Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
(a damn good turn).
The second time it shows up it kills someone's Temple Garden , someone else's Sulfur Falls , and the third guy's Swamp (kind of dirty, but ok).
The third, fourth and fifth times it shows up, it kills a total of 7 basic lands, a mediocre artifact, and a guildgate (reaaaaaaally?).
And then it shows up a sixth time (F!#$!#@$!#$@#K!).
January 8, 2014 1:57 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #15
A lot of that was personal gripes, but that's the way it always turns out when I see it played. It's usually in a Karador, Ghost Chieftain or Teneb, the Harvester deck. And it just gets reanimated over and over and over.
I've heard of recycling, but this is ridiculous.
January 8, 2014 2:01 a.m.
If nobody can kill it before it destroys 21 permanents, you should be looking at your own deck/skill before bashing the card.
Grizzly Bears would kill me, too, if I didn't know how to kill it.
January 8, 2014 2:03 a.m.
I wanna use Stoneforge Mystic in Modern. Screw your rules, old man, we're young and in love.
January 8, 2014 2:04 a.m.
BAN HAMMER ERRTHANG. Just like pokemon. They ban anything good in pokemon (the video game).
January 8, 2014 2:07 a.m.
zandl the problem isn't it living but dying and coming back and back plus copy effects ands then maybe bounce. On top of that it isn't a may ability. It has to hit those basics if nothing else is targetable. Exiling it requires you to have that answer in hand and/or available in the deck you're playing. E.g Jund has few answers available on that level. But the EDH ban list isn't about balance, its about fun. SP is an unfun card and worthy of the ban list. DEN can be but it is player based on the unfun. Call the lock/combo and,move on. Don't say its not infinite or not a look if in 2 turns of group concentrated effort and nothing stops it. Because of answers available based on DEN and his ability.
January 8, 2014 2:15 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #22
And even if your deck is OP in EDH, it's not hard to play oppressive cards in such a way as to not break the game. Not everyone who plays Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind EDH puts Curiosity on him immediately. Some actually try to have fun first. Just because a combo win exists in your deck doesn't mean you are forced to unleash it.
I love this comment ;3; I run the Deadeye Navigator /Progenitor Mimic shenanigans in my EDH deck. However, I refuse to massively destroy every land I don't control and cause the game to be unfun. I mean, you can concede, but then the fun ends =/ Why make it end so soon? Another silly thing I don't do, or try not to do, is my infinite turns (though honestly it is hard to pull off). Combo was discovered by accident lol Point is you can run the stupid silly stuff, but you don't HAVE to be ridiculously douchey about using it (looking at you Time Vault combo >w>).
January 8, 2014 2:43 a.m.
Doom Blade killing your creatures = unfun and ban it?
That's your logic right now.
Sylvan Primordial is in no way worse than things like Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger or Sheoldred, Whispering One , and other things that just melt the game-state. Sylvan Primordial is a balanced, flavorful, good, strong card.
"You played a Sylvan Primordial on turn X > 4? Darn, I lose a land, but Swords that bitch. My turn?"
"You played a Deadeye Navigator and I let it be Soulbonded to a Sylvan Primordial and now you're untapping? I guess I deserve to lose."
I understand that, sometimes, you just lose because you don't have the right answer. But that's what Magic's all about. If you have the answer for it every time, it wouldn't be worth using in the first place. But if you never have an answer for something, that's your problem as a deck-builder.
January 8, 2014 2:45 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #24
zandl you're silly. I've seen people who build some pretty intense decks and still lose to stupid shit like this, not because their deck is bad for not having an answer, but because those players played AROUND the answers.that could stop it. I agree that ALONE Sylvan Primordial isn't as bad as Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger or Sheoldred, but lets add blink effects out the ass and think differently. Targeted removal becomes useless if they can just respond by blinking AGAIN.
January 8, 2014 2:52 a.m.
The only thing that can repeatedly blink at instant-speed is Deadeye Navigator . Anything else (Restoration Angel , Roon of the Hidden Realm , etc.) is either easier to stop or easier to see coming - and nothing comes anywhere close to as powerful.
But if someone is just playing Sylvan Primordial and Deadeye Navigator anyway, how is that different from someone just winning with combo? In fact, wouldn't this be "combo" in the essence of the mindset?
If that's the case, let's ban all land-destruction, flickering, ETB effects, and combo cards. That'll make EDH more fun.
