Proper Ruling for Madness
Asked by TheGodofNight 7 years ago
I was playing some kitchen table magic with a friend and he played Fiery Temper while I had the Jace Emblem for Jace, Unraveler of Secrets on the field. The Fiery Temper was the first spell he cast. So it was countered. He then attempted it cast it for it's madness cost.
I tried to explain to him that madness only applies when a card is discarded, and for a card to be considered discarded, it has to be from the player's hand. He brought up the Magic Rules Primer page for "Madness" on his phone, and read the first paragraph to me, citing: "allowed the spell to be countered, and didnt let your opponent "mess" with the card you were going to play." Now, this isn't part of the official ruling, which is located lower down on the page. In order to settle the disagreement and continue playing, I allowed him to do this, offering to get a ruling later.
Here is the link to the page in question where he is getting that idea:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/rules-primer-madness-2002-01-24
I'm fairly certain that a card must be discarded before its madness costs can be paid, and that can only occur when it is discarded from a player's hand, not countered by a spell or ability. If someone can provide me with the correct rules reference, I would appreciate it. If I'm actually wrong and my friend was correct, please let me know with the ruling citing that. Thanks in advance.
Raging_Squiggle says... #2
What your friend read to you was not a ruling at all. It was their criteria for the thought process of creating the ability Madness.
"Our task was to create an ability that would let you play a card whenever you discard it"
- Fairly straightforward. Their goal.
"allowed the spell to be countered"
- Meaning when cast from exile, the spell could be interacted with while on the stack and countered.
"and didnt let your opponent 'mess' with the card you were going to play."
- References the replacement effect that sends the card to exile, making it hard for your opponents to interact with or disrupt it until you're ready to cast it.
September 29, 2016 2:01 a.m.
Also, they changed the rules for Madness this year, you linked an article from 14 years ago.
Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #1
702.34a Madness is a keyword that represents two abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with madness is in a players hand. The second is a triggered ability that functions when the first ability is applied. "Madness [cost]" means "If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but may exile it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard" and "When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesnt, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard."
Taken directly from the Official Comp Rules of mtg. Source
September 29, 2016 1:49 a.m.