Best / Favorite Aristocrats Build?
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 17, 2015, 8:44 p.m. by ChrisHansonBiomancin
Which has the best chance to be a tier deck in Standard? Which is the most fun?
Here are some of the options along with my impression of the major differences. Feel free to add in other options or dispute / expand upon my brief analysis.
(most of the examples are random decks from the TO community that largely meet the description)
Mono Black
Has the most aggressive early game with beaters like Bloodsoaked Champion & Despoiler of Souls alongside tempo-minded sac outlets like Qarsi High Priest. Can still go full-blown Aristocrat with the Nantuko Husk-Zulaport Cutthroat combo.
Golgari (GB)
The least aggressive of the 2-color options, but makes the best use of Evolutionary Leap of all Green variants due to the clean mana base. Can get huge chains of creature draw / Zulaport triggers thanks to cards like Hangarback Walker & Hooded Hydra.
Dimir (BU)
Has already seen Pro Tour success; aggressive like Mono Black but uses Whirler Rogue for sac fodder & to spring Nantuko Husk. Sidisi's Faithful is a cheap repeatable sac outlet with nice utility.
Abzan (GBW)
Similar to Golgari, but splashes White mostly for Abzan Ascendancy. Also allows for the comfort of shoving in good stuff like Siege Rhino for those worried about playing a deck where individual cards lack strength. Anafenza, the Foremost hoses the mirror.
Mardu (BRW)
Probably the most aggressive 3-color variant; opts for beating face with Butcher of the Horde, Flamewake Phoenix, etc. Kolaghan's Command & Mardu Charm provide flexible utility, important for a deck that wants as many creatures as possible.
4-Color (GRBW)
The slowest & greediest of the Aristocrats decks, but has all the toys. Butcher of the Horde & Evolutionary Leap co-exist, which is really all that needs to be said.
I like abzan, but a different type of abzan. I like a combo type deck like this: "Son, you want some fried metagame for breakfast?"
The point is to bring out Zulaport Cutthroat, Grim Haruspex, and Catacomb Sifter to get death triggers, then cast Hangarback Walker and Endless One for zero, get scry, draw, and drain, and then rally to bring back and do it all ove again for only double white. The rest of the cards are for support, like Collected Company and Bone Splinters, and the deck is surprisingly consistent.
October 18, 2015 5:07 p.m.
I wonder if a sulti version is possible Catacomb Sifter seems like it could work well with the shenanigans of Nantuko Husk + Whirler Rogue but not sure if adding green just for it is worth it or if the deck has too many three drops at the point. Would have to do some testing.
October 18, 2015 9:25 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #5
@awphutt: Four-color definitely has the most angles of attack, but my main concern with the deck would be that the mana base needed to make it function would completely dilute the power of Evolutionary Leap (for example, in the sample list I found, 8 of the 13 non-Fetchlands can't produce Green mana). At that point, the question becomes why play Green? Just play Mardu and use Vampiric Rites as a substitute.
GB seems fantastic for abusing Evolutionary Leap tho. If you're on a budget & can't get Hangarback Walker, definitely sub in Hooded Hydra; it's even better in some cases simply since it's cheaper at anything over X=2 and it works well with any Manifest synergies you might have.
@jasper123: I got a chance to check out the deck and it looks fun. You'll want some Nantuko Husk though since it's the only free sac outlet in those colors, which you'll need to combo off quickly.
@nfcnorth: At first blush, Sultai seems like it would be a more combo-oriented version of Dimir (opting for the Evolutionary Leap route over mono black beats). It would definitely be explosive since you could quickly dig up a Nantuko Husk and either a Zulaport Cutthroat or Whirler Rogue for combo kills. The mana base to support Evolutionary Leap would be painful though, as you'd probably need both Yavimaya Coast & Llanowar Wastes.
PS: Go Pack Go! 6-0!
Personally, I've been rocking the Mono Black list above since I wanted something cheap while I figure out what I want to play, & it's been doing surprisingly well. I went undefeated in 3 tournaments over the last week (phrasing it that way due to 2 draws :p), as it has shown the ability to both aggro people out or play the grindy combo game, depending on the circumstance. Whether that LGS success would translate into actual competitive success is another question entirely haha but the deck is super consistent and solid.
I kind of want to play a Control-style Dimir deck built around Vampiric Rites, sac fodder like Hangarback Walker & Palace Familiar, and tons of boardwipes and counterspells (including Silumgar Sorcerer, of course). Here's what I have cooked up on that front: Oppressive Aristocrats
October 19, 2015 3:54 p.m.
