- 4x Arbor Elf
- 3x Courser of Kruphix
- 4x Eidolon of Blossoms
- 4x Elvish Visionary
- 2x Mistcutter Hydra
- 2x Nylea, God of the Hunt
- 3x Primalcrux
- 1x Xenagos, God of Revels
- 2x Beast Within
- 2x Creeping Corrosion
- 2x Damping Matrix
- 3x Defense Grid
- 3x Primal Command
- 2x Thrun, the Last Troll
unsung31...Leatherback Baloth is. A great card for mono green devotion. I will certainly test it out over Wistful Selkie and Carven Caryatid . My only concern would be not having enough card draw in the deck; but a 4/5 may be worth it :). Thank you for the suggestion!
January 20, 2014 2:09 a.m.
January 20, 2014 8:42 a.m.
Thanks Hawx91! We have seen many variants of Michael Jacob's Genisis Wave wave devotion deck (with a few cards changed here or there) with the win-con being Genisis Wave into a Craterhoof Behemoth . These decks also include Burning-Tree Emissary (which I think you meant) as a "free devotion upgrade" and Primeval Titan as their way of tutoring for Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx . These are great decks! I didn't build such a deck for several reasons:
The first is that it is already built. It would be difficult to build my own version of this deck as a majority of the cards are needed for the combo. ( Genesis Wave / Craterhoof Behemoth ). Most run a copy of Primal Command and thus use Eternal Witness (as of course they should given their interaction). There is little room for innovation as changing too much can ruin the combo's that are set up .
I found the deck had several "dead draws". Often times you would draw a late-game Burning-Tree Emissary that did nothing, or a ramp- card (as they have even more than my deck if you can believe it), or you'd have a Genesis Wave you could only cast for 3 against control with no other cards in hand. Early Eternal Witness 's were. 2/1 bears that could only grab a mana dork assuming one was killed. Th deck is highly depend and on the sequencing of the cards.
These decks seem to "Win Big" and lose big. They operate essentially as a combo deck. When the Wave goes off and hits a Craterhoof, you win...if this doesn't happen relatively early; you struggle. I wanted to offer a version that could still be explosive at times; but also had a little more consistency and resiliency.
I am not trying to imply that our deck is "better" than the Genesis Wave
versions. We simply tried to change some items we did not care for and build a different take on the devotion mechanic that could still be viable while more in line with the Playstyle we prefer. This deck can still "go off"; but is a more stable, less dynamic version.
Thank you for you suggestions! Any one of these cards could be great in the deck; and we'll keep testing to make sure whether they should be added.
January 20, 2014 10:58 a.m.
MrBradDanger- Here's a pretty good example of a ramp/beater deck. Notice that all the 1,2, and 3 drops bring them cards or mana to keep the engine turning.
TL;DR on the deck explanation, but I've played ramp and really like your list. As for it's Modern worthiness, no idea; I play casual, and it would do the trick there. Thanks for posting up!
January 20, 2014 12:38 p.m.
I don't understand why Misty Rainforest is in this deck. I don't see any blue that needs mana fixing, my only guess is that you want to pay one life to shuffle your library.
January 20, 2014 2:04 p.m.
Coyote....thanks for letting me know about this! Misty Rainforest was in the deck in its prior "iteration" due to the fact that we had one Dryad Arbor in the deck to add value to an Overrun Garruk Wildspeaker , find a creature if you have a ton of mana and Nylea, God of the Hunt and no other creatures (as it can give you someone to pump with trample). While these are "bad/worst case scenarios; it never hurts to think about those situations as well. When I removed the blue from the deck (removed Coiling Oracle , etc.). I accidentally removed the Dryad Arbor as well. I have added it back. Thanks for your help! I probably wouldn't have caught that for days :)
January 20, 2014 2:16 p.m.
camthecoyote....Dryad Arbor added back. Misty Rainforest 's do help thin the deck; but this is so minimal that you are right that they shouldn't be added for the thinning benefit alone. Thank you for your help!
January 20, 2014 2:20 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo No prob, I'm really liking this deck, I might just try it out.
January 20, 2014 2:29 p.m.
I personally like Boggart Ram-Gang for anything mono-green. Might be worth trying out.
January 20, 2014 5:34 p.m.
Nobilior...thank you for the suggestion. We love this card and actually have a G/R "Hasty Devotion" deck as we call it that runs four of these (it is a perfect fit in that deck). We are finishing it up now (sideboard, etc.) and will have it "published" over the next few days. You are absolutely right that it is a great devotion card. In this deck, however, we needed the card draw to keep the engine going. There are enough ramp cards that you can run out of cards quickly if your draw isn't perfect and if you don't have enough draw cards. They are much more of a "beater" than either Wistful Selkie or Carven Caryatid ; but we really needed the "when it comes into play, draw a card" effect that both carry. Great card, however, and great suggestion. It is a perfect devotion card for the majority of devotion decks (both green and red!).
January 20, 2014 6:08 p.m.
For those of you who suggested both Boggart Ram-Gang
as well as Leatherback Baloth
; we put together another devotion deck (this one is Red and Green) caled Grull Hasty Devotion. We think they fit better in a build that takes advantage of their strengths; but obviously both suggestions are great for devotion decks.
Grull Hasty Devotion exchanges consistency and resiliency for speed. May not hold up as well in "competitive play" as this one but is a really fun build that probably will generate better stories (although the comment of 81 damage on turn 6 by RedZebra is pretty tough to beat :)
Thanks by the way to RedZebra for putting the deck together, playing, and taking the time to provide results of such a cool match. It takes a great player to do such a thing; but I'm glad the deck can do it! As always, we'd love to hear what you think about either deck. Thanks again to all who have commented and +1'd!
January 20, 2014 7:13 p.m.
Looks great! Would you mind taking a look at my version, Alec_7 (i cant figure out how to link directly to my deck, it comes up with another) ? I'd appreciate it a lot, and maybe you can find something you overlooked.
January 20, 2014 8:18 p.m.
Alec_7...your deck Modern Green Devotion looks like a heck of a lot of fun! Literally all of my top favorite creatures of all time are in there. My deck can't fit all of them because I have to have the ramp (Utopia Sprawl
, Fertile Ground
, etc.) as well as the draw (Carven Caryatid
, Elvish Visionary
, Wistful Selkie
) cards to maintain the "engine" of the deck. Without them, I could easily either draw into too many cards I couldn't pay for quickly enough or simply run out of cards after laying down my first hand quickly (and would be in trouble if my opponent interacts with it).
There are several cards I like in your deck (and the idea is definitely a good one); and while it's a slightly different route than mine, it is just as good (if not better :). I especially think Khalni Hydra is strong in your deck given its numerous creatures. Based on my quick look at the deck, my only addition would be four Dryad Arbor (as they reduce Khalni Hydra 's costs AND can tap...effectively taping for two-green each for Khalni Hydra ).
I'd focus most on Khalni Hydra
, and Primal Surge
as your win-cons (as you use so many rampers that you can get to 9 easy via multiple lines and with the sheer amount of creatures your Primal Surge
's would be awesome! I love the idea of Reverent Hunter
being in a deck with Khalni Hydra
as well (they compliment each other well). It would make for some amazing games!
My decks typically focus on 3-4 win-cons and developing multiple lines to get to them; so just based on the way I build, I would reduce the overall number of "big boys" (but please understand this is just a preference and does not make either deck "wrong" or "right" in any way). If your asking for my suggestions, I would run:
4x Arbor Elf 4x Voyaging Satyr 2x Leatherback Baloth 3x Karametra's Acolyte 4x Strangleroot Geist 4x Khalni Hydra 4x Primalcrux 2x Reverent Hunter 4x Burning-Tree Emissary 3x Primal Surge 3x Garruk, Caller of Beasts 1x Akroma's Memorial Love this idea4x Dryad Arbor - My only addition to the deck4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx 14x Forest
As you can see, not a ton of changes (literally only a few cards). Just removal of some of your 1 and 2 of's, and an additional Garruk, Caller of Beasts
and Primal Surge
. I think with Garruk, Caller of Beasts
being your main "draw engine" (and a great one at that in your creature-heavy deck) that it's important you draw him often (seeing as how you'll get to six mana super fast!) I added two more Primal Surge
's to the deck; as you can get there so quick and basically it is a "cast me and I win the game" card in your deck. You just generate so much mana that you could surge by turn 3 or 4 and a late game surge when your board state is only a few small guys and a a Karametra's Acolyte
could be game-changing.
All this being said; I wouldn't change much at all...and you know better than me given the fact that you've tested the deck...and I can promise you I'll be stealing some of your ideas in testing :) I love the Akroma's Memorial idea! I may have to use it...
I wish I could run Khalni Hydra
and Dryad Arbor
in my deck too (but a lot of my ramp comes from enchantments given the use of Garruk Wildspeaker
where your's comes from creatures...making Khalni Hydra
a much quicker cast).
I appreciate you pointing your deck out to me; as there are some definite cards in there that I love and may end up adding to this deck. We green mages have to stick together :) Modern Green Devotion is a great deck by Alec_7...I gave it a plus one and anyone reading this should do the same! :)
January 20, 2014 9:57 p.m.
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! :) I like Dryad Arbor, but it has summoning sickness and cant tap first turn, so I'll have to experiment with them. The only thing I'm not going to try is 3x Primal surge, as they get in each others way. Once, when I used to run 2, I got a 10 mana Elvish Mystic :(. I'd also like to keep Regal Force , he gets lots of cards, including non-creature cards Garruk wont. Also, Karametra's Acolyte is a major mana producer, I'd like to keep four. I will take out Nylea, God of the Hunt Omnath, Locus of Mana , and Polukranos, World Eater for another Garruk, Caller of Beasts , Strangleroot Geist , Voyaging Satyr , and Burning-Tree Emissary . Actually, thinking about all these 2-drops, and the fact that I only have 4 1-drops, Dryad Arbor will probably stay in. Thank you!
January 20, 2014 10:28 p.m.
No problem Alec_7...I see your point about the Primal Surge ...you are absolutely right...that would be a kick in the face :) Regal Force is a good keep (as card draw is a must) so this is a great call....The summoning sickness does hurt the Dryad Arbor 's I agree. I just like them with Khalni Hydra ...you could of course run 2 or 3 instead of a playset too. Everything else you've said sounds perfect. You have much better knowledge of the deck and playing it than I do; so I am certain your comments are right. I hoped I helped a little though :) I need to try out Karametra's Acolyte ...I haven't tested with her much and it seems from both what you have said and what I see that it may be better than Sylvan Scrying (as it acts as a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx anyways! Two heads are always better than one :) Thank you!
January 20, 2014 10:44 p.m.
This deck is absolutely insane. I made a 16/16 Mistcutter on turn 4. Definite +1 from me.
January 20, 2014 11:14 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo: Love the changes to my deck! However, now I'm getting everything out, and running out of gas. I get more then enough mana, so I'm considering taking out a land or two and adding another Regal Force . Other than that, it runs a lot more consistently now. Thanks a ton for your help!
January 20, 2014 11:31 p.m.
Alec_7...that is a great idea! I ended up going down to 20 total lands; so I can see that. Running of out gas is a common issue for green decks and is tough to fix. That is why I have so many "draw a card" creatures in mine. The way your deck works; your are 110% correct that another Regal Force
would be great. That way, you are always drawing a bunch of cards right before you may run out (between your Regal Force
and Garruk, Caller of Beasts
I'm so glad to hear it's improving! Nothing is more fun that testing and seeing the deck make positive leaps! Anyone that wants to see the deck...it is Modern Green Devotion and it is another take on the devotion mechanic that is really good.
January 20, 2014 11:51 p.m.
Uhh... you linked to someone else's deck with the same name as mine. I'm not sure how to get it to link to mine instead, so if you want to see it, click on my name: Alec_7
January 21, 2014 12:09 a.m.
Alec_7...If you can, do me a favor and change the name to something like "Green Devotion Creature Beat-down" or anything you'd like. I'll go through and change all the links so that it matches your deck.
