Deciding if Deck Should be Duel Commander or Multiplayer
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Feb. 9, 2017, 2:19 p.m. by Profet93
Hey guys, I'm trying to determine as to whether or I should make my deck Captain my Captain, Lead us to Victory! singleplayer or multiplayer.
As I understand it, multiplayer requires large scale removal such as boardwipes while in 1 v 1, targeted removal is much more useful. I do not have any boardwipes in the deck due to Teeg and the large amount of creatures.
Furthermore, the banlist for duel commander does not allow certain cards like Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Loyal Retainers, all of which are in the deck.
Shifting from multiplayer to duel commander will allow me to place more maybeboard cards inside the deck. I would like some feedback regarding the differences between both styles of play and in which style my deck would function better.
I would like to make it as competitive as possible, even though its only a Tier 2 deck. I was considering adding Paradox Engine to the deck as well.
I am "in between" playgroups. But you could say my current playgroup is semi-competitive. I am trying to make it competitive. Nevertheless, I am currently preparing for a 1 v 1 tournament.
February 9, 2017 5:42 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #4
I believe there's a primer in the c/EDH Reddit forum. I'd check it out.
February 9, 2017 6:27 p.m.
I'm not familiar with reddit. Is there a link available?
February 9, 2017 6:49 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #6
I followed the link from reddit to this primer: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/762826-captain-sisay-in-competitive-edh-a-guide
I would make recommendations myself, but I am nowhere near as knowledgeable about Sisay as the people who play her.
February 9, 2017 6:58 p.m.
Thank you buildingadeck. You've been a great help nevertheless :)
February 9, 2017 7:08 p.m.
It should be Multiplayer, no question. Captain Sisay is far too slow to be competitive in Duel Commander.
First off, her CMC is 4, and without fast mana like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, she is unlikely to come out consistently before Turn 3, sometimes as late as Turn 4. There are fast mana options, but few options make it inconsistent. Sisay also has to resolve, then dodge removal for a full turn before she even gets her first Tutor off.
You also run into the issue of her tutoring to hand, so you then either have to play or cast whatever you tutored. That card needs to consistently lock your opponent down or win the game for you. The lack of options to slow your opponents down in is going to hurt you.
You have to figure, if Sisay comes down on Turn 4, she is tutoring Turn 5, and you should be under 10 life. Of course if you're relying on the other cards in your deck, why are you playing Sisay in the first place?
Examples of decks you need to beat:
Is Hexproof, when he swings he brings a 4/4 Flying Angel with him, every turn. Also runs a lot of Control to stop you from doing what you want.
Comes down Turn 1, is swinging for 2 each turn. By Turn 4, if you haven't killed him, he has done 8 damage, by himself. He typically runs Burn spells and other cheap Haste creatures. If you do remove him, he is 3 mana to recast which is still cheaper than your Commander. Also note that in combat, him and Sisay kill each other.
Plays Control to slow you down until they can play Vial Smasher. Then the first spell of each turn hits you for damage, even on your turn if they Counterspell, you take 2 damage. Kraum is used primarily for its addition of to the deck and the fact that it is going to slam you for 5 damage when it comes out.
Control and Aggro rule Duel Commander. doesn't really excel at either. Your Commander and color combination is much more suited to Multiplayer.
February 9, 2017 7:55 p.m.
I agree with the majority of what you said. But green/white has a lot of hatebears and mana ramp to help speed me up and slow my opponents down. I'm also working on lowering the curve a bit. I also didn't want a deck that was reliant on my commander to win. Sisay serves as an extension of my deck, not it's purpose.
February 9, 2017 8:05 p.m.
I understand what you're saying, but you would need to completely restructure your deck. You aren't running any Hatebears that are relevant.
Aven Mindcensor is ultimately pointless. While people do Tutor, it happens a lot less as the games are much shorter. You have to remember that the average CMC is a lot lower than Multiplayer, and some of the best low CMC Tutors are banned.
Dragonlord Dromoka is too slow. He seems good but will likely never swing. Typically you will either be killed before he can swing, or he will be removed.
Gaddock Teeg is almost completely irrelevant. You can think of Duel Commander almost like Tiny Leaders. The average CMC is REALLY low as the games don't last nearly as long.