I can't believe this people hate Sylvan Primordial so vehemently. It's not even that bad of a card. Deadeye is the problem, as it takes anything with an ETB effect and makes it a combo-piece. SP is merely a tool in your destruction; hate on the master.
January 8, 2014 3:08 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #26
zandl those were beautiful words c': Oddly enough true too. Deadeye Navigator would get the ban hammer before a huge majority of ETB creatures, as he makes those triggers more abusable.
However, the combo still exists, and most players find it very unfun and scoop then. By no means does anyone expect either to be banned, but it isn't exactly fun to fight down. It isn't common, but still common enough to be hated on.
January 8, 2014 3:12 a.m.
And to all the haters out there (yes, I'm starting a sentence with "and"), EDH is a casual format with a casual banlist. If you don't want to follow it and your group is okay with that, swell; you don't have to follow it.
I've played with groups of people before who would meet on a weekly basis to play and would end the night debating over whether or not the group should ban/unban certain cards. If something became glaringly powerful, we pulled the plug on it (over a couple beers, of course).
tl;dr - EDH is whatever you want to make it. Unless you're playing in a sanctioned EDH tournament (which is BS anyways, IMHO), build how you want to build and always be sure your playgroup is okay with it. If not, Keystone Lights are dirt-cheap and drink purty well.
January 8, 2014 3:17 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #28
I agree with the BS on a sanctioned EDH tournament.
I honestly see Memnarch getting the banhammer before anything else. That thing is just annoying.
January 8, 2014 3:20 a.m.
Mmmmeh. Memnarch is good, but I've honestly never seen it become a huge problem in a game. Unless a player has, like, 14 mana (at which point, you should be ready for anything) or infinite mana (at which point, you're dead to anything), it's not going to affect too much of the board, especially if 4 people are duking it out.
January 8, 2014 3:25 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #30
True enough, but still. It's just aggravating.
January 8, 2014 3:30 a.m.
Why all the hate about Sylvan Primordial destroying lands and stuff while peeps are forgetting about Terastodon ? Sure, he puts out 3/3's, but he's sure as annoying as what you guys are making out of SP.
Protect an Ajani Vengeant and lay some whoopass back, then.
Land destruction is probably the most annoying, douchiest thing ever created in Magic, but if you get outplayed a seemingly "dirty" move, then don't restrain yourself from your Magic morals; do the same thing.
January 8, 2014 3:35 a.m.
zandl - Sheldon Menery, a member of the Commander Rules Committee, has said that Sylvan Primordial
is on his short list to discuss about at a RC meeting. I agree that Sylvan Primordial
is an unfun card, and probably should be banned. Deadeye Navigator
can get there, but if he is banned certain types of decks will cease to exist. The loss of Sylvan Primordial
isn't going to stop Omnath, Locus of Mana
or Azusa, Lost but Seeking
ramp decks, or Roon of the Hidden Realm
blink decks.
Basically, Sylvan Primordial causes unfun play, while Deadeye Navigator can cause unfun play but doesn't necessarily have to.
January 8, 2014 3:42 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #36
Sylvan Primordial isn't as bad as most stuff in EDH
January 8, 2014 3:45 a.m.
@JWiley129: Uh. What?
Sylvan Primordial doesn't gave to cause unfun play. If I cast it, blow up 2 problem-enchantments and a land, grab 3 Forests, and it dies, who the hell is complaining? If I don't use Deadeye with Primordial, wouldn't it just be worse if I just cast Terastodon instead and went entirely after a single player? Yet no one bitches about Terastodon .
Conversely, wouldn't it make more sense to say "SP doesn't have to be unfun, but Deadeye IS unfun"? If you're playing Deadeye Navigator for Pete's sake, you have one thing in mind: a shitload of blinking. No one has ever played a Deadeye for the small perk of having AEtherling 's first ability and nothing else.
Also, saying entire decks and commanders would cease to see play if Deadeye goes away is an extremely haughty statement. No one's going to stop playing those decks/commanders you forgot to list just because a ****ing Deadeye gets taken out.
January 8, 2014 3:50 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #38
I have to agree with zandl. If an EDH deck crumbles to pieces by losing one card then it sucks. If an entire archtype falls then the archtype sucks.
January 8, 2014 3:55 a.m.
I think all this nonsensical whining about LD and blinking (I hate it too, don't worry) wouldn't exist if there was a Split Second removal spell. Too bad not one exists, at least to my knowledge.
January 8, 2014 3:58 a.m.
Sudden Spoiling is good enough and it hits all of an opponent's creatures at once.
January 8, 2014 4:12 a.m.