January 21, 2014 12:52 a.m.
please show your hands and Turn by Turn plays of huge dudes on T3-4. trying to see it
January 21, 2014 4:44 a.m.
I should have referenced you, Dreno33 in the answer to your question above.
I apologize if it is difficult to read. I had it more spaced out; but it wouldn't go though (I kept receiving an error screen). If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask. I hope this helps!
January 21, 2014 12:28 p.m.
January 21, 2014 1:07 p.m.
perfect, thank you.
you should add that to your description. those are always interesting to look at.
January 21, 2014 1:31 p.m.
Thanks Dreno33...I will indeed add it to the description...it does make it a lot easier to see (rather than just an assortment of cards that may seem a little less powerful than others :) I'll make sure it's added now.
January 21, 2014 2:10 p.m.
vishnarg...I discussed Leatherback Baloth
with unsung31 above. I really need my three-drops to draw a card (as I can run out easily if not). Regal Force
is a great card that draws quite a bit; however I need the card draw to be early...Alec_7 has a deck that utilizes Regal Force
and Garruk, Caller of Beasts
...it may be better to have larger draw cards; however I need both (a) smaller creatures to build up devotion, and (b) early draw...but I may be better off with one or more larger draw cards like Regal Force
. Thank you!
is a great card in general...I have an Elf Devotion deck that runs a bunch of elves, Nissa Revane
, and Elvish Archdruid
and Genesis Wave
...It a fun deck and Elvish Archdruid
is the lynchpin to that deck...In this deck, however, there aren't enough elves for him to work a consistent enough time to be viable...I will list the elf deck soon and make a link and make sure to note your suggestion as Elvish Archdruid
as one of the strongest portions of the deck.. . Thank you for your suggestions and help!
January 21, 2014 2:38 p.m.
Dreno33...Sample Gold-Fish has been added to description...Thank you for letting me know about that. It does go a long way to helping anyone understand the power of the deck. I really appreciate the suggestion.
January 21, 2014 5:47 p.m.
vishnarg...I am testing with Regal Force now and will make sure it at minimum is in "Maybeboard" and may actually make it into the deck...drawing cards is important to this deck; so Regal Force could be a great addition. The deck has a delicate balance, however, to ensure smooth curving and drawing; so I'm hoping Regal Force fits right in without any issues at all! I can't thank you enough for your suggestions!
January 21, 2014 5:51 p.m.
No Khalni Hydra? It adds 8G which would be awesome and literally costs 0 once a couple mana buddies are played
January 21, 2014 5:53 p.m.
CookieDinosaur....I tried to explain this a little bit above; but you are right that Khalni Hydra is one of the best devotion cards there is. My Elf-Devotion deck runs a full play set if them! I'll post it soon (once I've got the sideboard down).
To our surprise, however, in testing Primalcrux seemed to out perform Khalni Hydra a majority of the time. While Khalni Hydra can be cast for less; they both are cast on turn 3 on average. While by that point Khalni Hydra typically only cost 5-mana, the one mana difference usually did not have a significant effect on the game...
Where Primalcrux really took the lead was in the power-level differences. On average; Primalcrux is a 12/12 when cast in the early turns. He continues to grow from there. In the "gold-fishing" example above Primalcrux was a 22/22 Trampler. In the same scenario Khalni Hydra would remain an 8/8. This extra 14/14 can be the difference in winning the game. Khalni Hydra , however, would have generated 4 more mana for the Mistcutter Hydra ; so the margin is not as large; but 10 is still a good enough amount to put him over.
There are so many great cards/choices in green devotion that you can't stuff em all in....Between Primeval Titan , Khalni Hydra , Regal Force , Garruk, Caller of Beasts , and even Genesis Wave ; there are many choices that could just as easily be in this deck...this is great though because it allows you to make multiple devotion decks :). I will continue to test Khalni Hydra however, because you're right....it's that good :). There is always room for improvement. Thanks for your suggestion!
January 21, 2014 8:05 p.m.
RedSoxFanKy...I do love Abundant Growth in 3+ color decks. It almost is free mana fixing! I don't think it adds an additional mana on top of the mana the land produces, however...I think it only allows you to tap the land for any color (i.e. the Forest could produce any color mana; but only one mana). Please let me know if I am wrong; and I will be switching these out immediately! Thank you so much for your suggestion as well. I appreciate any help I can get.
January 21, 2014 9:22 p.m.
IMO Karametra's Acolyte is way too slow it just serves as one mana and doesnt do much to your devotion. Other than that great Deck :)
January 21, 2014 9:59 p.m.
You're correct that Abundant Growth does not ramp, it only fixes (and cantrips).
January 21, 2014 10 p.m.
Cyclophammer...I agree with you. Karametra's Acolyte was added as a 1 of for testing...I went under the thinking that "do I really need Sylvan Scrying for a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx if I can play a creature that functions as one and adds to my devotion?"
Often times she taps for plenty of mana, but you are 100% right that at a 4-drop it is just too slow...I can have her at four or Nylea, God of the Hunt !!! Ha. Thank you commenting on this! Karametra's Acolyte has been removed for another copy of Sylvan Scrying ....Although it may function like a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx , it is no Nykthos :) Thank you for your help...there's always room for improvement! I greatly appreciate it.
January 21, 2014 10:12 p.m.
January 22, 2014 12:15 a.m.
This is a bit of an outlier, but what do you think about Primordial Sage or Soul of the Harvest ? It's probably a lot of a nerf on Regal Force but they're both cheap and can be mini-Glimpse of Nature if you're already generating 6-20 mana and don't have a mana sink! Theoretically, if you kept hitting creatures and Garruk Wildspeaker , you could go through the vast majority of your deck in one to two turns, while still being able to kick your opponents teeth in.
January 22, 2014 12:37 a.m.
Twanicus...I love your idea....with those two and Strangleroot Geist ...you have just about the most resilient and tough to kill devotion creatures in the workd! Once Kalonian Hydra is in it would be game over (especially if you could fit in Lightning Greaves or Xenagos, God of Revels , or some other card that gives it haste)!
That being said; the combo of those two is unreal...I instantly thought of those two and Corpsejack Menace in another ramp deck that would put out some ridiculously huge Kalonian Hydra by turn 4 :). Great ideas and suggestions!
January 22, 2014 1:56 a.m.
commodorecanary...these are great cards for the tempo of this deck. You'd be drawing cards off of all your card-drawers :). I like Soul of the Harvest quite a bit (always had a thing for Elementals :). And you could most certainly go on a draw-fest by turn 3 or 4! Overrun a Garruk Wildspeaker and it's over! I will definitely test with these (over Nylea to start) and see how it plays out. Thanks for taking the time to help make thus deck the best it can be!
January 22, 2014 2:17 a.m.
I think this recent update to the deck is by far my favorite. You've really broken it down to three simple parts: Draw, Ramp/Devotion, and Wincons. I absolutely love the perfect balance you have achieved. I would +1 again if I could. lol
January 22, 2014 2:04 p.m.
Thank Nobilior! I agree that it has finally got to the balance needed. It went through a lot of changes and a lot of testing to get here :). I couldn't have done it without the TappedOut community. I'm a huge fan of putting an idea on and having the many great minds on here help "perfect" it. There's a lot of much smarter people on here than me!
I really do appreciate the compliment. It's truly my favorite deck; so its kinda my baby that I'm proud of :).
January 22, 2014 2:36 p.m.
Anytime! I actually plan on netdecking this and use it at my local store because by turn 4 it aaalllwwwaaayyysss goes off. Also, I was looking at some good Green X cards and I stumbled upon Enshrined Memories and Weird Harvest . I was going to do some testing on my own to see if either was worth a spot. Just some more options for you!
January 23, 2014 6:10 p.m.
Very nice deck! My only suggestion: sideboard a few cards with flying or reach.
January 23, 2014 6:45 p.m.
Amarin1492...you are exactly right...I replaced Tajuru Preserver with Arbor Colossus ...he is strong in a devotion deck and is great against flyers...this was the first thought that came to my mind...but please do let me know if you have any suggestions or think there may be better options. Thank you so much for helping!
January 23, 2014 7:18 p.m.
Nobilior...I love the idea behind Enshrined Memories ...it is a great way to refill your hand if you run into a deck that cuts you down...I'm going to keep testing to see what (if anything) can be cut for it; because it can be a great way to fight off the biggest issue with ramp decks (running out of cards)...thanks for the great idea (I would probably have never found it :)
Please do let me know how the deck does at your local store! I'd love to here how it performs in other environments. Its always fun to see how it plays against certain decks. Good luck!!!!
January 23, 2014 7:23 p.m.
January 23, 2014 7:30 p.m.
Lead the Stampede is a better card in most cases..this is true. Most likely better in this deck as well. Often times this deck has well more than 6 mana; however if you are in the situation where you need to refill your hand...you most likely will not have a ton of mana; so this most likely is better..
This is what I love about TappedOut! Someone finds an area where a deck may have trouble that could be helped...and another helps make it even better! Thanks to both Nobilior and vishnarg...I will test with Lead the Stampede to see if I get in the "low card" situation often enough to warrant its use regularly...if in those situations I often have well more mana than 6 (which is where Enshrined Memories begins to draw more cards) I will let you know..Can't thank you guys enough for continuing to help on this deck.
January 23, 2014 8:07 p.m.
January 23, 2014 10:46 p.m.
Midwest....you are 100% right! Great call for a great sideboard call. To be honest; Bramblecrush is most likely better than Mwonvuli Acid-Moss ....it's much more versatile and I don't need the extra Forest . Thank you! Always room for improvement :)
January 23, 2014 11:04 p.m.
January 23, 2014 11:31 p.m.
January 23, 2014 11:35 p.m.
January 23, 2014 11:47 p.m.
steve21...I did have Summoner's Pact in this deck before...and to be honest it most likely is a good choice. In an effort to get down to the simplest balance of draw cards, ramp cards, and win-cons; I ended up with the current version of the deck. I do certainly need to test the deck with Summoner's Pact back in (as it does help smooth rough hands out). Thank you for the great suggestion! Most likely it is the right card to play.
January 23, 2014 11:51 p.m.
Yeah...I can attest to the fact that Summoner's Pact is a great card based on my testing with it before...out of curisoty; what do you guys (anyone really, but I'd love to hear steve21 and commodorecanary's ideas as well) think should be removed for the Summoner's Pact 's ? There are no "bad answers". I just want to see what people think and work though where to best place them. Thanks again guys.
January 24, 2014 12:05 a.m.
January 24, 2014 1:15 a.m.
Just out of curiosity, was this set up so that in the title image, with Nylea, God of the Hunt (the featured card), it appears as though the sliver of Blue in the Mana pie for the deck is the arrowhead of Nylea's bow? Cause if not, it is an hilarious coincidence. ;)
January 24, 2014 12:36 p.m.
TDoubleE....HAHA!!! I was wondering if anyone else would see that. It was not on purpose...I swear :) But I did see that, and thought (a) I can't remove the blue now and (b) I had to keep Nylea, God of the Hunt as the featured card....good eye! It was a coincidence, but a happy one.
January 24, 2014 1:47 p.m.
on your T4 scenario, you actually cast a 42/42 hydra, not a 43/43 like you currently have stated. 47 mana - 4 for rogue's passage - 1 for G in Hydra cost = 42 mana for "X"
just thought I'd clear that up. lol
January 24, 2014 2:26 p.m.
Thanks Dreno33! Hopefully 88 will still do it :). I do appreciate it though. The "mana math" starts to get a little crazy after turn 2...I keep a couple green 12-sided dies to always have my devotion count visible as well as a few with dies with green numbers (I'm a little OCD :) that shows how much mana I have floating in any one phase/step just to keep track of it all!
January 24, 2014 2:47 p.m.
It's got the blue due to Wistful Selkie , Coiling Oracle , and my U/G lands. I like it though, as TDoubleE said, it makes Nylea, God of the Hunt look like she has a big blue arrow at the top where picture and the color pie meet :). Just a funny coincidence; but fun nonetheless.
January 24, 2014 3:43 p.m.