Iona, Shield of Emeria is a great card and I tried running her in Kaalia of the Vast as she will never he cast in Duel Commander, but how are you going to get her into play? I'm not sure I've ever seen a DC game last till Turn 9. You would need an aggressive ramp package that can still survive while ramping.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence is always a great card. Most Commanders I see have Triggered Abilities and not Activated. Could be useful against creatures like Mother of Runes though.
Another reason I brought up that it was bad to tutor to hand is that cards like Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughtseize, Duress, etc are all included in any deck running .
If you are running Sisay for colors, then there could be better options. I would say most decks really want there Commander, those that care less are typically like Zurgo Bellstriker that are just trying to burn you down anyway.
I would like to mention, that they are two COMPLETELY different formats. Examples include the targeted hand hate like I said above and cards like Lightning Bolt are never ran in Multiplayer, but are ALWAYS in DC decks in . Think of DC more as a Highlander format and less like Commander. The main difference of course being the fact that you get the consistency of having a Commander. Your Commander will typically be relevant to the deck.
To give you an idea, to beat Geist of Saint Traft, you will need to either Counter him being cast which will be hard for your colors, or kill him in Combat. Just blocking him won't help due to his Angel friends. At the latest he is coming out Turn 3, and swinging Turn 4. You will be dead by Turn 6. You are hoping he doesn't either draw or tutor for Steel of the Godhead. This is the kind of situation you want to consistently be able to beat.
Expect the game to end around Turn 6. Each round is a best 2 out of 3, and each is timed for around 55 minutes. From my personal experience, most rounds are completed by 30 minutes. To give you another idea, I've seen people try to run Purphoros, God of the Forge and he was a bit too slow.
February 10, 2017 6:10 a.m.
To give you another example I will use Zurgo.
Turn 1 - Zurgo Bellstriker, both players at 20.
Turn 2 - Zurgo attacks for 2, opponent casts Lightning Bolt for 3 damage, and Shock for 2 damage. Unless you have done something, your opponent is at 20, you are at 13.
Turn 3 - Zurgo attacks, opponent casts Ball Lightning. You should have blockers, so it depends on their toughness on the damage, but Zurgo is coming in for 2 and Ball is coming in for 6. If nothing goes blocked, you are at 5 life.
Obviously every game won't go that way, and typically it will be a bit slower, especially if you have Counter magic up. You will still face a bunch of cards just like these. Keldon Marauders does 2 damage just by entering and leaving, it may do combat damage, Keldon Champion is Lightning Bolt and swings in combat at least once if it's Echo cost isn't paid, Fireblast can be a killing blow as most cards will be cheap and they will just Sac two Tapped lands, etc.
You could easily say Turn 4 your opponent plays a Keldon Champion for another 6 incoming damage. Turn 5 would be tap two mana for Keldon Marauders, then Sac those two lands to Fireblast. Your opponent still has 3 mana for next turn which should cast almost anything in their deck.
I would say that and are the two weakest colors in Duel Commander. has the benefit of Counter magic. has Hand Disruption and the best tutors not banned. has the Burn to either burn face or remove creatures. has Ramp but your opponent is swinging in and burning for damage while you ramp. is kind of lacking, it has Enlightened Tutor but it isn't that big of a deal. Even the best removal Path to Exile ramps your opponent, and Swords to Plowshares gives your opponent life. Swords is the obvious better choice as the creatures tend to be cheap and effective, so Path gives your opponent a larger benefit.
Just keep these things in mind. Try to build your deck to end games by Turn 5, Turn 6 at the latest. Games may last longer than this, but that is the goal you should shoot for.
February 10, 2017 7:04 a.m.
Thank you for your detailed explanations. Wow. I never really thought of it like that. I have never played Duel Commander and I didn't realize that it was best out of 3, nor the reduced avg cmc.
You say the hatebears I am running are irrelevant. If that is the case, then which hatebears should I be running that are relevant? Moreover, which cards (in addition to the ones you previously mentioned) should I take out as they are not worth their weight in Duel Commander?
