Best Flicker commander?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on June 10, 2015, 2:05 p.m. by RedUndead40
Torn between Brago and Roon... I love Brago's mass flicker effect, but he makes himself quite high priority and you need to toolbox him a bit if you expect him to get through for combat damage every turn.
Roon seems more consistent and with more options, but only hits creatures and only one at a time (barring Pemmin's Aura type effects)
Input from any Roon / Brago players?
Brago is more suited for a mana denial strategy than Roon is as Brago can flip mana rocks back up. Competitively speaking, he's better. Roon's a great casual commander, but just playing ETBs is not that great.
June 10, 2015 2:12 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #5
Brago has more utility for you, but Roon can also interact with your opponent's things as well (this also allows you to regain things your opponents may have stolen from you). Plus Roon has the extra color going for him.
June 10, 2015 2:29 p.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #6
Brago. Brago is almost damn near broken when he goes off/doesn't get removed immediately. Roon has access to green, which is amazing too, but you can do some pretty crazy things with mass permanent flicker.
June 10, 2015 2:36 p.m.
I've never built brago but I love my roon flicker deck. And contrary to what TheDevicer said, I don't think roon is casual. I mean, sure, it can be, but you can also build it so it's competitive. Granted, I don't often actually cast Roon unless i'm out of gas as he's normally just killed right off anyway.
The bant flicker deck is pretty damn good though. My list is on my profile if you want to check it out.
June 10, 2015 2:39 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #9
I'd be all over that Woodfall Primus in a Roon deck. Abuse that for 3-4 explosions a turn.
June 10, 2015 4:21 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #10
My vote is for Brago, because flickering 2+ things is better than only flickering one, and having to pay mana to do so.
June 10, 2015 4:26 p.m.
jandrobard says... #11
Unless pillow fort is extremely prevalent where you play, Brago is usually better. You do have to devote some card slots on things that let him get through to deal damage, but all he takes is a few permanents on your field to be awesome. Roon gives you green, which is nice, but he doesn't flicker as well, if you want to use him you'll probably want some other flickerers.
June 10, 2015 4:35 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #13
Having the versatility to put down your own Containment Priest in a pinch and exile their dudes is a pretty strong play too. In a meta with lots of Theros gods like I have I would run Roon over Brago. Then just have your own sac outlet to get rid of the priest when you don't need him anymore.
Also, having access to Prophet of Kruphix Pushes Roon over the top for me
June 10, 2015 4:40 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #14
Important to note that Brago, King Eternal can be part of Roon of the Hidden Realm's deck.
June 10, 2015 5:56 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #15
I think it's good to be consistent, so the infinite combo with Brago and Strionic Resonator shines the most with him at the helm.
If youre unfamiliar with the combo, you strionic resonator his ability to flicker him, the resonator, a mana rock producing at least two mana, and any etb you would like a million times, then everything reenters, giving you two mana for another strionic resonator ability. Rinse and repeat (yes you never get the original ability to resolve, but you don't really need to).
Edit: Oh yeah, and he also turns planeswalkers into crazy cards since he can flicker them to bring them back to original loyalty and to give them another usage that turn.
June 10, 2015 6 p.m. Edited.
Roon gives you access to Avenger of Zendikar, Bane of Progress, Craterhoof Behemoth, Eternal Witness, Fierce Empath, Hornet Queen, Prime Speaker Zeganna, Prophet of Kruphix, Birthing Pod, Gavony Township, Garruk, Caller of Beasts, Tooth and Nail, Triumph of the Hordes, Wargate, Genesis Wave, Aura Shards, and Primeval Bounty.
Playing flicker EDH without most of the cards listed above is handicapping yourself unnecessarily.
June 10, 2015 6:04 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #18
Yeah, Roon wins out more because of his colors than anything. The Previously mentioned Prophet of Kruphix is almost reason alone to run green, never mind all the removal youd be missing out on. Reclamation Sage, Harmonic Sliver, Acidic Slime, Woodfall Primus, ect ect. Add the ramp available in the three three drop ramp-into-play guys and the ever awesome Eternal Witness and it starts looking like U/W isnt matching up. Add the creature tutors of Fauna Shaman, Survival of the Fittest, and Birthing Pod, and you start to wonder why you would ever not run green in a ETB commander deck.
June 10, 2015 8:28 p.m.
Brago all the way. Woodfall Primus does nothing Reality Acid can't do. Thragtusk's 5 life isn't worth it when you have Resolute Archangel, and one 3/3 a turn isn't worth it at all.
I'll update and post my Brago list if anyone's interested.
June 11, 2015 4:11 a.m.
Also Brago's ramp is off the charts even without green. I once ramped into a t4 hasted Brago and Medomai the Ageless, both double-striked. That feel when you knock someone out of the game before they even drop their 4th land...
June 11, 2015 4:15 a.m.
RoarMaster says... #21
sonnet666 Woodfall does lots of things Reality Acid doesnt do, like be a 6/6 trample, or leaving you with a 5/5 trample after a wrath of god, or having an immediate effect upon hitting the board, being very easily tutorable, and being very easily recurrable.