January 24, 2014 4:57 p.m.
in other words, consistency is everything
January 24, 2014 5 p.m.
I personally love the "buddy lands"...in this case I need the breeding pools to help get my blue mana for an early Coiling Oracle and as Dreno33 stated; because Utopia Sprawl and Arbor Elf both require Forests to work. Dreno33 is absolutely right that it is simply a matter of consistency. The deck runs on consistency, but I do agree that there are many occasions in many decks that should have buddy lands over a few lands that deal them damage...unfortunately in this case I need them. Thank you for the suggestion!
January 24, 2014 6:37 p.m.
I playtested your deck against mine, Thursday Goblins. You seem to have too many non-basic lands. All that colorless mana in a devotion deck didn't work out too well. I ran your deck four times and the low mana caused too many problems.
January 24, 2014 7:03 p.m.
jasinatael...not sure how your games went...but I can honestly say I've almost never run into a problem with mana...The Rogue's Passage
can be removed if the base has become too greedy; however the remainder of the mana ALL produce green (save the Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
at a devotion of three or less) however I'm pretty certain you are not advocating taking those out :)
The only lands that produce colorless mana are the two Rogue's Passage
and the Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
assuming your devotion is 3 or less (which is rare)...both the Misty Rainforest
s and Breeding Pool
can instantly produce green mana (effectively run as Forest
s that do a little damage :)
I'd like to here what other people think that have played the deck. Have you run into any issue with mana? Do you believe the deck would improve with (a) the removal of the Rogue's Passage 's for Forest s and/or (b) the addition of an additional forest? The 2 Rogue's Passage are the only lands that can be removed for basic lands; so the only other option is adding lands in place of other cards (i.e. running 21+ lands).
I will make sure to continue testing with the deck and play close attention to see if I run into any issues with mana...however mana is typically one of the area's I've rarely into a problem with :) On the contrary; one concern was having too much at times and needing a "mana sink"....
Having said this, I do understand if the rogues passages are too greedy (and that is certainly something that could be switched)...I will pay special attention to this tonight during testing and take them out if need be. I will update the deck tonight if that is the case..As far as the remainder of the lands are concerned; they really can't change. You need Four Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and I'm not sure the deck really needs more than 20 lands...
I appreciate the suggestion, especially from someone who has played the deck! I'll make sure to take a look at your Goblins deck as well!
January 24, 2014 9 p.m.
jasinatael...I traded out the Rogue's Passage
's for Forest
for the time being (to test with)...Consistency is important to this deck...and if this does make the deck more consistent to do so (even if it is only one game out of 20) than it's worth it!
There really is no other colorless mana beyond those as the Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx nearly always taps for green mana...and all of the other lands already tap for green. I'll keep testing to see if any additional lands are needed' however I've tested quite a bit and 20 seems pretty strong.
I'll have to build Thursday Goblins too and see what king of match up it is! Looks like a neat Goblin Deck. Thanks so much for your suggestions!
January 24, 2014 9:10 p.m.
January 24, 2014 9:18 p.m.
I just playtested the two decks online in separate windows, I didn't build yours at home. I suppose it could be just something strange with the program or several bad draws. However, with only 20 lands you really only draw one every third turn. Arbor Elf really doesn't seem to help much if you do not have a forest on the table. I also found that if I kept a two land hand I would miss a drop on turn four, which is terrible. I think maybe 22 lands would run better. I run 19 in Thursday Goblins and I think I may need to add one. Just some thoughts.
January 24, 2014 9:52 p.m.
Leatherback Baloth is a real gem. For a little aggro try Strangleroot Geist , or Rancor , and I'm a HUGE fan of Boggart Ram-Gang , and Predator Ooze these all provide some nice aggro and sustainability which i believe you are lacking
January 24, 2014 10:10 p.m.
Computer programs and MTGO are far and away the best ways to test...I will keep testing and see if I run into the same types of draws and make sure the mana-base has enough land to run smoothly. I really do appreciate the suggestion. I love Thursday Goblins by the way...Simple and quick :)
January 24, 2014 10:13 p.m.
I ran it again two more times and I didn't see any mana problems. It may have just been bad draws. +1 to you sir.
January 24, 2014 10:21 p.m.
Thanks marok....I actually discussed a few of these before so I won't go too far into it. All are great cards in a devotion deck and great suggestions...I had Strangleroot Geist in this deck for quite some time and ended up switching it for Coiling Oracle ...Strangleroot Geist is a really strong card that is very resilient and it is a card I definitely continue to consider.
I can't deny that all three of the creatures are great in devotion decks. They are strong at their mana cost and all provide 2-3 devotion. I do run these in some of my other devotion decks (Leatherback Baloth , Boggart Ram-Gang , and Strangleroot Geist are in my Grull Hasty Devotion deck.
This deck is somewhat different than many of the devotion decks that have arisen. It is meant to move rather quick and continue to refill itself. It plays a little bit more like a "combo deck" focusing almost solely on drawing cards and building massive devotion until it "goes off" (which is planned to be in the the first few turns). This, however, requires quite a bit of draw and ramping. For instance, if I were to take out Wistful Selkie for Leatherback Baloth and Elvish Visionary for Strangleroot Geist ; the deck may kind of "halt" in numerous hands or I may run out of cards quite quickly... This doesn't mean there is no room for improvement though and I will continue to test this to make sure I have the best balance of ramp and draw while at the same time utilizing the best creatures I can!
The power of the deck, however, lies in its ability to ramp and draw so quickly that it overwhelms the opponent. I will try out some of these cards, however, and see if the consistency can be maintained with some of the "bigger" and"tougher" 2 and 3 drops. Thanks for the suggestions! It is a great list of cards.
January 24, 2014 11:07 p.m.
Thanks jasinatael...It's great to here that it can work! It is helpful, however, to hear when it doesn't; and I think you were right that the Rogue's Passage may have been a little greedy :) It is something I definitely needed to look at and make sure of....every suggestion can only help make the deck stronger.
Also... +1 for Thursday Goblins as well...great deck!
January 24, 2014 11:10 p.m.
adventfaith...thank you for your suggestion! You're one if the first to suggest that card (and its a good devotion-centric card. ). I think Reverent Hunter is a really cool card that I think has a place in several kinds of devotion decks ( especially one with Nylea, God of the Hunt . ). I couldn't find a great place for him in this deck initially because I'd have to either remove Wistful Selkie at 3-drop; which plays a good role in both draw and devotion count...I could remove Carven Caryatid also (but again, the card draw is a big deal ). I will try it out though; because he does pair well with Nylea in many situations.
Thinking about Reverent Hunter always makes me think of how he compares to Primalcrux ... Primalcrux has same-type ability but it can grow after his first turn! That, and he already has trample. Reverent Hunter however; doesn't get smaller with the death of another creature and costs half as much! Pros and cons :). Primalcrux just does well because he also adds 6-devotion at the same time. Reverent Hunter kind of has "enter the battlefield Chroma" and stays that way. Great suggestion and neat card. I will test it ASAP. Thanks!
January 26, 2014 2:32 a.m.
I tend to find that Reverent Hunter works best in decks that care more about counters than devotion. Like a primarily green based Vorel of the Hull Clade deck as an off hand example. Because he enters based on your devotion it usually allows him to be large enough to trigger evolve etc. etc. His inability to grow larger in this deck (short of Nylea pump) really prohibits him from being as successful as you want him to be in Modern. When you're dealing with monsters such as the Eldrazi Titans and Kessig Ramp decks, he pales in comparison.
He can still be a solid card and playtesting never hurt though.
January 26, 2014 10:33 a.m.
Courser of Kruphix in place of Carven Caryatid ? With all of the card drawing engines you could always make sure you are drawing gas. That is if your opponent knowing what is in your hand and/or what is to come not being a big deal to you. You can always side them out against control decks though.
January 26, 2014 9:47 p.m.
January 27, 2014 11:44 p.m.
Grimgrinner...agreed 100%. Changing up board a little tonight and I will make sure this is added. The new board will be up in a few hours; and I can't see any reason why this shouldn't be in it Thank you!
January 27, 2014 11:52 p.m.
in modern, is there much "gods" or the new leg. enchantments being played or no? if yes, then add a few "exile enchantment" spells in SB. if not, disregard this.
January 28, 2014 12:01 a.m.
Dreno33...they aren't yet, but it's only a matter of time given some of their power levels. Puphoros is in a Norin the Wary deck that is becoming popular , Nylea will continue to grow I think, Thassa is in many Merfolk builds, and if Xenagod performs as well as he looks like he may; he may hit modern too. You are absolutely right. I should switch out the Nature's Claim 's for a card that exiles artifacts or enchantments or Unravel the Aether . That is a great call. Thank you!
is most likely better. While it costs one more; I gt 2-devotion and a body (with deathtouch) that can help later. While it doesn't deal with plainswalkers (Karn in Tron, etc.) it may still be a better bet).
Thank you both for the great suggestions!
January 28, 2014 12:47 a.m.
During playtesting, I somehow managed a t3 Garruk Wildspeaker , who untapped Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx , put out Nylea, God of the Hunt with extra mana. T5 Primalcrux . after play primalcrux, my devotion to green was something like 12.
pay 2 to tap nykthos for 12 mana
untap an enchanted forest and nykthos using garruk
cast Mistcutter Hydra for 23
Primalcux swings in for 13 trample, hydra swings 23, nylea swings 6, 1 from arbor elf for shits and giggles.
and I'm probably not even playing it to the fullest potential here. wow.
January 28, 2014 12:55 a.m.
I like a lot of the changes, but why did you take out Omnath, Locus of Mana in the previous version of your deck he was insanely powerful with Nylea, God of the Hunt and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx . Keep on making this thing awesome!
January 28, 2014 1:42 a.m.
Grimgrinner...that is AWESOME! I love seeing examples like that...and I'm sure you played it perfectly!
I wasn't going to put too many examples on here; but I got so excited when I read Grimgrinner's story that I have to share a story from tonight....
I played a match this evening against RWU control where I was down to 1 life. I had:
and 1 Elvish Visionary in hand.
He had 15 life and :
1 Cards in Hand - 5 untapped lands and several tapped
My turn went as follows:
- Drew Garruk, Primal Hunter
- Played Garruk by tapping four forests
- Tapped remaining forest and enchanted forest for 4 mana.
- Cast Elvish Visionary with two
- Drew Wistful Selkie
- Used other two floating mana to trigger Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
for a total of 7-mana.
- Cast Wistful Selkie , (Floating remaining 4 mana)
- Drew Mistcutter Hydra
- Used Garruk to untap Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Enchanted Forest10, Used two of floating mana to trigger Nykthos again (this time for 10 mana)...still floating 2 for a total of 12 mana.
- Tapped Enchanted Forest for 3 more mana (15 total)
- Used Arbor Elf on board to untap Enchanted Forest for an additional 3 mana. (18 total).
I cast the Mistcutter Hydra as a 17/17 haste, that couldn't be countered and had protection from both Snapcaster Mage 's...to which the control player said, "dude, that is crazy." and we both laughed...Magic can be crazy!
By far this was the best "come from behind" victory I have had with the deck...control match ups can be tough...so needless to say I was excited to see that it could "pull through" in such a match up.
We've got a lot of both public and private messages where people have told us how well they've done with the deck, fun turns like the above (and the one Grimgrinner has provided), and many (such as Nobilior) have said they are going to build the deck for their next tournament(s).
This is the exact reason we love posting decks on TappedOut. The community helps make the deck its best, and then everyone gets to enjoy it and tell great stories!
January 28, 2014 2:41 a.m.
Having said this, I've still struggled to make a competitive deck with Omnath in it for Modern.
Omnath, Locus of Mana in this deck can be extremely good, and can be extremely bad. He kind of throws off the sequencing of this deck. Sometimes he can just be too slow. He is a three-drop that doesn't draw cards. This deck really revolves around the fact that all of the mana basically gets used up each turn. Hopefully you can keep drawing cards, untapping lands, building up devotion, and casting things...
Having said this, storing mana no doubt can be helpful in many situations (even in this deck). I will test the deck removing the Aspect of Hydra 's for 2 Omnath, Locus of Mana and see if that is superior.
