Need good red/colorless creatures or tokens!
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Aug. 23, 2016, 10 p.m. by GoldenDiggle
Hey everyone, I am building a cheap mono-red Zada, Hedron Grinder deck and I need efficient beatsticks, or token generation.
I'm not really a red player, so generally I don't know what's good but still affordable. I know that I do kind of want to stay away from Ball Lightning type creatures, but maybe I shouldn't? Like I said, I don't know.
OutnumbRed
Commander / EDH*
22 VIEWS
GoldenDiggle says... #3
TheDirtyWizard I want to target zada with a combat trick (or other instant that would help me) so that I can buff all my tokens at the same time. Mostly I need ways to get more creatures so that my opponents have a hard time blocking all of them, because at the moment, the deck is a bit light on creatures. No sacs, no thing special.
TL;DR: I want to get more creatures so I can swing.
August 23, 2016 10:12 p.m.
MasterofMirrodin says... #4
You could use the new Hanweir Garrison from Eldritch Moon.
August 23, 2016 10:29 p.m.
TheDirtyWizard says... #5
heres a few off the top of my head:Siege-Gang CommanderMogg InfestationKiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker+Zealous ConscriptsGenesis ChamberDragonmaster OutcastBeetleback ChiefTwinflameSplinter TwinBlade of Selves
August 23, 2016 10:30 p.m.
Edhrec.com is a good site to see what is generally used with each commander. Maybe not what is most competitive, but what others are using.
August 23, 2016 10:36 p.m.
GoldenDiggle says... #7
MasterofMirrodin: I have been considering Hanweir Garrison, its basically a red Hero of Bladehold, its just a matter of getting one.(You're always so helpful when you comment on my decks, thank you.)
TheDirtyWizard: I knew Beetleback Chief is good for what I want (and now I know about Siege-Gang Commander), and I think Dragonmaster Outcast is definitely what I want. Splinter Twin and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker are good combos that I know of, but I didn't expect Splinter twin tobe that affordable! I have a Twinflame and a Heat Shimmer for extra tokens.Blade of Selves looks good if I have the mana to equip it. However I don't think I cast enough creature spells to make good use of Genesis Chamber.
pskinn01: I have never used Edhrec before, I'll try it out! This isn't really meant to be a competitive deck, its more for fun.
August 23, 2016 10:48 p.m.
All you need for Genesis Chamber is Norin the Wary or Grinning Ignus.
Token Producing Creatures (coming from a Purphoros player):
Dualcaster Mage: infin combos with either Twinflame or Heat Shimmer. You can of course let them fully resolve after amassing a horde of Dualcaster Mage's.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: makes thopters
Myr Battlesphere: makes myr tokens
Emrakul's Hatcher: makes tokens that can add to your ma a pool.
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs: a defensive creature that pumps out 3/3's whenever a creature attacks you.
Feldon of the Third Path: copies creatures that have hit the bin
Goblin Marshal: don't pay the echo.
Krenko, Mob Boss: army in a can
Token generating spells:
Note: I didn't glance at your deck just yet I just knew these by memory. Not all are the best.
August 24, 2016 1:15 a.m.
I'm with Flagellum - just run Krenko, Mob Boss and one or two other goblin producers. You're pretty much set at that point.
August 24, 2016 4:07 a.m.
TheDirtyWizard says... #10
I agree, while what youre trying to to is cool and interesting..there are much more consistant builds in mono red with different commanders. I played norin for a while and while he was fun, he wasn't as competative as I wanted him. I switched to darreti now and I love it. It was the best direction I took the deck into.
August 24, 2016 8:43 a.m.
MasterofMirrodin says... #11
In my opinion, Zada, Hedron Grinder can be very consistent. Imagine having Zada on the battlefield with five other creatures, then playing Expedite. The problem with most mono-red decks is overextending (as that's what mono-red aggros have to do in order to win), but with cards that can restock your hand for one mana, it makes a card like Wrath of God a lot less game-ending.
I'm not saying Zada, Hedron Grinder is a better general than Krenko, Mob Boss or Daretti, Scrap Savant, but the deck is viable.
August 24, 2016 10:44 a.m.
Red's inconsistency also stems from a lack of tutors aside from Gamble. Goblins solve this problem through various means (Goblin Matron, Goblin Recruiter, Moggcatcher-ok, not a goblin). The problem with Zada is that she has to be online to get the most out of those spells and is a build around me commander. She also needs a fair bit of setup to get crazy. That is where the problem of a lack of tutors comes in. Krenko only needs more goblins which is easy enough without him.
Now if you're stuck on Zada, then Krenko should definitely be in the 99. However, if you want an army of tokens then Krenko is hands down the best.
August 24, 2016 12:13 p.m.
GoldenDiggle says... #14
I should probably say first that I am running Zada, Hedron Grinder as my commander because I love Mirrorwing Dragon. I don't really have a big budget right now and I don't think Mono-Red is the best color for this type of effect (If I could, I'd run R/G with creature tutors and pump spells), but since options are limited, I'll take what I can get. This deck is mostly just for fun. Don't get me wrong, I love tokens. (Almost all of my other decks use them extensively) But there is already both a Krenko and Daretti in my playgroup (owned by the same guy) and I don't really want to copy him.
Flagellum: I have a few of those, and I should definitely get a Dualcaster Mage, since I run both Twinflame and Heat Shimmer. Have been leaning towards Krenko, Mob Boss (and Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs) because his sheer token producing power is maddening. (Additionally, Zada is a goblin, thats like 1 whole more token, whic later turns into two, then four) At what percentage of ETB token generation creatures makes it worthwhile running Feldon of the Third Path? 40%? 70%? I also wonder when Thatcher Revolt is useful aside from combos with Twinflame/Accelerate or all in swings? I see the light on Genesis Chamber and Ironically, I have a Norin the Wary looking for a place somewhere...
I know that tutors are not good in red, but this deck doesn't really care what it has in it's hand, as long as it has creatures on the field and a pump spell. I will need to get Swiftfoot Boots and friends in the deck to make sure Zada is up and running.
enpc: Goblins ftw in red, I have seen what they can do, its horrifying to some extent.
TheDirtyWizard: Mostly what I want for the deck is to be cool and interesting. Like I said, the deck may eventually change to a R/G token-creature tutor deck in the future, but for now I just wanna have fun with it. I wonder who would be the best R/G commander for this type of deck.. Ulasht, the Hate Seed?
MasterofMirrodin: One thing I do like is being able to restock your hand at instant speed, it would make your next turn really exciting! To be honest, viable is good enough for me.
chirz2792: Is Goblin Rabblemaster worth using in this case? Say I don't have a buff spell, but my 3 goblins which constitute half my current field are forced to jump the gun and attack. It seems like the drawback is meh at best.
August 24, 2016 3:04 p.m.
I'm not trying to turn you into a Krenko player par se, I was going off your original request of wanting a token army. It is your deck afterall :) Also, I just want to reiterate that all the above token producers are NOT ideal in every deck. I was just listing out off the top of my head what was available.
I get good use with Feldon in my Purphoros deck. For 3 mana I can return Goblin Marshal to the BF, getting 3 Purphoros triggers when it ETB and 2 more when it gets sac'd at the end of turn for 10 damage to each opponent.
TheDirtyWizard says... #2
what are you wanting to do with these creatures. whats the decks stratagy? i play red heavily so i should be able to help you or point you in the right direction
August 23, 2016 10:07 p.m.