|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Magic Game Night (GNT)||Common|
|Core Set 2019 (M19)||Common|
|Hour of Devastation (HOU)||Common|
|2012 Core Set (M12)||Common|
Combos Browse all
: Gain one mana of any colour.
1 week ago
Love the match-up. I run TYS Kess as well, and it can run super smooth. I have a few quality of life upgrades I can recommend, but ultimately everything has to come down to what works best in your local meta.
For starters, I would reduce the land count by about 3-5. Particularly, I would cut Nykthos and then a combo of islands and/or swamps. Devotion works well in mono to two color decks, but TYS relies on you pulling spells more than lands or permanents, so you won't get as much value out of it here. Instead, I'd recommend Temple of the False God . Most times, you can get it online fairly regularly and having one land that taps for 2 colorless is pretty dope. I'd also recommend either the Dimir Aqueduct or Izzet Boilerworks . Karoo lands may set you back just a bit, but you want as much value as you can get out of it. Ultimately, I'd say drop back to 34 lands, and add Temple and a Karoo land of your preference into that mix.
Next, you have a decent creature-base, but I would tweak and trim that a little bit as well. I'd sub out Hypersonic Dragon for Backdraft Hellkite and remove Crypt Ghast and Consecrated Sphinx . All of those are solid choices in most cases, but Ghast hits the same issue that Nykthos does. Hypersonic is decent for value, but opening your graveyard further with Backdraft so you're not limited to just 1 card per turn is huge on your storm turn. Lastly, Sphinx is an absolute monster of a card, but it might come out a little too late to really get you ahead. I'd add a Mystic Remora , but that's personal preference. Honestly, Sphinx could go either way depending on your meta.
As for Instants, I'd sub out Boomerang for Chain of Vapor , Counterflux for Flusterstorm , Countersquall for Negate , Dissipate for Swan Song , Reverberate for Increasing Vengeance , Rewind for Muddle the Mixture , and Undermine for Disallow . My reasoning for Chain is that most people won't sacrifice a land to copy it, and if you really need to save something, you can do it to yourself, sac a land, and then bounce someone else's permanent. Not to mention, it's a good way to keep something heavy off the board if they use a ritual to sneak a threat in early. As for the counterspells, some of them in there seem a little narrow compared to the ones you had (i.e. they target specific card types), but the most threatening things you'll deal with on your main storm turn are instants and cards with flash, so conditional counters work as good defense for off-turn threats. Also, Muddle the Mixture is a great tutor if you have a lot of 2 CMC cards, because it will fetch you any of them for just 3 mana. It also doubles as a counterspell sometimes. For Increasing Vengeance , I always recommend this over other red copy spells because it gets so much more value out of the graveyard, even more so if you cast it with Kess. Instead of having to pay the flashback, you play its normal CMC and get a double-copy for the price of one (not to mention its interaction with TYS).
Artifacts, I'd swap Manalith and Vedalken Orrery for Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Creativity . Extra mana rocks will help you get around land destruction, and provide you extra mana acceleration earlier. They also don't require you to filter mana the same way the signets do, but in exchange they do hurt.
I'd see if you can fit a Narset, Parter of Veils in place of Liliana. She works wonders for digging purposes, and totally shuts down everyone else's draw.
Lastly, for sorceries, I'd remove Barter in Blood , Decree of Pain , Fabricate , and Mana Geyser . In their place, I'd put Anger of the Gods , Cabal Ritual , Entomb , and Desperate Ritual . Anger absolutely nukes graveyard value, and if you hit it off storm it only gets stronger. Cabal Ritual works as a much more efficient black ritual once you hit threshold, which you should hit fairly quickly if you're cantripping and looting often. Entomb is just as good as tutoring to hand with Kess because if you're looking for a spell, just pitch it and cast it without conditions.
Wow, that was a lot longer than I expected. For some final additions, I'd recommend Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast , Narset's Reversal , Arcane Denial , and Fire Covenant . REB/Pyro works as a good defender on storm turn and can remove a pesky blue permanent that's complicating your life. Narset's Reversal is excellent at protecting your own spells from counters, providing you extra iterations of those spells if you have excess mana, and copying particularly useful spells from other players if you don't want to be effected by them. Arcane Denial is an excellent cheap counter that, though it draws you and an opponent cards, works as a decent political tool and can buy you an extra turn when you're storming off. Lastly, Fire Covenant is a great targeted wipe spell. If you put enough life in it, you can take out just about any number of creatures that are giving you headaches without losing your own in the process.
Overall, I see a lot of potential in the deck and think it could be super smooth with a few changes. The biggest enemy in EDH is inconsistency, so you have to fight that harder than most of your opponents. Also, life is a resource too. Starting at 40 makes it really easy to pay life into spells. I hope this almost dictionary of changes helps, and I look forward to seeing it progress!
1 week ago
There are so many mana rocks that are better than
that not one single copy should ever get used regardless of budget. The most obvious replacement is
which is the most played card in EDH but the signets and talismans were already mentioned, the diamond cycle, ie:
Sphere of the Suns
are better by virtue of being only 2 CMC to cast.