Aspect of Hydra has been a great card in many games (as often times they may block an active Nylea, God of the Hunt thinking she is the threat and I instantly pump up an attacking Wistful Selkie with +7/+7 or something crazy and they get hit with 9, etc. Aspect of Hydra can steal games. Omnath, Locus of Mana , however, may have interactions in this build that I haven't thought of (and testing is the best way to go about bringing them to light!)
I will let you know how it goes; and hopefully we can get Omnath in a deck!
As an aside, even if he doesn't work in this deck; I am 90% of the way done with an Omnath Devotion deck built entirely around maximizing Omnath (and a few others) using cards such as Bear Umbra , and Genesis Wave . Because Omnath, Locus of Mana acts as a storage warehouse for mana; he actually pairs amazingly well with Nylea, God of the Hunt . He keeps getting bigger as she gives him trample. Some of the mana can be sunk into her ability if they do not block a different creature...it leaves the opponent with a lot to think about...I won't go on too long about that deck (as it is a different deck all together) but I promise I won't give up on Omnath, Locus of Mana even if he doesn't work here :)
January 28, 2014 3:24 a.m.
:D Yeah I got mentioned! ;) I have to thank you a million for posting this again. I've always wanted to build a mono-green modern deck ever since Wizards published this article. I tried over and over again making some really fast green and green/red decks that would just get blown out if the opponent packed tons of removal. What all my builds lacked was consistency. I would never had considered cards such as Elvish Visionary before due to their simple functions that get overlooked. Needless to say, I enjoyed watching the deck evolve as people gave more input and how it has achieved a seemingly perfect balance. Just wanted to say thanks again for sharing this with the community!
January 28, 2014 3:06 p.m.
Nobilior...that is an awesome article! I hadn't seen that before, but h is absolutely correct that Primalcrux can be amazing in a green-centric build. His deck alone could probably be sleeved up with the addition of Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and do well...what would you expect from a Pro like him though?
There actually is a deck similar to mine made by Midwest called The Green Book that adds several of these creatures (Deus of Calamity , Cloudthresher , etc.) and is great. I have provided a few small suggestions for him; but its pretty darn good deck!
You are exactly right...this deck has gone through a TON of changes with the help of the community and with days and days of testing :) It started as G/R with Kessig Wolf Run and slowly moved into mono-green, then into blue as I found that it needed even more "card draw" creatures....The deck wouldn't be what it is without the aid of the TappedOut community (in no small part to you Nobilior).
January 28, 2014 3:58 p.m.
First round of sideboard updates made :) Still working on it.
January 28, 2014 4:16 p.m.
And if you're working on the sideboard right now, this is what I'm going to use at my LGS.
2x Beast Within
2x Ground Seal
Here is my reasoning for the new cards.
The utility of this is insane. This can be an answer for anything but I mostly threw it in there as an option for some creature removal (since the deck doesn't have any). Furthermore, with as big as your creatures can get, the 3/3 beast is negligible.
January 28, 2014 5:56 p.m.
Nobilior...you are absolutely right about Beast Within . There is no reason not to use it...Here I'm trying to fit in all these cards that destroy lands, or artifacts, or enchantments; when Beast Within can remove them all! Definitely adding 4 of these in the sideboard.
January 28, 2014 6:27 p.m.
Sideboard has been cleaned up quite a bit. Still have to test to figure out where we can cut to aid in control match-ups (and if we need to do so); but for now this sideboard is great against every other top-tier deck (Twin, Affinity, Pod, Tron, etc.)
January 28, 2014 10:39 p.m.
You should probably check out Travis Woo's article on channelfireball.
January 29, 2014 2:14 p.m.
The wording does leave your lands (especially nkythos), as well as garruk open to some removal, but I still think saving creatures from board wipes would be very strong here. Ultimately it's your deck though, so go ahead and weigh the options.
January 29, 2014 3:41 p.m.
MAJOR, major props to you guys (and the other contributors) for this deck. It is incredibly well designed and fun to play. I'm playing a mono-green version (basically only dropping the Coiling Oracle and the fetches) and I love the fact that you're never out of a match. Aspect of Hydra is so insane in this build as you can come out of nowhere and win games with even a measly unblocked Elf.
Well done and the amount of work and testing that you all have put in deserves the top spot! +1!
January 29, 2014 3:42 p.m.
rstnme....Thanks for pointing me to that!
Twoo may have gone a little far taking complete credit for his deck. It's tough though, because so many decks are made daily that it's possible that two people can come up with similar decks and not even know it. I'm not saying he took my deck at all...I wouldn't care if he did! I'd be happy it got to more people :). This is FAR more like Michael Jacob's version (which has been around for a few months). The win-cons and style is extremely similiar to MJ's.... But even my version started much more like MJ's before changing. The Arbor Elf /Utopia Sprawl things is all his). That being said; it is a really neat take on green devotion! I haven't seen Twoo's 60 before; so in truth; it is his take on it. It just would be easy for more people to read without getting upset if he mentioned Jacob's deck (as it appears there is obvious inspiration). In the end though, we should just say "cool deck" as that is what it is :)
One sentence I found extremely interesting in the article was this:
"The main weakness of the deck is the all-ramp no fat-draw, but that is just an archetype weakness...."
Obviously given my list I tend to disagree :). You can have BOTH with the right balance. That was the issue I set out to fix when developing my version. I haven't tested Twoo's version; but given its similarity to Michael Jacob's version, I assume it runs into the same issues...
The deck has amazing interactions (Eternal Witness
is really cool) and can win by turn 3. Also, a lot of times this deck wins; it really wins! My version probably won't see many turn 3 wins; but it will nearly always be in a winning position by turn 4; and more importantly it can win a game you are well behind on. The main issues I had with the MJ-versions as I'll call them (only because that's where I personally saw it first....not because I have anything against Twoo) is you very quickly run out of cards and are kind of in "top deck mode". There were a lot of games where you have tons of mana and nothing to do with it. Twoo has a good amount of "bigger cards" in his build, so this may help. I love Kessig Wolf Run
in devotion decks (wish I could have it mine); so that's great to as a mana sink.
My main disagreement with Travis of course would be the power of drawing cards while building up devotion. I don't consider it "dirrdiling" to draw cards and contain to overwhelm the opponent while using up the ample mana you create; but he also plays against numerous types of decks. Of course everyone will have their own opinion
I don't want to pretend that I know any more than a professional or that my deck is "better". I've learned not to make "blanket claims" about individual cards or decks (as any card can be great in the right build and even the oddest of decks can end up being great when you sit down and play them). Travis Woo's deck is another great example of what can be done with green-devotion from a great brewer! I'm pretty darn sure we will see at least one green devotion deck at the next pro tour (although most likely more in line with Michael Jacob's/Travis Woo's build) given its availability and popularity.
That being said, I still think this build is just as competitive. Devotion is such a great mechanic for the very fact that there is so many different ways to take advantage of it!
January 29, 2014 4:12 p.m.
Taking out the blue and Coiling Oracle
can be done quite easily. Strangleroot Geist
was always great; so you could go that route. I've just always liked how Coiling Oracle
drew a card and ramped at the same time. The life from the fetches and shock lands and the resiliency of Strangleroot may more than make up for it though.
You are absolutely right about Aspect of Hydra
. It's is amazing in this deck! I updated last night that I have to find a way to get another one in here. It just steals so many games!
I really do appreciate the kind words as well! We're really proud of this deck; but as I've said before; the community really made it what it is.
January 29, 2014 4:25 p.m.
January 30, 2014 6:39 p.m.
Raybelfast.... Chord of Calling is a great idea. I will definitely try it in the spot Summoner's Pact is currently in...often times you have plenty of extra creatures to help with the convoke cost; and getting a Primalcrux directly into play can be huge for devotion. I like it! Will definitely be testing that!
February 1, 2014 3:44 a.m.
atlantis55555... The lieges are all great and you are right that they scream "devotion" deck. The pump up everyone else while adding three to their respective devotion...one thing I've learned building/testing this deck is there are literally dozens of amazing devotion decks that can be made....there's just so many great cards!
I'm not sure where they would fit in this deck; but possibly as a one-of to round out a board full of smaller guys (so they would attack and block for way more collectively). I certainly test it out! Thank you for the suggestion! Over 100 comments and we're still seeing new and interesting ideas :)
February 1, 2014 3:51 a.m.
You should try finding room for 1x Cloudstone Curio . You don't want anymore than 1 because it's a dead draw if you draw a second one. But it allows you to make a huge amount of mana (as this deck tends to do) and then play Coiling Oracle bouncing Elvish Visionary . Spend two more of your floating mana to play Elvish Visionary bouncing Coiling Oracle . It allows you to draw a lot of cards in a single turn. I figured it was worth throwing your way. I like it my deck and thought you may be interested in playtesting it.
February 1, 2014 8:13 p.m.
Midwest...this is a neat idea. I am certainly going to test it as it sounds like a perfect fit (especially as a one-of). Thanks for the suggestion! How's your deck coming along by the way? I'll take a look at it now...I know they won't let me +1 it again; but it's worth a shot :)
February 1, 2014 8:16 p.m.
It's going alright. The addition of Cloudstone Curio allows me to use my Mwonvuli Beast Tracker to bounce Elvish Visionary or Carven Caryatid so that I can draw the tutored creature the same turn that I tutor for it.
February 1, 2014 8:21 p.m.
That is a GREAT idea! In your deck, Cloudstone Curio is a must-have and a great addition. Most likely it may be a good addition to mine as well..
The Green Book is really coming together into something special all it's own. The synergy you've created with the cards is amazing (starting with the simple idea of Mwonvuli Beast Tracker
and growing from there)...It looks really good.
February 1, 2014 8:26 p.m.
I wonder how Cloudstone Curio would work with Burning-Tree Emissary ? That could make a fun little "mini-combo" with Elvish Visionary (where you play the BTE to bounce the visionary and us the two mana the BTE creates to play the Elvish Visionary for a "free" draw....such an interesting card...
February 1, 2014 8:30 p.m.
Thank you! I still like this deck more honestly but that's ok. My deck's working on it lol.
February 1, 2014 8:34 p.m.
Then I thought...with 10 mana and a Cloudstone Curio along with Elvish Visionary and Coiling Oracle you would still draw 5 cards! haha...both sound good to me :) Of course with Coiling Oracle you may end up with a few extra lands in play; but Burning-Tree Emissary counts as two points of devotion and with Red (instead of Blue)splashing you get the option to play Kessig Wolf Run ...ugh....so many decisions :)
Gotta test em both now! Thanks for the great suggestion. Opens up a world of opportunities if it works out.
February 1, 2014 8:45 p.m.
But you're welcome! Thought it may work out for you the same as it has for me. I'll keep you posted if I have anymore ideas.
February 1, 2014 8:53 p.m.
Yeah...that is a great idea...you may wanna throw in a Kessig Wolf Run or two if you start splashing red in yours; but you could just as easily keep it all green (if you didn't want to add either Stomping Ground or Rootbound Crag which would still work but would be far cheaper).
February 1, 2014 9:01 p.m.
+1 because green devotion ftw!
But seriously, I love this deck. Cheers to monogreen devotion in modern.
February 2, 2014 6:58 p.m.
Thanks v4v3! Green Devotion is officially my favorite idea in Magic ever! Being a green mage...there simply isn't anything better :)
Just to stay updated...I am currently testing Explore over Coiling Oracle ...it does take away a body and a devotion point, but you can play a land that is already in your hand; and you remove all the damage you may take from blue....we'll see!
Of course, also testing Cloudstone Curio as well.
February 2, 2014 8:59 p.m.
Are you finding that you take too much damage with the fetches and shocks for your blue source?
February 2, 2014 9:38 p.m.
No...not really...but if it can be avoided it may be worth it... I have, however, been playing with both Spellskite and Hurkyl's Recall in the side board; so its a little more than just the Coiling Oracle :)
I love the card Explore though; as the land doesn't have to come off the top (it can be in your hand). It is a card we use A LOT (it's in the RUG Superfiends deck and pretty much any deck we run with green)...
