Chandra's Incinerator is a no brainer for me.

Fiery Emancipation is a win more card. In a ping damage deck (like my feather deck) it could be useful for a quick win. But for this deck i really don't think it would worth cutting something else.

Eloniel - I also have concerns about Emancipation being win more, but its only one more mana than wound reflection, gives back up if wound reflection is removed, an extra slot so that its easier to draw into, and doubles our reach for a lot of our wincons even past what wound reflection is capable. The triggers also go on the stack immediately, preventing the scenario where wound reflection is removed before end of turn and the damage/life lost is never doubled, usually resulting in our opponent(s) not dying (this has happened to me often, as my meta actually plays interaction). It might be a bit win more, in that yes wound reflection exists already, but I think the pros outweigh that. It's only 1 mana more (still cheaper than Gisela!), and doubles down on something we're already trying to do, making us basically 50% more likely to draw it (since you're not normally going to burn a tutor on a wound reflection unless you're sitting pretty flush).

As a quick note: Both Wound Reflection and Fiery Emancipation have the same CMC.

General thoughts: Wound Reflection picks up on your opponents' fetch lands and shocklands and, most importantly, the damage or loss of life your opponents inflict on each other. It doesn't necessarily rely on you actively doing anything.

Fiery Emancipation telegraphs pretty loudly and you have to be the instigator, but the payoff if you get to 'do your thing' will be pretty insane. I'm definitely thinking of running it as I have a vision of Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder equipped with a Sword of War and Peace connecting with someone's face. Glorious.

Older20 - woops, misremembered Wound Reflection's cmc somehow!

Another note about using Wound Reflection as a political/pillowfort tool. I posted this in Discord earlier so I'll just copy/paste.

when i first started playing the deck i always thought wound reflection would fall into the category of cards "things that give opponents outsized impact if they direct their power elsewhere, incentivizing them to swing at my opponents instead of me" but i think like 60% of the time its actually "we're all fucked except for Queen Marchesa, someone get rid of it". tho, its not that high on the totem pole of things that need to get removed asap. but i dont think it incentivizes infighting as much as i originally thought it would when i first started playing this deck.

With that being said, wound reflection and fiery emancipation then serve much the same purpose in my mind: giving our wincons some insane reach to close out the game once we decide to go for the kill. They are not really "play it out and sit back" cards, they will both draw attention, both are "scary". It is true that wound reflection amplifies opponents attacks/damage, and emancipation does not, but in practice this does not matter most of the time.

Unless you are playing in a meta that does not play interaction. Then sure, if no one is going to remove your wound reflection or care about it, things will play out differently. But playing wound reflection usually telegraphs a similar message of "I am about to do something big" in other player's minds, regardless of our actual intent for using the card (like I said, it was originally meant to be more political/pillowfort-y)

Ibcan understand your statement alexjustdoit but then i think you should use Furnace of Rath instead. Yes it could do you damage but we have lot of way to prevent them, it affect opponents that deals damages to each others and it cost 2 less.

New interesting card: Spoiled on Magic c'est Chic : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN9K35Z0170

Soubira, Caravaneer of the Tulzidi 2R

Legendary creature : Human and Shaman

Haste

1 : Another creature with power 2 or less can't be blocked this turn

1R, tap, discard your hand : Until end of turn, whenever a creature with power 2 or less you control deals combat damage to a player, draw a card

Could be used to get back monarch, to help opponents get through and synergize with Master of Cruelties and Grenzo, Havoc Raiser

Eloniel - I've definitely thought about Furnace of Rath (I play it in K&T in lieu of Wound Reflection). But I still hold out hope for being able to play wound reflection a turn cycle or two early instead of always dropping it right before a kill. I dunno, its real hit or miss, depends on the game and I kind of have to decide whether its safe on a per-game basis. I am definitely having to lean more group slug in my mid/high power meta tho, as it seems to me that a higher power meta consists more of players aiming to outright win via insurmountable advantage or combo rather than "kill players individually until I'm the only one left" which makes the 1v1 near impossible to get to in many games, as someone just wins before anyone is knocked out, so Furnace of Rath might work pretty well for me right now given that a large chunk of my wins come from just killing the whole table at once. I am running less fogs these days as in the meta I just described, they can be very dead cards, so I might have trouble staying alive however.

Eloniel

Soubria seems like an excellent include! Great synergies as you've listed (particularly relevant for me since I run Master of Cruelites as a win con) but can also refill your hand in a pinch. I think it's definitely worth testing.

alexjustdoit Those are some fair points re Wound Reflection. My list runs a lot of goad mechanics and other spells such as Duelist's Heritage which encourage my opponents to swing at each other. So in my build I think Wound Reflection works a bit better than in others.