At 3 CMC you have: Mana Geode [scrys], Commander's Sphere [draws card], Pristine Talisman [gains life], Heraldic Banner [anthem], Spinning Wheel [taps creature], Vessel of Endless Rest [reclaims card for yourself or buries a card an opponent is recurring from their graveyard back into their library], Crystal Ball [scrys], guild Keyrune and Cluestone cycles [animate or card draw], Darksteel Ingot [at least it is indestructible], Seer's Lantern [inferior version of the Crystal Ball], not to mention much better ones like Chromatic Lantern , Worn Powerstone or Coalition Relic .
2 weeks ago
Alright so a few suggestions I would make for this deck:
Get some more mana rocks and mana fixing into this deck it will help your games be more consistent and you can get some really cheap rocks that aren't as efficient but will still help you a lot.
I am not a huge fan of Wight of Precinct Six I dislike cards that rely so much on other player's graveyards if I am not actively milling them.
I would recommend getting some removal in this deck to help you protect yourself better and maybe disrupt your opponents plans. You have murder which works well, maybe throw in a Bone Splinters ?
Additionally this depends on how much you want to play aristocrat or swing wide. But if you are working toward killing zombies to bring down your opponent maybe a Zulaport Cutthroat or a Falkenrath Noble would help?
Anyway, I hope these suggestions help and enjoy your deck. It looks fun!
I would also recommend some targeted removal if you can get them.
2 weeks ago
2 weeks ago
2 weeks ago
enpc Your response makes me believe you didn't actually read the OP through. Further suggested by how you said earlier that I forgot to talk about White's ability to resource denial while I clearly had a shorter paragraph mentioning Armageddon , Ravages of War and Limited Resources and how I didn't believe that archetype was a very progressive way to forward white's multiplayer playability in Commander, even though it is one of white's more powerful archetypes but it has some nasty side effects on the political spectrum.
My main problem with white having to almost exclusively go to artifacts for fixing their problems on ramp and card draw is exactly because artifacts are plentiful in Commander and therefore many run artifact removal. It is quite tough as a white player that spent a lot of mana on dishing out mana ramp and/or card draw artifacts, just to have an opponent cast Bane of Progress or Vandalblast or be the target of an incidental Casualties of War or Aura Shards , and there's limited options for white to counter that, bar the expensive catch-all . Why green has better and more flexible counters that actually fits white more is a bit strange to me and I wish white had at least a comparable answer that didn't cost 40$.
In a way I wouldn't mind if white also got some artifact restoration as they did in the older days . Blue and red has some good artifact pulls but white did have that same affinity back in the day, so it is definitely part of their color pie . White just has a huge problem again with the symmetrical effects being a disadvantage in multiplayer unless they can fuel the graveyard - which they cannot by themselves.
One solution could be a Tempting Offer card that pulls back artifacts.
Tempting Offer Show
White's tempting artifact recovery
Tempting Offer - Return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Each opponent may an artifact card from their graveyard to the battlefield. For each opponent who does, you may return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Most opponents would likely take the offer to return their strongest artifact to their board, and in exchange white gets to mass-return their wrecked artifacts at a discount. Unlike say Tempt with Discovery which in general should never be accepted.
One of the mana ramp suggestions (in the OP) was indeed to return low CMC permanents, which could hit ramp artifacts as well - so pulling double duty and well within white's color pie. Getting extra lands this way is more resilient versus playing mana artifacts but requires extra steps compared to mana artifacts and will never be a true replacement but merely a supplement. And it's not the first time white restores lands .
I think it would be better if white players could included these types of permanent restoration cards into their decks and it was viable, rather than having to put Manalith into their deck.
Again these suggestions are unlikely to replace mana artifacts or become auto-includes, but they could provide good supplementary support. I advocate choice, but if improvements could be made to a color specific solution to a color that falls behind in the format, then I see no issue.
And none of the suggested cards are something I would imagine would swim rather than sink in eternal formats, but it's possible there's something I overlook.
It's also meant as a general take on a possible solution, and not necessarily the only thing needed to improve white's ability to compete in casual EDH. For instance if the land restoration cards I suggested was a way to go, then more cards that facilitate that line of play could be made. More functional reprints of Evolving Wilds , a variant on Flagstones of Trokair or basically anything that helps that line of play and doesn't need to be *the* fetchlands . Prismatic Vista was a very good alternative to the fetchlands, that sadly has taken a very similar price trend. Although I think that may have more to do with the price of the Modern Horizons set compared to what value was in there, than the actual card - a cash-back so to speak. Now I just hope for future functional reprints - even while owning 2 Prismatic Vista s.
White lands that end up in the graveyard Show
Variant on Flagstones of Trokair
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a basic Plains card and put it onto the battlefield, you gain 2 life.
Something with a line of play that lets you put lands into the graveyard but not fall behind on lands in play.
, : Look at the top 6 cards of your library, you may put any number of land cards from among them into your graveyard, then put the rest of the cards on the bottom of your library in a random order. You may shuffle your library.