I just want to see if it consistently gets me a land more often and if the one devotion loss becomes a large problem...Most likely nothing will change, but it never hurts to try to improve :)
February 2, 2014 10:05 p.m.
No, not at all. You won't know until you test it. I'm super on the fence about Relic of Progenitus vs. Ground Seal for my sideboard. I prefer Relic myself. Ultimately they both draw a card and are great graveyard hate for 2 mana. Ground Seal gives me a devotion where Relic does not but relic actively exiles their graveyard and isn't prone to removal. I think it's really personal preference at that point but is there something I haven't considered? Why do you run Ground Seal over Relic?
February 2, 2014 10:52 p.m.
Literally the only reason for Ground Seal was the devotion. I'll try Relic of Progenitus . The devotion is nice, and we've found just as much artifact removal as enchantment removal; but you make great points! Exiling the graveyard can be important.
February 2, 2014 11:10 p.m.
Coiling Oracle , however, also provides a 1/1 body and +1 devotion; which can be hugely important when 1 makes the difference whether Nylea, God of the Hunt is active or not (so +1 to Coiling Oracle ).
The addition of Explore over Coiling Oracle would allow me to remove blue from the deck all together. I wouldn't do myself damage, Merfolk would have a much more difficult game against me, and I would never have an issue where I didn't have the mana to cast my 2-drop (it is extremely rare; however I have had a game or two where I didn't have the blue I needed to cast Coiling Oracle ). (+1 to Explore )
The removal of Blue narrows my sideboard options (although the only real cards are Hurkyl's Recall and Spellskite 's ability (which I can just take the two life for in the event I use it.) Creeping Corrosion is often better than Hurkyl's Recall anyways, so this is not a huge loss. This is a wash.
So this decision is EXTREMELY close. I'm not entirely certain one is better than the other...what do you guys think?
February 3, 2014 2:27 a.m.
The difference for me with relic and ground seal was if you play artifact removal, I can in response pay 1 mana to exile your graveyard. Whereas if you hit Ground Seal it just dies. I don't feel one's right over the other, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
As for Oracle vs. Explore I really like the Oracle here. I think it's really strong in your deck. The most convincing argument in my opinion for or against it were these two; for: Helps block zoo decks. Against: Breeding Pool helps Merfolk. At this point I feel Merfolk is both common and very strong. I think the biggest determining factor will be how prevalent do Zoo decks become? My guess? Very. In the end I think you should decide which deck is scarier for your deck specifically? Zoo or Merfolk? Then make the decision from there.
February 3, 2014 10:21 a.m.
Thanks Midwest! I swtiched out the Ground Seal s for Relic's.
I'm trying out Abundant Growth
as well (over Coiling Oracle
....same devotion, costs one less, still draws the card, and allows me to get Kessig Wolf Run
into the deck (as I can splash Red and between the Fertile Ground
, Abundant Growth
, and Stomping Ground
I should be able to get one red mana pretty easily).
Not sure that this is any better...but testing to make sure...Coiling Oracle is a great card so it will be tough for anything to beat it. The Merfolk issue and the damage taken for the fetch's/shock lands are just two strikes against it that I would like to avoid ( IF this is possible; but that is a big IF :)
With Zoo no doubtadly growing in popularity, it is hard to get rid of a body...I like the protection against Merfolk though...
Needless to say, we'll let everyone know how it goes! Let us know what you think!
February 3, 2014 4:35 p.m.
You currently have a 16 card sideboard. Just a head's up. I think that Merfolk are dangerous enough to warrant an alternative if you choose. As it stands you could also consider Strangleroot Geist . I know he used to be in the deck and you took him out. Pros: He's a better blocker that Oracle and you don't lose a creature for a spell. With Zoo coming back he may be a very solid pick up. Cons: He doesn't draw a card.
And let me know how your Kessig Wolf Run playtests go. I haven't been able to test it as much as I would like, yet. So, if you would please, keep me in the loop there.
February 3, 2014 5 p.m.
Oh, forgot to mention that Geist is also an additional devotion.
February 3, 2014 5:01 p.m.
hey CurdBrosBrewingCo, i'm going to attempt a casual version of your deck and will be working on it in detail, would love your input for it. I've made some good "casual" changes so far . . . you'll see.
February 3, 2014 5:13 p.m.
Midwest...Strangleroot Geist is an AMAZING card in green devotion decks..I actually just suggested this for Staff of Infinite Devotion (also a neat take on green devotion) as it's perfect in his build. I will definately try putting it back in as well. You are right that I used to run 4 of them in this deck because it is so resilient....with Zoo most likely becoming a thing now; that is something we have to plan for (it actually makes Carven Caryatid that much better :) as well. Thanks for the input.
I'm still not entirely sure Coiling Oracle
should go; but there is enough cons (between the damage adding blue, the Merfolk issue, etc. that it is worth testng). I will definitely let you know how Kessig Wolf Run
works out. It just seemed if I was going to add in Abundant Growth
that I may as well splash another color (with already having a few Fertile Ground
and Utopia Sprawl
and Kessig Wolf Run
seemed like a card that may win a game or two every once in a while...but then again it may be completely useless! Ha.
I will keep you updated as I am doing a good bit of testing today/tonight. Keep your fingers crossed that it makes the deck even better!
February 3, 2014 5:21 p.m.
I agree it warrants playtesting but I love the Coiling Oracle here. I'm interested to see how it works out. Good luck bud!
February 3, 2014 5:32 p.m.
why not keep blue and run 2 Cyclonic Rift ?? you have the mana for it and it ruin zoo and menfolk. That's what I'm running in my casual version
February 3, 2014 5:57 p.m.
February 3, 2014 6:01 p.m.
i also feel that, since you have 9 enchants adding any color of mana to lands being tapped, you should run 1 of Vault of the Archangel for a win con and life buff.
if you have trample out, your Mistcutter Hydra hits the creature(s) blocking for 1 dmg (ea.) and keeps swinging in. so early game if he gets out as a 10/10 or so ( i did on T3 ) you can make sure he hits with the death touch trample against zoo. the life gain would be tremendous in modern as well. gaining 10-25 life on T4 would be game over for them.
February 3, 2014 6:02 p.m.
You are also right about Mistcutter Hydra ...I try to find as many ways to get his damage through as possible. Thus far I've got Nylea, God of the Hunt to give him trample, in the version right now I have Kessig Wolf Run to give him trample (although it makes him -2/-2 at the same time) and I also tried Rogue's Passage when the deck was pure mono green...but giving him lifelink and deathtouch would be a huge benefit even if he was blocked...that is a neat idea.
February 3, 2014 6:36 p.m.
It does require you to declare one of your enchantments black and one white before it works. You're at the same time trying to declare one red for Wolf Run which means that unless you're interacting with one of those 2 non-basics which is only 3 cards total, those ramp enchants are colorless mana. As is Vault of Archangel if you play it before you're ready to combo it with a big creature. That's a whole lot of mana that can't go towards green symbols all of a sudden. Bear that in mind.
February 3, 2014 7:07 p.m.
Midwest....you do have to think upfront when casting [[utopia sprawl]...Abundant Growth and Fertile Ground to allow you to fix a not more (as they tap for any color each turn . Dreno33's idea did get me thinking though! I'm trying out a Slayers' Stronghold to see if it helps me with a Primalcrux or Nylea, God of the Hunt a turn early. Since we're already splashing red as our second color; we would only need one Fertile Ground or Abundant Growth]] for the white (or an on-turn Utopia Sprawl so we knew we needed the white). Who knows! None of these ideas may take; but they're worth a shot!
February 3, 2014 7:29 p.m.
Definitely worth a shot. Innovative decks aren't built by thinking, they're built by testing.
February 3, 2014 8:02 p.m.
So Abundant Growth is really good. It :
- Provides 1-Devotion
- Draws a card for 1-green mana
- Ensures an early game Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Kessig Wolf Run can tap for green if need be.
- Provides red mana if I need a Kessig Wolf Run Trigger and don't draw into my Stomping Ground s.
It kills me to replace Coiling Oracle (as it is a great card for ANY ramp deck); but I save myself an average of 4-5 damage a game (between fetches and shock lands) and I'm much less vulnerable to merfolk. That, and it's 1-mana cheaper :).
Abundant Growth creates a smoother, more streamlined deck. It looks like it's here to stay.
February 4, 2014 4 a.m.
The fact that it mana fixes your colorless lands early sounds really useful. I may need to playtest it some in my deck.
February 4, 2014 4:51 a.m.
Have you ever considered playing genesis wave in this deck?
February 17, 2014 7:03 a.m.
he has considered Genesis Wave at least a dozen times. in the end, he found it underwhelming for the Mistcutter Hydra turned into a 0/0 in the process. Not only that, but this deck uses it's mana dump in many ways already, which makes it unnecessary and more harmful to the deck to take out other cards for the Genesis Wave . the cards he uses for mana dumping that I referred to include: Kessig Wolf Run (whole point of Stomping Ground and enchantments help as well), Nylea, God of the Hunt , and Mistcutter Hydra . This is more than enough to help push his creatures over the opponent's. plus, having Summoner's Pact in here basically allows him to have 6 Mistcutter Hydra s in here since he has haste.
Now, that all being said, CurdBrosBrewingCo created a deck with the idea of this same type of ramp focused on Genesis Wave and elves. We are all (a few of us green fanatics and curd) finding that the elf devotion deck is starting to feel a bit more competitive and consistent. It's all such exciting shit! haha. anyways, take a look at that deck, i'm sure you'll find it to your liking:
February 17, 2014 7:18 a.m.
You are 100% correct that Genesis Wave is a MUST when thinking of green devotion decks. It took me some time to find a deck that I felt took the most advantage of the spell without being entirely dependant on it. The Elf Devotion (Modern) deck has been my take on a Genesis Wave devotion deck. It's actually been surprisingly good (although it did take a lot of play-testing and practice as it is not entirely straight forward as sometimes you have to "hold up" a n additional Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx before a wave, or hold a Heritage Druid , etc....but I won't get too far into on this deck's page).
This is my favorite aggro take on green devotion, but you make a GREAT point that Genesis Wave seems to scream green devotion :). I hope the Elf Devotion (Modern) deck meets your wishes to see a viable Genesis Wave deck; but I am always open to new ideas and improvements! Thanks so much for suggesting it!
February 17, 2014 4:42 p.m.
GREEN MAGE COALITION UNITE! TOGETHER WE TRAMPLE, DIVIDED WE HEXPROOF!
February 17, 2014 4:57 p.m.
Thanks v4v3! I can't believe it made it to 100. It's our first deck to hit over 100; and the TappedOut community had a lot to do with it. Hopefully some people have brought it to their local tournament and won some great stuff :)
February 19, 2014 5:22 p.m.
I got an idea: Mirror Gallery . I mean, late game, with this out, you can play all your Nylea, God of the Hunt s together if they're ending up in your hand, and have a bunch of 6/6s on the field. Plus, it keeps opponents from using stuff like Clone to destroy her.
February 19, 2014 6:04 p.m.
I think under the new legend rule; even if they clone Nylea, God of the Hunt on their side; we both still keep em (they don't blow up). I could be wrong though. Given the timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this rule change was made just for the gods :)
Having two on my side would be awesome though! I will def test with it to see what kind of fun interactions arise. Thank you for the suggestion!
February 19, 2014 8 p.m.
Do you have no answers for land destruction? If they target your enchanted lands, it really hurts this deck. I'd venture to say that's this decks biggest weakness, so you should try to address it.
March 9, 2014 11:12 p.m.
March 10, 2014 4:23 p.m.
I'll look into adding some additional sideboard material toward LD decks. Pithing Needle can work; but I'm sure there are other great options too!
March 10, 2014 10:43 p.m.
March 13, 2014 7:14 a.m.
I played a variation of this deck at an FnM last night and ran into a few problems. first I'd like to say I love this deck and everything it stands for.
(By variation I mean I haven't been able to find 3 Summoner's Pact which is the main piece I'm missing.)