Honestly, Evolutionary Leap just seemed too slow for me to mainboard it. I've got 2 in the sideboard, but it just feels like I've almost always got better things to be doing with my mana, until I'm just topdecking. Which happens in few enough matches that I'm willing not to have it mainboard.
It's actually quite funny that nfcnorth mentioned Sultai, that's what I've been looking at for the last few days. The combination of Whirler Rogue and Nantuko Husk is super strong, but I've still found that Collected Company is probably the best card in the deck, especially since we can do it on turn 3 off a Blisterpod. I've played a couple of matches on Cockatrice and the number of times I've just gone end of turn Company into Husk, kill you is absurd, either off Cutthroat triggers or Rogue making it unblockable.
October 19, 2015 5:08 p.m.
I'm working on this 4C build: War. Really grindy. Evo Leap costs too much mana for it to be effective IMO. Abzan Ascendancy on the other hand has tons of value
Whirler Rogue seems really strong for B/U.
October 19, 2015 5:57 p.m.
The list I'm running is G/B Aristocratic elves. From tests it seems really good: Elvish Aristocracy .
October 20, 2015 9:30 a.m.
Just played 4C against B/U Aristocrats...
G1: Whirler Rouge busts open a game tilting that way already. Cuttroat, husk and hangarback walker were in play for him allowing the unblockable machine gun finish.
G2: Lilliana flung Sidisi's faithful repeatedly to slow a Butcher using Abzan Ascendancy to get multiple hastes. In the end Butcher over the top won.
G3: Butcher of the Hordes + Bloodsoaked Champion raid for haste killed a Lilliana then turned the board with 2 butchers eating 2 Champions for lifelink and going over the top each turn to a played out hand (had zulaport out and enough champions/tokens but no sac outlet). Really swingy. He would have won if he top decked a Husk.
Butcher really showed well. Surge of Righteousness is really good out of the side. Grim Haruspex provided long game value with sultai emissary and Bloodsoaked champion in each game. Twice it was either Lili dies or we trade and I draw. The lili discard isn't very good against Bloodsoaked champion either. Crackling Doom, Surge of Righteousness, Abzan Charm and even Utter End gives a really solid removal package at instant speed against a Husk.
October 20, 2015 6:38 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #10
Definitely agree that Evo Leap isn't worth the hassle in 4C. However, it would be tough for GB to be as good without it. It might not be a nut draw or goldfish superstar, but it makes the deck way more consistent & helps you keep humming along when your opponent tries to disrupt your strategy. Husk is only a good sac outlet when you're about to win and is easy to remove, so it's nice to have something that can create value & is relatively hard to remove until you reach that point.
The Elves deck seems pretty sweet. I like how Zulaport plays right into the mass Elves strategy anyways, so he can be a big contributor even if you don't get the Husk going.
In the mirror, Butcher of the Horde seems like it would make a big difference since outside of Hangarback Walker, these decks tend to not run much flying so it can go over the top of the probable stalemate.
I played another quick 3 round tourney last night with Mono Black & once again rolled people, going 3-0/6-0 against Abzan, Dark Jeskai & Esper Awaken. That makes it 15-2-0 (2 draws) in matches over the last week-plus, with only 4 game losses total in that span. The more I play the card the more I'm convinced that Qarsi High Priest is way more powerful than people think it is, since it is definitely the driving force.
October 21, 2015 4:02 p.m.
So how did people do at Games Day with their respective builds?
I managed to make my way to the finals, beating RG landfall, Jeskai, and GW Hardened Scales. The GW deck was fairly trivial to beat in all honesty, the easiest by far. RG Landfall wasn't quite as easy, but Collected Company did huge work, and having all my creatures by able to chump twice made it very difficult for him to get going. Jeskai I beat in two, with the second game being far more difficult with him getting a double Mantis Rider draw, and gaining lots of life off Soulfire Grand Master and Ojutai's Command. I was gaining about as much off Zulaport Cutthroat, but draining him for as much so in the end I just out-ground him.
In the finals I met a sort of rampy, controlly, combo-y type thing, playing See the Unwritten, a bunch of Dragons and, most importantly, the only person I'd played who had 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip (the jeskai deck had 2 and never drew into them). And that card is the main reason I'm thinking of shelving the deck. It's just basically impossible to get through a Jace combined with any form of wrath. I didn't draw particularly well, and made a mistake in sideboarding (took out Bloodsoaked Champion instead of Sultai Emissary) but that card just seemed incredibly difficult to win against. I got thrashed fairly easily both games. I think the deck might fare better with Hangarback Walkers against Jace, but I can't really afford them, and so I might just end up going with something else.