I also think that if you run enough cheap threats that your opponents will likely be using a lot of their removal early game, leaving the door ajar for your heavy duty stuff a little later in the game. For instance; I never play Sunforger early unless I absolutely have to, as it is far more likely that my opponents will have removal ready when they have a full hand and haven't removed anything else yet. Its a 3 mana spell but it's also one of my most consistent avenues to a win, so I can't afford to have it exiled or destroyed the moment I play it.

Older20

Agreed on the timing around playing Sunforger. The meta I play in is unlikely to use removal on anything that is not very threatening, and my cheap early threats are by definition unthreatening, so usually removal comes out once people are actually making moves, myself included. I try to bait it out, but they're usually smart enough for that. For example, no one is countering my Gifted Aetherborn or removing my Weathered Wayfarer haha, but they definitely will hold onto it for a Sunforger or Gisela.

Low hand sizes and some removal already being burned definitely helps threats stick later on. So does Volrath's Stronghold which has been doing work for me lately, I think I will add it to the permanent list. For example in my most recent game, Gisela kept getting removed, and I recasted her nearly every turn all while swinging with Serra Ascendant.

Would you mind giving me some more details on the decision to include Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder, I traded for one a few months back but have never slotted him into my version of the deck, outside of enabling one shots with Dark Depths and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight he doesn't seem to do much for the deck to me, hoping you can shed light on my ignorance.

Thanks

Openil

He’s great for the life gain if nothing else. As I’ve upgraded my deck from the budget version it used to be, I’ve found how clutch those hits of life gain are to our eventual survival. Yes, he’s great with Marit Lage and Gisela, but honestly who is blocking a double strike deathtoucher with lifelink? The Queen will get some damage through and give us some life with him. He’s not a bad attacker on his own either.

Thanks for that, I think I, along with most commander players, undervalued the life gain.

Have you ever considered Brought Back? It is sunforgable if key pieces get removed like Wound Reflection or Solemnity, can get you back Sunforger if it is already in hand, and can be a rampant growth with some early fetches like Prismatic Vista. Would love to get your input!

A new interesting card: Nine Lives Enchantment 1WW Rare Hexproof If a source would deal damage to you, prevent that damage and put an incarnation counter on Nine Lives. When there are nine or more incarnation counters on Nine Lives, exile it. When Nine Lives leaves the battlefield, you lose the game.

https://i0.wp.com/mtgazone.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/16absznmy2551.png

Eloniel - my only issue with Nine Lives is if someone wipes the board of permanents, or otherwise removes it without targetting it / causes you to sac it, you are absolutely hosed. And for what? We already have 3 (4 kinda) pieces that combine in any pair to keep you from dying to damage.

The risk seems very, very high.

Openil - someone mentioned that card a while back, and I though about it a little, but you make some very good points.

I have played Replenish in the past which fills a similar role, but Brought Back may be a bit better for us. Waiting to crack your fetchlands until T2, then casting Brought Back is pretty spicy as well.

I think I will try it out, thanks for the suggestion.

What's your thoughts on Angelic Ascension the additional mana over Swords to Plowshares is big but it also hits planeswalkers and is still able to be gotten with Sunforger. the flyer may be awkward with monarch but i feel like most of the time giving your opponent a 4/4 flyer is better than giving them a land. It's also not impossible to use it on a late game Serra Ascendant that has lost it's buff as a rattlesnake blocker seems at least decent.

I think Angelic Ascension is a pass for me. I can just see someone getting spiteful with that 4/4 and us having to find a way to deal with it. I would run Swords or Path over this. If you're looking for another of this type of effect Condemn isn't too bad. In a different vein I like Generous Gift - you still give them a creature but it has no evasion which makes it much easier to manage and Gift hits anything. With out deathtouchers they are more like't ti send the elephant elsewhere which is good news of us.

Openil - if you need more removal that can hit planeswalkers, Generous Gift, Anguished Unmaking, and Chaos Warp are all better than Angelic Ascension. Beyond that you could try Despark which hits a lot of planeswalkers that get run in EDH. Keep in mind Boros Charm can also hit planeswalkers for 4, and we can also push thru some damage with evasive creatures directed at planeswalkers.

Seabody & alexjustdoit thanks for sharing your thoughts, much appreciate, I was not familiar with Condemn to be honest, in some ways that even seems better than swords.

I wasn't especially hot on Angelic Ascension but have seen some hype for it and was keen to get your inputs. Thank you again.

Despark has been a house for me. In games where I get a Sunforger, Mistveil Plains combo going it's often one of the spells I'll loop.

I'm a big fan of Despark, I run it over Utter End and would consider cutting Anguished Unmaking before it.

Seabody I've looked through your version of the deck, it's a bit closer in value to mine, although i don't own any fetch lands yet, out of curiosity what are you using Repercussion to achieve? I own one but have never considered it for this deck.

Openil - combos & synergies section, under Playing this Deck