Ground Seal seems like a better option for GY hate. I was running 2 Scavenging Ooze in my SB for that reason, along with Relics but they are too slow at nailing the cards that need to be targeted. Only problem might be cards that let you shuffle your GY, unless it prevents that too.
For reference, the first deck I played was a Tron, Reanimator running Gifts Ungiven . It sucked. went 0-2. Sideboarded in all the beast withins and Ooze's.
Second match was against my buddy that was there that I playtest with all the time. I simply couldn't hit my draws and ended up taking a 6 card hand with little mana. I won game one on turn 4 or so, then lost the second two pretty bad. He was running a weird 4 color deck he thought up that actually did really good. Relied on stalling until he got Kiora's ultimate, along with Vesner.
Third match was a robots deck. Mass artifact removal would have been amazing.
I know I didn't play as well as I should have, and I need to work on sideboarding but after talking to my friend and going over what happened we determined that haste is needed, and more interaction with their deck.
Still love the deck and will keep playing it.
March 18, 2014 6:28 p.m.
If you ever play against Splinter Twin decks, Torpor Orb shuts combo off. Granted many splash green for Stomping Ground and Ancient Grudge , but you are forcing them to respond to it and slowing them down. I'd prefer using it over Pithing Needle in the current meta. (it also hinders Vendilion Clique which is hugely played right now)
March 18, 2014 7:31 p.m.
This deck is ridiculously fast and powerful! I may have to use a couple of your card idea's to mod my devotion deck. I had a BLAST play testing this prize of a deck. Well done you guys! +1 through and through. XD
March 20, 2014 12:32 p.m.
Thanks elicit and Grimgrinner....you are both absolutely right that I need to update the sideboard. I will do so now. I haven't updated it since the banning/unbannings and the meta is certainly different now (given the massive drop in Jund and regular Splintertwin and the rise in Affinity and Pod). I will update this as quickly as I can (as I will be testing the deck this evening).
March 21, 2014 5:34 p.m.
LordOfMishap....Thank you so much! I have LOVED this deck for some time now. Green has always been my color of choice; so when Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx came along I was in love! I've always loved Primalcrux but this is the first time I've found it to be competitive....
Take any and all ideas you want! I hope you are able to make a Modern deck you love playing just as much as I love this one! I consider this and my Elf Devotion (Modern) decks to be the two decks I consider to be the decks the represent my playstyle perfectly....and I know there are plenty of other rampers out there who just want to make as much mana as they can and do funny stuff with it :)
Please keep me updated on your deck. I love seeing any and all green-based decks; but by all means use any idea you want...the community was a huge help on this deck; so I can't really claim that 100% of them were all my idea anyways :) Thanks again for your kind words and your +1! I can't wait to see your deck!
March 21, 2014 5:38 p.m.
I still love this deck and I've been taking a lot of the ramping ideas and trying to adapt them to other decks I'm working on.
March 22, 2014 12:23 p.m.
I LOVE both cards...and you are absolutely right that both are great in Devotion decks....great eye!
I actually made a deck with these two cards in it called Grull Hasty Devotion because I had a lot of people suggesting certain cards and asking me about certain cards; so I told them I would make a deck that took into account some of the cards they wanted to see. Gaea's Revenge (in my opinion) is one of the most powerful green finishers in the game; and it is massively underplayed...and Xenagos, God of Revels still hasn't seen its full potential in Modern.
I'd love to see the deck your creating! Please do link me to it when you've got the first draft out there!
March 22, 2014 5:25 p.m.
I'm curious about straying from the initial idea of a "Mono Green" and adding in smaller utility cards from other colors to make things easier. Perhaps using Abundant Growth to cast into a Aqueous Form or something.
Xenagos Green Ramp is the Xenagod style deck I'm thinkin. You could still utilize Primalcrux due to getting the hast treatment. For even more card draw you could use Garruk, Primal Hunter too I suppose. Not to mention a potential target for Aspect of Hydra in the form of a 3/3 with haste and trample :)
You could even run Warriors' Lesson if you start flooding with 3/3's or using your smaller creatures that get pumped. Craterhoof Behemoth Might be a good option instead of Primalcrux, then sideboard Gaea's Revenge or Savage Summoning against control.
March 23, 2014 12:21 a.m.
I love where you're going with this elicit! Xenagos, God of Revels
wasn't even spoiled when I first developed this deck; but I do love the interaction (as a Primalcrux
with haste is CRAZY). That ; and in this build, both Nylea, God of the Hunt
and Xenagos, God of Revels
can easily become indestructible creatures the moment they hit the board! I'm definitely gonna test this! Great ideas!
March 23, 2014 3:11 a.m.
Any chance you could comment on my iteration of MJ's Mono-Green Devotion deck? You seem like you know what you're talking about. :D
April 4, 2014 12:33 a.m.
Isn't it a little bit too slow for modern? I mean if you don't have this perfect hand .. You'll need about 5 or 6 rounds to win...
April 7, 2014 5:52 a.m.
bastena...thanks for your question! To answer your question quickly....No this deck is not too slow for the Modern format.
First, the "Gold Fish" example showed an instance of dealing 90+ power on turn-4. This is obviously quite a bit more than is needed :) It is much easier to deal 20 damage by turn-4 (which in 9 out of 10 games is all you will need). You don't need a "perfect hand" to deal 20 damage within 4 turns (or even 20 total damage on the fourth turn). You do need a perfect hand to do 100+ damage by turn 4 :)
You are absolutely right that Modern is a 4-Turn format. This, however, does not mean that every (or really even a majority) of games will end on the fourth turn. It just means that most games (60%+) will be DECIDED by turn 4. It may take another turn or two to finish them off; but in Modern, most games show a board state/hand state that indicate who has won by turn 4 (barring anything crazy). This is what is meant by a "4-Turn Format"....granted, most decks in Modern can win by turn-4 (some on turn 3) ; however if you have someone promising you that EVERY game will be consistently won by turns 3 or 4 most likely you are looking at a "glass cannon" deck and/or someone who has not properly tested their deck against the entire Modern Meta. This is especially true post-boarding.
Having said all of this, you are absolutely right that most Modern decks (save control and tempo builds) MUST have the potential to win by turn-4. If not disrupted in any way, a deck must be capable of winning by turn-4 with regularity. If it takes too long to "set up" your win; you will lose to decks like Storm, Affinity, Zoo, RDW, etc. Fortunately, this deck has no real problem winning by turn 4 (and quite often if not disrupted). It only takes 20 damage to win; and this deck can deal 20 relatively quickly.
Given all of this, however; there is really only one true way to see if a deck is viable in Modern...testing. Given the types of disruption, the current meta (i.e. which decks are popular), your sideboard, etc. it is far more important to see if you can win 2 out of 3 games with regularity with all 75 cards against the best decks in the meta than it is building a combo that is the fastest in the land (and this is coming from somebody that LOVES combo/synergy decks :)
I hope this best answers your question. The whole "turn-4" things gets kinda convoluted sometimes; but the simplest answer is that this deck can do 20 damage consistently by turn-4. I appreciate the question; because it is a SUPER important one. Great question.
April 7, 2014 6:03 p.m.
OOOOOOHHH i like Eidolon of Blossoms . THEY FINALLY SPOILED SOMETHING. Jesus H Christ it took long enough, haha. That R/W god is pretty darn cool as well.
So, with the addition of Eidolon of Blossoms , any thought on running a bit more enchantments? I say Spider Umbra for the totem armor and reach. or you can just go more mana and play Fertile Ground , lol. But if you do decide to include one of those, I WISH YOU LOOK on what to replace it for :D
April 7, 2014 6:17 p.m.
wow . . . i spelled luck wrong. I'm going to leave now. :P oh and let me just leave Fertile Ground here once more. Forgot to "suggest" it last comment ;)
April 7, 2014 6:24 p.m.
I know!!! I was getting anxious to see some new stuff (as anymore, like 12 cards in every set make it into Modern!) The Eidolon of Blossoms does create opportunities for Mono-Green Devotion decks to utilize even more enchantments....so exciting! I will definitely have to look into more enchantments.
The R/W god is AWESOME! I can definitely see it in both Standard and even Modern....opens up slightly new territory. This Eidolon of Blossoms is crazy useful...so many decks can be made with it (Enchantress style decks, Boggles-style decks, etc.). Can't wait to see what else gets spoiled!
What do you think could/should be removed to make some room?
April 7, 2014 6:26 p.m.
April 7, 2014 6:31 p.m.
haha! I know RedZebra....It feels like it's not a green deck :)
Card draw has been something I've been really interested in green devotion decks lately....having huge amounts of card draw and mana makes decks very difficult to beat...the combination builds on itself when devotion is involved. My Elf Devotion deck has 22 cards that draw cards as well...it's silly because they've created three different ETB "draw a card" elves over the last 10 years.
Eidolon of Blossoms really pushes the card draw over the edge here though...like you said, it makes Abundant Growth crazy! I was floored when I saw it. Carven Caryatid was good (the 5 toughness also shouldn't be overlooked); but this was just too much...such a great card with so much building space. I think we'll see Eidolon of Blossoms in a few other places as well.
April 7, 2014 7:04 p.m.
April 7, 2014 7:53 p.m.
I clicked +1 again a few times, but it did nothing. It's the thought that counts though, right?
Nice addition. :)
April 7, 2014 8:01 p.m.
Okay I have all the cards available... And I'll try it out :-) I gave you the +1 a few weeks ago cause I like this mono green thing and how you built it.... But a friend of mine meant this could be too slow for modern.
April 8, 2014 2:51 a.m.
Hey bastena! Yeah...Devotion decks can be tough to "calculate" in terms of how quickly one can ramp (along with the enchanting and untapping lands thing and Mistcutter's haste)....this can be a very difficult deck to see the speed of. Having said this, if your local meta is super fast (like a bunch of small Zoo, Storm, and Affinity decks) you will definitely want to sideboard for this (as you are not SUPER fast like these; but you are plenty fast).
Xenagos, God of Revels would be great in here! You could EASILY remove one Nylea, God of the Hunt for one Xenagos (and probably should as given the card draw and Summoner's Pact 's; 3 Nylea's is probably too many). You can add another Stomping ground and you would be more than fine. Between the Abundant Growth , Utopia Sprawl , and Stomping Ground ; you will have little problem generating the 1-red mana you will need. To be honest; Xenagos, God of Revels should probably be in here...and I'm adding one if you don't mind :) I will most certainly cite it as your idea.
BTW.....I really appreciate the +1!! Thank you! And never feel bad about asking questions pertaining to speed or viability of decks...it's the only way they get better!
April 8, 2014 3:08 a.m.
April 8, 2014 3:10 a.m.
Your deck title can now be changed to "Izzet an Arrow?"
wait for it . . . Let it dawn on you . . . did you get it? :D
April 8, 2014 3:14 a.m.
bastena....you are on to something here.... given Eidolon of Blossoms ; Xenagos, God of Revels is Amazing in this deck...it turns Primalcrux into an Instant Speed Win-Condition! He can be tutored with a Summoner's Pact and most likely will be a creature himself....he can even given Nylea, God of the Hunt haste and +6/+6 if she is an active creature! With Mistcutter it doubles his power, etc....basically, depending on the board state and situation; I can use Summoner's Pact to create the best win-con for the situation....great idea! I will certainly be testing this immediately.
April 8, 2014 3:18 a.m.
hahahahaah! Dreno33....I totally get it...it broke my heart when there wasn't enough blue left to make the arrow head; but it's back!!! I won't change the deck no matter what is spoiled, suggested, etc. :)
April 8, 2014 3:35 a.m.
Thanks v4v3....what a lucky spoiled card :) I did the same on your "infinite green" deck and for some reason it only gave me one +1 too....we'll have to write to someone to get this fixed...ha.
16smith....I have tried Khalni Hydra in the deck and it definitely is good; but I prefer Primalcrux in this particular build. It is a very small margin; but Primalcrux just works better here in my testing....I provided a little deeper discussion of this in the Deck Choices (Mono Green Devotion) thread; so if you want to read it there it provides a little more insight into what I found testing between the two. It is a great card in here; however, and you wouldn't go wrong playing it. Great suggestion!