Outside the colors of Jund's lands matters deck. Outside of most landfall decks. Will likely cause Crucible of Worlds to increase in price, but is an example of something white could do that isn't specifically self-mill, isn't draw discard and isn't land- Buried Alive .
White have previously had a somewhat similar effect in Endless Horizons , one that is somewhat similar to Land Tax . Where Endless Horizons essentially provides deck thinning and pseudo card-advantage, it also presents a rather significant risk if blown up, especially if you play greedy - don't do it. This suggested land or whatever it will end up being, it doesn't need to be a land... it can thin your deck and throw lands in the graveyard, and provide a library shuffle if needed.
What I mean to say with the above, is that the suggestions in the OP and here is more about a direction of solutions to this perceived issue with white in casual Commander, more than it is "this card will single-handedly turn white into just as great a color as green for Commander". Therefore reflecting on these cards' viability in context to only existing cards would be against the point I try to make.
Think of red for a moment. For almost two decades, red didn't have actual card advantage. They had Browbeat as a punisher mechanic, they had Wheel of Fortune in the very early days but those are more exceptions than the rule. Then red got their temporary draw or draws with downside with an underlying theme "it's here in the now, use it or waste it". Card draw is so basic and essential to the game, that each color has come up with ways to achieve it. I think white needs to find a similar solution for multiplayer formats.
And finally, to quote you; "But if your argument is that they're not as good (the manarocks) and so you don't want to play them, then tough, welcome to how balancing works. And if that's not fair in your mind then you have some really bad double standards."
Does balancing need to include price tags? Joke aside.
But how come a large portion of the Commander community has expressed that white and to a lesser extend red are the least powerful colors in Commander, especially white when considering mono color? Red is getting support lately and is improving, but white falls behind.
Do you claim you know balance better than all those people?
3 weeks ago
Hey Kehrmann15, here are some thoughts about the deck, especially how to improve it with cards we already have in our playgroup.
Arvad the Cursed : In the current deck he probably has too few other Legendaries he can reliably pump. I would tend to replace him with a lord who pushes all the Knights. For example I could give you Benalish Marshal .
Kwende, Pride of Femeref : Similar to Arvad, there are very few targets at the moment. (Three Knights with Firststrike.) As a good replacement I could give you e.g. Aryel, Knight of Windgrace . Besides her respectable 4/4 vigilance (especially useful in multiplayer) she is a "mana sink", so she can use open mana even if you can't play hand cards. Specifically, she creates Knights tokens or destroys other creatures on each turn.
Belle of the Brawl and Skynight Vanguard would be shaky candidates for me, which could ideally be replaced by stronger Knights. Perfect would be for example Puresteel Paladin and Knight Exemplar . But both are not quite cheap and unfortunately I don't have them either.
Otherwise I'd rather go in the direction of 25 creatures, so maybe add two more value creatures. For example, I could give you the two: Kambal, Consul of Allocation fits well to your drain theme. Which you did to Neotopian and me last time. Sram, Senior Edificer lets you draw a card for each piece of equipment.
This brings us directly to the next topic.
Card Draw still seems to me to be the weakest point in the deck. Cards I can give you from my collection would be Read the Bones (e.g. as a replacement for Call the Cavalry , because you don't really play Go-Wide with the deck and hardly profit from it), Skullclamp and Sunforger (both equipment with which you have more synergies and absolute "must haves" in the deck). Especially Sunforger is crazy with your Commander, if you can fetch a CMC4 Instant for 2 mana and cast for free.
For the Sunforger to work properly, we need a few more instants with impact for <=CMC4.
Removal should be as versatile as possible ("target permanent" is better than "target creature") and as reliable as possible ("destroy" or even "exile" better than "x damage"). Therefore I would replace Integrity / Intervention by Utter End and Justice Strike by Swords to Plowshares (if any of us have it). Adamant Will is only good in special situations, so I would replace it with a good removal. I could give you Bedevil for example.
In order to have Sunforger or other cards on hand at the right time, a few tutors would be helpful. For example, I could give you Diabolic Tutor from my collection. Open the Armory would also be a cheap tutor who fits well to your topic.
I'm not finished on the other topics yet, but here are my first notes on equipment, mana rocks and lands:
Find a few stronger pieces of equipment to replace the following:
No Taplands without upside (Gates etc.). If we don't find better duals (e.g. the scry temples would offer a nice upside) replace them with basics.
3 weeks ago
I listed all of the better mana rocks from a playability point of view, which included some very expensive ones to buy. But on the less playable end (3+ CMC) there are a slew of cheap to buy mana rocks, like Manalith , Darksteel Ingot , etc.
"But those rocks aren't good" you might ask yourself. And that's the point. There are a bunch of "less good than the green alternative but still playable in a casual environment" mana rocks which white has access to. But if your argument is that they're not as good and so you don't want to play them, then tough, welcome to how balancing works. And if that's not fair in your mind then you have some really bad double standards.
Manalith occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%