So far I am thinking of removing Elvish Visionary, Aven Mindcensor, Dragonlord Dromoka, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Acidic Slime, and Sigarda, Host of Herons, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite as well as the banned cards such as Loyal Retainers, Sol Ring and Mana Crypt (replacing Ancient Tomb with a land).
Which cards from my maybeboard would you recommend me to include or other cards that I have not listed?
I would like to Keep Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Gaddock Teeg. I based a large portion of the deck around Teeg and I have a soft spot for him. Linvala is a win condition and is great on it's own.
February 10, 2017 1:06 p.m.
Well I was explaining why I believe you should keep Captain Sisay as a Multiplayer deck. She is quite good in Multiplayer and can be a lot of fun.
My suggestion for Duel Commander is to look into the Meta and perhaps build a new deck for that. Of course I would make sure you have people to play against if you are going to spend money on a DC deck. In my area I have people to play against, but Multiplayer is pretty much what everyone plays.
February 10, 2017 2:05 p.m.
Honestly, when I first heard about the commander format, I thought it was 1 v 1 until I found out otherwise. I really like the concept of 1 v 1 because I hate having to wait SO LONG for my damn turn. Moreover, there are so many variables and politics in multiplayer that just (in my opinion) convolutes the game.
Moreover, 1 v 1 seems quicker than a 4 -5 multiplayer game. Even if it means spending some $ on editing this deck as I really want it to work in 1 v 1.
In case I feel that Sisay is still too weak in 1 v 1 after my local tournament on Sunday, would you be able to suggest a few commanders which would thrive in that environment?
My apologies for all of my questions. You just have great insights
February 10, 2017 2:17 p.m.
Honestly my favorite Duel Commanders right now are Vial Smasher the Fierce + Kraum, Ludevic's Opus.
They put you in Grixis colors, the top 3 in DC imo. You get Counter magic available to you, you get the best Burn spells like Lightning Bolt, and the targeted Hand Disruption and Tutors. Also read Vial Smasher, opponent chosen at random? Well that's no good.....WAIT!! I only have ONE opponent!! Fantastic!!
I also like to play effective cards that go under the radar. Like Dash Hopes for example. First off, it's a Counterspell. I LOVE non- Counterspells. It also gives your opponent the choice of paying 5 life to counter it. It's a win/win either way. You either Counter the spell you were targeting, or your opponent just paid 5 life in a 20 life format. Beautiful. You also get the benefit of sometimes doing 2 damage with Vial Smasher on cast. Do note that the damage is dealt on Cast, not resolution. So if you opponent pays the 5 life to counter it, that is 7 damage, from one spell!!
All in all I am a huge Off Color fan. Like the off color Counter magic I already mentioned, and stuff like Fog in other colors. Darkness and Dawn Charm are examples.
What is great about that Commander combo, is you get to use the new Partner mechanic, Vial Smasher is extremely effective allowing you to slow your opponent down while doing consistent damage at the same time. Then later you cast your second Commander, Vial Smasher burns your opponent for 5 on cast, then your second Commander is Flying (huge in DC), and it has Haste!! Why does it have Haste!? That's 4 damage in Combat the turn it comes in. Up to 9 damage for casting one card!! It also has a useful ability giving you card draw if your opponent casts more than one spell in a turn.
I've been rambling a bit, but why I like these Commanders is because most decks choose to be either Control OR Aggro. These two play both, at the same time. Vial Smasher threatens to do damage to your opponent on THEIR turn. Counter that spell you didn't like? Enjoy the free damage you got with it.
Control Burn deck? Oh man am I in love!! You also get to play great creatures like Thing in the Ice Flip. Oh man is that card fun in the deck. It comes down before your Commander. Great blocker, dodges Lightning Bolt, and you will be spell slinging being able to flip it relatively fast. Of course you get the best 1v1 card ever in True-Name Nemesis.
I'm rambling again. In short it's a lot of fun. It is really competitive. You might already have these cards depending on how many Commander products you buy!! All I do is WIN WIN WIN WIN!!
buildingadeck says... #2
It really depends on how competitively you want to play. With Sisay, you can play a heavily combo oriented deck, right now. With the printing of Paradox Engine, she got a lot better. Do you have a playgroup currently?
February 9, 2017 5:07 p.m.