April 8, 2014 3:40 a.m.
Fair enough. I see whatcha mean. Cool deck though, +1 from me.
April 8, 2014 8:20 a.m.
Thank you so much 16smith for the +1 and your comments /suggestions to improve the deck !
April 8, 2014 1:01 p.m.
Added Eidolon of the Great Revel in the Sideboard....it's AMAZING in Modern (destroys Storm, Affinity, etc.) and we have multiple spells over 3 CMC (more than most Modern decks). That, and with our Eidolon of Blossoms (also over 3 CMC) it would draw us a card :) The Eidolon cycle looks like they were made specifically for Modern! They are soooo good in this format. I'm banking on the white one being a Ghostly Prison on a stick, and the black being a Phyrexian Arena creature....and who knows what the blue one will do! Truly awesome cycle (the green one just happened to work here; but boy does it work in here!)
April 12, 2014 3:58 a.m.
I've got a deck kind of like this (well, it's at least MGD) :Turn 3 Craterhoof Behemoths with only 2 lands!.
April 15, 2014 4:18 p.m.
OMG, sorry, forgot to ask: It isn't super consistent,. Could I halve some help with that?
April 15, 2014 4:49 p.m.
I think you will be very interested in genesis hydra once it is released.
April 15, 2014 5:27 p.m.
nbarry223...what an awesome card! They've been printing cards that make a green Mage's heart smile lately! I was going to add it to the list; but thought I'd wait until it was a little closer to the time it was actually going to be released; but I am for sure testing it right away!
We were just talking/laughing about this. Its funny, because my bro has been focused on a deck we're posting today that the new red mythic fit perfectly in...and these came along and we figured MTG had bugged our place and were printing cards for us :)
April 15, 2014 5:50 p.m.
Well, I think that m15 is going to bring a bunch of really broken cards. Waste Not is probably the most broken in modern, since instant speed discard can be a thing there.
Both of the spoiled rares look like they have plenty of potential to be built around, can't wait for the other colors.
April 15, 2014 5:59 p.m.
BTW: deck name got changed to: Legit Mono-Green Burn (Is That Even Possible?).
April 15, 2014 8:41 p.m.
I agree wholeheartedly nbarry223...Waste Not is absolutely absurd and will see play in discard-based decks (which exist in Modern)...Genesis Hydra also seems super powerful in green. Hopefully the other colors get equally powerful rares...M15 I think is going to be a relatively powerful set (as they will try to offset the new boarder with a great set).
April 16, 2014 12:55 a.m.
Hey, this might be a bit offtopic, but I just stumbled upon a few green cards and came up with the idea of a green control deck. However, it seems to lack any answers to aggro decks spitting out creatures like no tommorrow, any ideas on what could help with that?
Here's list if that helps at all.
I'm not all that familiar with green, even though I seem to be making more and more green decks, so figured I'd ask if either of you could think of anything to help.
April 16, 2014 10:34 p.m.
I love the deck, I've been looking for green ramp in modern for a little bit, because who doesn't like casting 12/12 turn 4? I'm glad it's pretty cheap too! +1
April 23, 2014 5:34 p.m.
Hi, guys! Wow, ain't this a fresh, fun and new take on Green Devotion? I'm really enjoying the testing so far, and can't wait to take it to my local FNM. :D Congrats!
April 23, 2014 5:40 p.m.
I'm sorry if this was discussed before, but what are your thoughts on Bow of Nylea? I guess that at, as 3-drop, there's no room for it? It just seems great with Eidolon of Blossoms and Nykthos.
April 23, 2014 5:45 p.m.
leafpowernow, thanks so much for your kind words! It was definitely my intent to try to provide a slightly different take on Green Devotion than we've seen in Modern (i.e. the Primeval Titan , Primal Command , Eternal Witness build...
April 23, 2014 7:36 p.m.
mojachie...I hadn't even noticed how cheap this deck was :) We generally build without the cost of the cards in mind; but I much prefer our decks to be as financially feasible as possible (so more people can play them). Thanks so much for pointing that out. I hadn't even thought about it. I hope you do well with it in your FNM!
April 23, 2014 7:42 p.m.
So, CurdBrosBrewingCo, have you taken this to any tournaments? How did they go?
April 23, 2014 7:46 p.m.
Not a bad playtest, slow T1-T4 though. On T4 I played a garruk and eidolon to set myself up for T5, so it probably would have met some sort of kill spell. Regardless, I had another eidolon in my hand and drew into a third on T5 so I smiled and played out my awesome Turn 5.
As you can see, I ended up with a 10/10 hasty hydra and attacked with it and the T4 eidolon. Aspect of Hydra for 17 devotion and both already trampling for a secured win.
April 23, 2014 8:04 p.m.
I don't like solo-playtesting, as you meet with no resistance, so it doesn't really let you know where your deck's weaknesses lie. I PREFER losing when trying to playtest decks, because you learn far more from how you lost, than your deck working fine and meeting with no resistance.
I mean that's good for openers and learning to mull properly, but that's about it in my opinion, you need to actually face someone to playtest properly in my opinion.
That's just how I feel though, I'm sure there's times when live playtesting just isn't possible, or is too time consuming.
April 23, 2014 8:59 p.m.
Hey Dreno33...I haven't actually as I've been playing my Elves and Friends deck for the past few weeks. I need to try it out in a daily (as the majority of my play is online now)...I'll let you know if and when I play it and how it did. Glad to see your testing went ok...I can live with Turn 5 :)
April 23, 2014 10:15 p.m.
Hey nbarry223...I agree. It's fun to "goldfish" sometimes; but the only way to build solid decks is to playtest against others. My playtesting is always against someone else (generally my brother). I am the same as you...once I figure out the bad match ups; I focus almost solely on those! It's the only way to learn how to build a 75 that can maintain in the meta....we try to put our decks against the top 10 decks in the meta (via www.mtgtop8.com) and find out which deck are the poor match ups and develop a sideboard from there. We then also always include Red Deck Wins (as it is always popular in Modern on MTGO :) That's at least our general testing.
April 23, 2014 10:20 p.m.
TBH, i thought this deck was better before you changed up with Eidolon of Blossoms and other such stuff. a playset of Abundant Growth sure helps for devotion and color fixing, but when you can't activate (or draw) Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx , it just slows everything down.
April 24, 2014 12:54 a.m.
it cantrips itself, so it's not that much of a loss. I see it as a way to totally tap out, you shouldn't be giving up better plays to play a 1 CMC that does nothing, but it is there for when you have that 1 mana left.
I think it is fine in this particular deck, since devotion matters.
I try to playtest beyond the top 8 and figure out what card(s) can totally screw my deck. Once that's figured out, I decide how heavily to side against them depending on how much I foresee them being played. For example, Extirpate
totally kills my one deck, but since it isn't a form of grave hate that sees all that much play (in legacy), I side against the ones that do more heavily, even though Extirpate
is a much bigger threat. And when choosing the anti-hate, I try to pick things that hit other decks too, to serve a dual purpose.
Once the problem cards are covered satisfactorily, I devote whatever spots are remaining to the top 8 builds. I think it's more important to cover my weaknesses than to increase chances against matches I might never see.
One thing that has me baffled is why you have Eidolon of the Great Revel which has a double red cost in the side board as an answer to really fast decks. If that's your answer to them, with your manabase, you might die before it can hit the field. I'd suggest either adding in some fetches, or swapping it out for something more playable, like Chalice of the Void . There's only 6 cards in here that produce red, because you aren't running Burning-Tree Emissary so casting it early enough without fetches could present itself as a problem.
April 24, 2014 2:06 a.m.
Hey Grimgrinner! The deck hasn't changed much recently outside of switching out Carven Caryatid for Eidolon of Blossoms ...I love Carven Caryatid (it's a great devotion card) and thought it was necessary when Wild Nacatl was first spoiled; however there haven't been as many Zoo decks as I thought would pop up and Eidolon of Blossoms simply draws WAY too many cards not to use :)
In terms of Abundant Growth
, I honestly believe it is one of the best green devotion cards in the entire game. It cantrips itself, adds to your devotion, helps ensure you don't miss land drops, and fixes your mana. I originally thought it was a neat "filler" card to help fix mana; but I have been really impressed with how it plays in my decks and end up putting it in every devotion deck I build. I saw a stream a few days ago where Michael Jacob said that it was "far superior" to Elvish Visionary
...I don't know if I'd go that far; but I agree with him that it is crazy good in these decks. It is odd (as it doesn't seem like a great card in a vaccum); but I promise it works well in reality.
Please do let me know which cards you thought were better in the deck before and I will make sure to test them. I'm always open to change, even if that change is simply changing back to where I was before! Thanks for your thoughts!
April 24, 2014 2:51 a.m.
Hello again nbarry223....I like your testing ideas...I do like to think of cards that can absolutely cripple me and make sure I guard my weaknesses (especially if they see play in the meta)...especially in decks with a very "linear" approach as I call it. Great ideas!
I need to go through the sideboard again as well. Eidolon of the Great Revel was initially added to deal speficially with Storm in Modern (and some Red Deck Wins) decks. Both of these decks see a very large % in MTGO (where we play more than paper); so the sideboard is a little geared that way. I don understand what you are saying about the red investment, however; and will look into other options. Thanks for the suggestion!
April 24, 2014 3:02 a.m.
Thank you for such quick reply! I'm glad Bow of Nylea is getting some cosideration. It's versatility is exactly what makes it unique. And Modern format is all about variety, right? I think it has potential, at least as a SB option.Which takes me to my next question. Regarding Sideboarding, I find really difficult to know what to take out. I usually identify what I need after game 1, so I know what to board in, but can't decide what to take out. Could you give us some guide on which aspect of the deck (ramp, draw engine, etc.) you usually consider to take out (not entirely, of course, but a few cards belonging to that aspect)?Thanks again! :D
April 24, 2014 5:17 a.m.
April 24, 2014 1:14 p.m.
I was saying that Abundant Growth slows things down because it costs 1 mana, which could be spent casting something more useful. You generate a ton of mana, but if nythos isn't on the field it still sets you back.
I thought Eidolon of Blossoms was bad because CMC 4, as well as dying to 9/10ths of the removal in modern (Lightning Bolt , Path to Exile , Doom Blade , Pyroclasm , Anger of the Gods , Terminate to list a few). Sure "dies to removal" isn't a good argument to not include it in a deck, but why rely on such a fragile combo engine? It just seems like a lot of work. Hell even an attacking Snapcaster Mage trades with it.
I think Wistful Selkie is more efficient because of 1 extra devotion, 1 less mana to cast. Also viable was your previous inclusion of Carven Caryatid . The 2/5 stats are super relevant in the meta. The defensive value gives you more time to ramp.
April 24, 2014 3:17 p.m.
Grimgrinner....I totally see what you are saying about Eidolon of Blossoms vs. Carven Caryatid ...Carven Caryatid incidentally was one of the cards I was most proud of pulling out of Gatherer :) I will pay very close attention to how often Eidolon's low toughness effects the game (i.e. how many time it would cost me a game over having a Carven Caryatid . That's a very good point.
yeah...I see what you are saying about Abundant Growth
...it just ends up playing so darn well that I can't see removing it (although I could be biased to it).
Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. Sometimes I either (a) read too much into someone's comments, or (b) don't read the words correctly to get the full point someone is making....so it is super helpful. I do appreciate it. Both are good points that I will make sure to keep note of in my testing. Thanks!
April 24, 2014 9:54 p.m.
leafpowernow....definitely! I think Bow of Nylea could definitely see play in the right build...being able to ping and kill a pesky Delver of Secrets Flip both pre - and post-flip, a V. Clique, an Ornithopter , a Vault Skirge , and numerous other flyers; being able to pump up a creature permanently for both damage and combat tricks, and being able to gain life against Red Deck Wins, Valakut, and numerous other decks makes Bow of Nylea a viable card....like you said, no one function is over the top for its cost; but the versatility of the card makes it useable against nearly every deck AND it adds 2-devotion....and having deathtouch on your chump blockers is never a bad thing :) I will definitely need to test this card more. Great idea!