Also, using god hand draws as an example is not very practical or applicable.
June 11, 2015 1:36 p.m.
RedUndead40 says... #22
Alright guys. Ultimately went with Roon. Threw together a list, need a few tips on thinning out a couple cards. I'm working on a semi-budget here so I left out a few important guys like Craterhoof Behemoth but I will upgrade it later.
Could use some tips! Gonna Roon Your Day
June 11, 2015 1:48 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #23
Dont worry about Craterhoof, with most flicker effects being 'until end of turn' its pretty hard to abuse craterhoof.
June 11, 2015 2:07 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #24
The fun part is, you can play Reality Acid and Woodfall Primus in Roon! Yay for getting both!
June 11, 2015 3:13 p.m.
@RoarMaster that wasn't a god hand, that happens about 70 percent of the games I play. It was only the inclusion of Medomai with double-strike that was unusual, but if it hadn't been him I would have had something else to flicker.
When your commander can turn a Sol Ring into into a colorless Frontier Siege and can reuse land fetchers like Solemn Simulacrum, Kor Cartographer, and Knight of the White Orchid every turn, you get some serious ramp. Not to mention every other mana rock in the deck, or Sun Titan attacking & being flickered every turn combined with any sort of fetchland.
Also who cares about about a 6/6 trampler when you can use a 3 mana removal spell to take out multiple permanents a turn?
But hey, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm probably not going to change it by raving about Brago on some internet forum. All I'm saying is that a lot of people don't realize how powerful Brago is until they see him in action, and I think it well worth losing the extra color.
June 11, 2015 5:19 p.m.
RedUndead40 says... #27
sonnet666, that's precisely why I ended up deciding against Brago lol.
He is insanely powerful if left unchecked, and therefore my playgroup will never ever let him go unchecked. I'd have to devote minimum 15 cards of my deck to protecting him / getting his damage through if I expect him to survive in my playgroup.
Roon on the other hand is a little less intimidating, especially if I only have a few other creatures out. I plan on playing the "I'm the weakest force on the board, don't attack me" card a lot :P
June 11, 2015 5:57 p.m.
jandrobard says... #28
You can just run Brago+tutors for Brago in Roon EDH (RedUndead40 you did) and get the best of both worlds!
June 11, 2015 5:57 p.m.
RedUndead40, Well it is hard to argue with that. I hope your Roon deck plays well.
June 11, 2015 6:02 p.m.
RedUndead40 says... #30
Thanks again for all the tips guys! Last question - any ideas for good wincons in Roon? I have a few beaters in there so far but nothing that can really put a good clock on the game.
June 11, 2015 6:04 p.m.
Well you have lots of ETBs so you should probably already be running Deadeye Navigator. It's not hard to win once you've paired him with Palinchron or a powerful ETB (or both!). Great Whale and Peregrine Drake also make good stand-ins for Palinchron if you're on a budget.
June 11, 2015 6:11 p.m.
...anything that produces tokens and Triumph of the Hordes. Can potentially wipe out several players at once.
June 11, 2015 6:13 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #33
sonnet666 So your saying 70% of games you win on Turn 4? That is impressive, I will not lie.
Dont get me wrong, Brago is great, a powerhouse if he is not blocked, but he is conditional that way as well. But everything that can be done in a Brago deck can be done in a roon deck, and more. And as some one else pointed out, Brago is generally run in Roon decks, I know I run him in mine, and with the huge number of creature tutors in green that cost 3 or less, its super easy to drop Brago T4 or less in a roon deck, thus giving you the best of both worlds. Besides, Kor Cartographer and Solem are just shittier versions of what green has to offer when it comes to ramping.
RedUndead40 Win cons vary, in mine its mostly resolve a Primal Surge, or Dead-eye Navigator + big effect such as Woodfall Primus(blowing up all the lands), or Deadeye and Angel of Serenity. Or I win through grindy control where I just remove everyones shit as it comes into play and beat them to death with mid sized utility guys. Draining Whelk has paid off more than expected, but I dont expect you to run him unless you are rocking things like Crystal Shard, Erratic Portal, Cloudstone Curio, ect ect.
I dont do combo generally though, and thats probably your best win con available, some revielark/sun titan/fiend hunter shenanigans, or maybe some Fauna Shaman + extra turn fun stuffs.
June 11, 2015 7:54 p.m.
@RoarMaster I'm saying 70% of my games I ramp 3 to 5 mana ahead very early. Seeing as my original post was about not needing green's ramp I figured that was obvious, but, since you seem to want to twist my words around, I'm happy to spell it out for you.
June 11, 2015 10:18 p.m.
jandrobard says... #35
Deadeye Navigator infinites/functionally infinites seem like a reasonable win condition.
June 11, 2015 11:54 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #36
sonnet666 sorry bud, it was not my intention to twist your words, I was seriously unclear on the matter.
As a side note, I meant Eternal Witness not fauna shaman there RedUndead40.
TehCoopeh says... #2
Roon has Thragtusk.
June 10, 2015 2:07 p.m.