October 25, 2015 6:04 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #12
Nice work! A shame you didn't get the mat, I've been that guy couple times.
Anyways, I made it to Top 4 w/ Mono Black & lost a Game 3 heartbreaker to Atarka Red. Too bad cuz it's normally been an easy matchup, but I had a horrible Game 1 draw of creatures that can't block (it's one of the few matchups where I'm the control deck), then didn't ever draw into my instant-speed removal off the sideboard. As a result, I was one turn away from lethal when he pulled a double-Become Immense+Temur Battle Rage on his Monastery Swiftspear, his only remaining creature, with exactly the mana needed & using all the cards in his hand. I was at 24 life & blocked with 6 of my 8 toughness on board (leaving Grim Haruspex to spectate since I was dead to that combo anyways but wanted to play around BI-Titan's Strength-TBR), so his 32 trampling damage was enough.
Otherwise, I beat Dark Jeskai 2-0 in Round 1 with an aggro beatdown in game 1 & a Husk-double Zulaport takedown in game 2. Then 2-0 against Esper Dragons in Round 2 after a nutty Bloodsoaked Champion-Despoiler of Souls curve on the play in Game 1 & him mulling to 5 & missing his 4th-plus land drops game 2. Round 3 was 2-1 against BW Allies as I dropped game 1 after mulling to 5 & not hitting my 2nd land until t4 or 5, but I pretty much controlled the other two games by making sure to write Drana, Liberator of Malakir's name on all removal spells. I was able to double-draw in rounds 4 & 5 for Top 8, then beat an Atarka Red deck 2-1 after he got a slow draw in game 1 & I rolled him, I flooded out & drew no removal game 2, & overcame a 20-point swing from Thunderbreak Regent with the BI-TBR combo to take game 3 thanks to the Husk-Zulaport tandem.
So yes, in not only the same night but on back-to-back game 3's, I survived a 20-point swing then lost to a 32-point swing against Atarka Red.
With regards to Jace, he usually isn't too bad since most of my creatures swing through him, I go wide anyways & can sac with Qarsi High Priest to his plus. Wraths aren't horrible either since I can usually draw a bunch cards, leave behind tokens/manifest creatures, and/or recur Bloodsoaked/Despoiler easily. However, my deck is definitely more aggro than GB so it naturally should be a better matchup against control. I would only side out Bloodsoaked in matchups like Atarka Red where you're the control player.
October 25, 2015 3:54 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #13
Btw, I'd be curious to hear more details on this See the Unwritten combo deck, sounds cool & obviously good if it won Gameday.
October 25, 2015 3:57 p.m.
Congrats on the top 8. That Atarka Red match sounds rough though, but in the end it seems we were both beaten by combo decks of a sort.
As far as my list goes, I'll probably keep messing with it. I was kind of dejected because I got so handily killed, but looking back I didn't draw particularly well, with Collected Company being depressingly poor. I'm not sure if Sultai is the way to go, but that could be because I never really faced a huge number of blockers so my Whirler Rogues were poor.
I'll probably keep tweaking, see what fits best vs. the decks in my shop. And I'll try to whip up as close a decklist as I can for the See the Unwritten deck, I've got a fair idea about the majority of the stuff in there.
October 25, 2015 5:34 p.m.
I got into top eight with my elvish aristocrats brew: Elvish Aristocracy . Aside from some bad luck, the deck performed really well and didn't seem to have trouble against any of the top decks. I ended up losing in the first round of top 8 to Atarka Red due to bad draws in game three. Overall it was a great success for a deck I wasn't very confident in at first. Nantuko Husk in elves is bonkers.
awphutt says... #2
I'm quite partial to the 4 color variant, just because greedy manabases are great. I also think that it has the best chance to be competitive, just because it has so many angles of attack, between butcher, weenie beats, and the combo kill if you toss in Rally the Ancestors for fun. It just seems like the most flexible, and right now the mana is so good it's insane.
That being said, I'm most interested in looking into GB aristocrats, mainly because I'm on a budget and already own Collected Companys from Modern. Can't get Hangarback Walkers or Liliana, Heretical Healer Flips but it'll be interesting to see how it goes without them.
October 18, 2015 4:50 a.m.