I won't build a black EDH deck without it. It has proven its worth to me more times than I can remember.
January 8, 2014 4:19 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #43
It truly is amazing. One of my favorite Time Spiral cards
January 8, 2014 4:24 a.m.
I wouldn't say the Prophet needs banning in EDH I've not played her, but basically have set up my own version of it all artifact style. (Mycosynth Lattice , Unwinding Clock , and Vedalken Orrery ) It's a bogus setup and it can anger some people, but it's still an easy counter, easier there because while mine was 3 card, this is just 1 and 1/99 isn't ban hammer worthy. Especially with all the creature removal that exists.
January 8, 2014 4:30 a.m.
shadowdart says... #45
The reason Primeval Titan was banned was because as soon as someone played him, the game devolved into who could flicker, copy, recur or attack with him the most times. Sylvan Primordial does that now except he also mana screws people. He is not balanced, run a Bramblecrush if you wanna be able to mana screw people.
January 8, 2014 4:36 a.m.
There's a reason I run Memnarch EDH @UmbrotheUmbreon LOL it's a trolling shits and giggles deck and my friends are ok with it even though it can be a whore to face. Land Destruction was printed to balance the game especially with those greedy players who ramp out a turn 2-3 Titan or something else. I run LD in my Esper control deck because (well yes I run Crucible of Worlds ) but because a good control player knows when the rest button needs pushing. I see no logic to people bitching about it when it was printed to be used. Yes I've also have had it played against me and it can suck, but a good player always has a Plan B. As for the Navigator, he's just an enabler and certainly can be dealt with, and certainly not ban material IMHO
January 8, 2014 4:37 a.m.
Just gonna put my .02 in here since I am a Roon of the Hidden Realm player who runs all three: Prophet of Kruphix , Deadeye Navigator and Sylvan Primordial .
My playgroup consists of a semi-competitive environment. We have some house bans such as Iona, Shield of Emeria and Eldrazi, but apart from that we allow most things. One thing we don't really enjoy playing with/against is major land destruction or infinite combos. and yet, I have a friend running a Niv-mizzet deck with Tandem Lookout . These sorts of situations can come up where a win comes out of nowhere due to some silly infinite or (in the case of deadeye) incredibly good combo. But the fact of the matter is that even in my semi-competitive playgroup, those sorts of wins happen rarely.
If I play a Prophet of Kruphix , it has to protect itself for the rest of the game -- something that just isn't going to happen. If I play a DEN, it's just not going to survive unless I take the time to set up for it beforehand. All the while my opponents can kill me or otherwise harm my field. Alternatively, they can just prepare for it happening. It's not like they or anyone else who sees my commander isn't going to expect it.
But the single most important thing is that I would never EVER use DEN + any sort of LD (especially Sylvan Primordial ). Why? It's not fun. I don't get a damn thing for winning unless it was an enjoyable win. This is why I don't play Arcum Dagsson EDH. This is why I don't play any deck that just goes infinite to combo win by turn 4-5. What's the point? So I can show someone I learned how to pilot a combo? meaningless.
I play to have fun, enjoy the game, think up some strategy, and be unique. That's what EDH really should be about! Banning these cards doesn't really do much besides appease the people who are apparently playing in the wrong groups.
January 8, 2014 4:44 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #48
Every player has something they don't like playing against. Most players will avoid those things for the sake of enjoying a game. The most severe cases are early game lockdown, LD/MLD, and early game infinite combos.
These cases are understandable, as they can make the game very, VERY unfun for the other player. A game is only considered fun if both players enjoy it. If one player doesn't enjoy the game unless they win then they are just an ignorant person.
January 8, 2014 4:52 a.m.
@UmbrotheUmbreon Agreed completely. And it doesn't even have to be about the old "I h8 spikz" argument either. ANY player -- in spite of all they wish to accomplish via magic -- should enjoy it no matter what, and should want the opponent to feel the same.
January 8, 2014 5:01 a.m.
If you're talking about unfun cards than Back to Basics in one such bs card that ruins games. I can see your points above, and I recently lost to an early game infinite turns/combo deck that was just me sitting there and him doing his thing.
Smith_and_Tonic says... #2
I would see Sylvan Primordial banned in EDH but probably not Deadeye Navigator . Even though deadeye is a huge factor in combo decks, that's the only time you ever see him played. I would be surprised if Griselbrand is not banned in legacy sometime soon. He's a key player in many decks and is abused rather regularly.
January 8, 2014 1:09 a.m.