In terms of sideboarding; of course it varies between each opposing deck; but there are some general things that tend to happen a majority of the time:
- If I am siding in only green cards; I tend to remove one Abundant Growth
- I tend to side out all (or all but one) of the "beater" that is least effective against the opposing deck (i.e. if I am not playing against control, I may side out all but one Mistcutter Hydra ...that's the great thing about having Summoner's Pact . If I run into an open board and have only one Mistcutter Hydra in the deck but I sided it out; I can still call it up and cast it!
- Against decks where the game is going to go a little longer (i.e. decks with heavy removal, control, etc.) I will actually board out one land (normally a single Forest and/or Kessig Wolf Run ...both if adding a Cavern of Souls ).
- If you are ever stuck needing one more card to board out; you can always choose to board out 1 Garruk Wildspeaker . Three will normally cover what you need (I just play four because of the crazy powerful things he does in mono-green).
These are just generalizations; but I hope they help. I'll try to provide an updated sideboard with explanation of both the choices and what to side in and out and when...that is a great idea on your part and I should have already done so.
Vigor is a cool idea btw...I will for sure being trying that out!
These are obviously g
April 24, 2014 10:11 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo, thank you so much for the SB ideas. I would have never tried taking out one Abundant Growth , for example. Also, as it has been suggested before, even though Wistful Selkie is great as both draw engine and devotion enabler, now that Eidolon of Blossoms is mainboard we could test Courser of Kruphix at the 3 drop place. It provides with some card advantage when you hit lands, triggers Eidolon, it gains you life, survives Bolt, is as aggresive as Selkie...bad thing is devotion, since that ONE devotion enabler difference could be a big deal.Once I put this deck together (I'm hoping next week), I'll definitely try this and let you know whatever I find out. :DThanks for all!
April 25, 2014 6:27 a.m.
Bow of Nylea does NOT give chump blockers deathtouch, ONLY attackers.
Didn't know if you made a simple mistake or mistyped, but felt necessary to bring to your attention in case you didn't know.
April 25, 2014 7:09 a.m.
I like the idea of Courser of Kruphix ...its a Truly great card that nearly improves every deck its in.... Switching Selkie out for it may end up being beneficial. Can't guarantee card draw (as Eidolon won't always be there considering its a 4-drop); but there's a lot of card draw already. I'd love to hear how it works! Please keep me filled in leafpowernow.
Thanks Dreno...I'll see of I can reword the comment.
April 25, 2014 9:12 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo Hi! Well, early testing with Courser of Kruphix didn't go that well, I'm afraid. This deck running 20 lands only, so I've seen that Courser hardly ever makes a topdeck land enter the battlefield. A friend of mine is running Courser of Kruphix in a 26 land ramp deck and the effect really is noticeable.Perhaps Wistful Selkie is just better after all!
April 25, 2014 9:25 a.m.
I run Verduran Enchantress in my Modern deck as a three of as my three drop. I run 16 enchantments and you're running 15. It should work fine for you too. Abundant Growth becomes one green to draw two cards at that point. It's also great because you can turn two Wildspeaker, untap your lands for three mana and play enchantress. Which gives you massive draw potential from turn three on.
April 25, 2014 1:45 p.m.
Honestly I don't know why Courser of Kruphix costs more than $5. It's not that great outside of standard, and I don't even like it IN standard. Sure you can squeeze out some land drops, and gain a few life, but this card aint no Oracle of Mul Daya . You also allow your opponent to know what cards you are drawing, which to me means you need to really make it powerful for it to be worth it.
April 25, 2014 6:55 p.m.
It does work in decks with more than 23 lands usually. It's absolutely amazing in my green amulet of vigor deck, since I have plenty of extra land per turn cards. When it works, it works very well, but it doesn't have a place in every deck.
You generally need it for the ability to eliminate land draws when you run it, otherwise there are better cards. I prefer it over Oracle of Mul Daya for a few reasons. First is CMC, 4 is an awkward spot in any deck, 3 allows for turn 2 plays. Second, it is resistant to burn since it has four toughness, that is very relevant. The life for land drops is just icing on the cake, it wasn't a major contributing factor when choosing it.
April 25, 2014 9:19 p.m.
May 15, 2014 4:56 a.m.
Hey, I love the deck, but any idea why it's listed as only legal in Legacy?
May 15, 2014 11:22 a.m.
Hey Earthsfire...I've yet to play anyone with Eidolon of the Great Revel
; but it would be interesting to see if they killed me before I killed them! :) I'll have to try it out in testing. I haven't tested this deck recently; so I really need to "Refresh" the sideboard and myself on this deck.
May 15, 2014 8:45 p.m.
Dude look at the arrow of Nylea in the picture. It was meant to be in your deck circle.
May 15, 2014 9:52 p.m.
haha! I had noticed that...I think Dreno33 called the deck "Izzet an Arrowhead?" :) I can't change the deck now!
May 15, 2014 10:27 p.m.
+1! seems like a pretty stable deck, could I recommend Khalni Hydra as pretty much THE green devotion card? an extra +8/+8 to primalcrux isn't anything to laugh at
here's my version of this:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/fininshing-the-fight-midrange-style/
May 17, 2014 4:54 p.m.
+1 Thanks for making this deck! I had to smile when I saw it, because I was so psyched when I saw Eidolon of Blossoms had come out and even more psyched when I saw that you guys had made this deck using it. Nylea, God of the Hunt was also brilliant.
I'm curious how you fared when testing out Courser of Kruphix . The courser is cool cause she's an enchantment, so you get an extra card with her when your Eidolon of Blossoms is in play. I had always envisioned it working well with Coiling Oracle too, since you could use oracles in hand to bring out big multi lands like Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx as you're drawing through your library using enchantments. It would be a neat sort of "mana bomb" that you could pull off to keep the turn going, though maybe the probability of it happening is just too low. It's fun to think about when you throw cards like Gaea's Cradle and Green Sun's Zenith into the mix, however ;)
May 20, 2014 11:20 p.m.
Hey DeepShadow! Thanks for the comments and +1!!!
I have been spending a lot of time recently on my current Elf Deck; and need to get back to this one too! You are absolutely right that Courser of Kruphix
could be an amazing fit here. I will definitely be testing it over Wistful Selkie
immediately! Could be a great improvement. It's an amzing card I've played with in a few other builds; but only tried it in this build for one game thus far (as I haven't given enough attention to it lately.
I will let you know how it goes, but I've got a good feeling about it :) Great suggestion. Thank you!
May 21, 2014 1:11 a.m.
also check out my mono green devotion hydra devotion
May 23, 2014 7:17 a.m.
Thank you also for your kind words and +1 !!
May 23, 2014 11:29 p.m.
Wow really liking these deck's your putting out , their not tier 1 put their new deck's not the same old one's refreshing to playtest against them keep making more +1
May 25, 2014 11:02 p.m.
Nice decklist. Add some Verdant Catacombs ? My MGD: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/toolboxdevotion-green/
May 25, 2014 11:34 p.m.
Thanks XTowelie! We try to make decks as competitive as possible, and we LOVE brewing; so we'll keep putting em out there as longs as we can come up with ideas :) It's definitely a job maintaining them (as the Modern Meta actually shifts more quickly than most think as decks and even certain cards within decks move in and out of popularity). That's what makes Modern such an awesome format. You can play Affinity in match one and the slowest control deck ever in match two! Such fun. The good news is; there is always room for improvement!
Thanks so much for your kind words! We honestly do appreciate it.
May 26, 2014 1:56 a.m.
No biggie, since you have no island targets it also helps the price vs Misty Rainforest . Can't afford 'em myself though...
May 26, 2014 8:40 p.m.
Have you thought about Helix Pinnacle as a one of? It's slower than the hydra but twice as hilarious if it works.
May 28, 2014 10:47 p.m.
May 29, 2014 1:10 a.m.
After getting nowhere in standard with my green devotion I can see why modern would have been a better choice now XD
This is a really good deck but it seems a bit prone to removal and control enchantments. Thought about siding Fade into Antiquity or something similar? Or maybe even Evolution Charm /Nature's Spiral /Revive or Eternal Witness to get things back from graveyard?
June 6, 2014 2:16 p.m.
However, I'm not sure what would be cut for such a card.
June 6, 2014 4:04 p.m.
Eternal Witness is a GREAT green devotion card. Many decks have been built around the Eternal Witness + Primal Command Lock and it is a definite possibility. With Primal Command in my board; it may be a pretty good idea to have access to the combo as well. I'm at a point where my only issue is what to take out; but I will continue to test to see if there are cards that are simply weaker and make the change! Thanks so much for the great suggestions Haemogoblin and nbarry223 !
June 7, 2014 5:37 p.m.
dude(s). +1. i was wondering how devotion was going to impact Modern; should have figured you guys would be on it, lol. Modern is incredibly stale, and decks like this really push the format forward.
June 7, 2014 6:27 p.m.
Agreed 100%! Hopefully we are getting to a point now where there are going to be enough dailies, PTQ's, GP's, etc. in the Modern format that there may be some incentive for those in power to begin brewing new modern decks...because you are right; Modern is extremely stale....there's just no incentive for pro's to play anything but Splinter Twin
or Birthing Pod
....there are basically three "Aggro with an Infinite Combo" decks that make up a HUGE portion of any large tourney. Frankly; they are tough to beat, but fortunately there is great hate against each one.
Unfortunately, given the fact that Splinter Twin is in the format; you basically have to play a viable combo deck that can win by Turn 4 or a Mid-Range/Control deck that has answers for Splinter Twin and can win a "stretched" game against others. I think more decks would be viable if Splinter Twin was gone; but that is a long argument with good points on both sides.
There is, however, going to be some point where a pro brings a new deck to a Modern tourney and runs the board (as no one will be ready for it)...until that time comes; we all can just keep brewing and hope someone far more important than us sees it!
June 7, 2014 7:07 p.m.
Unfortunately, I don't play many decks with those particular colors, so I seldom get to use it...But when it does work they get REALLY mad because they were sure they won lol.
Bit off topic, but I felt like sharing since I saw mention of splinter twin.
June 7, 2014 10:36 p.m.
honestly though, if twin has you down, your best choice in these particular colors is probably Combust as it is a nice uncounterable 2 for 1 when they cast Splinter Twin and you take out their target.
June 7, 2014 10:39 p.m.
I do love Combust ! And you are right on about Rakdos Charm ...Gavin has it in his Grixis Rise/Fall deck's sideboard and it is HILARIOUS to watch someone hit the combo, make 100 dudes; and turn around and die before they can even attack :). That's such a great Modern sideboard card (as the artifact hate and graveyard hate are so both useful). Very smart to use that card nbarry223...and for whatever reason it doesn't see a ton of play.
I don't mind splinter twin as a match up and there is adequate hate in most colors and several artifacts that can deal with it...so I wouldn't go as far as saying its oppressive to the meta...I just wonder sometimes if the format would be a healthier one without it given some of the restrictions in can put on the format. Who knows though! I LOVE Modern, and I think it will only get better with the coming sets!
June 7, 2014 11:31 p.m.
I'm glad that conspiracy is a special set in some ways though, they re-printed a lot of really powerful cards that would have to be banned in modern if it was a modern legal printing. M15 looks like it should add a lot of really good cards though (Waste Not is my favorite spoil so far, but a whole lot of them look really promising), so I am definitely looking forward to that. I just hope that the block sets have a lot of potential too and we aren't waiting another year for anything relevant to eternal formats, because it looks like it could end up a really powerful standard rotation (hopefully they just make really poor mana fixing - all tapped lands - to balance it, so standard doesn't "break" and become a fast format).
June 7, 2014 11:48 p.m.
I wouldn't go so far as to call Splinter Twin degenerately powerful, but I still find it an annoying match up, and probably THE most commonly played archetype in the format. I personally feel that the fact it is an enchantment, which makes it especially weak to removal, is the main reason it hasn't seen the axe yet, and probably never will. There's just a lot of ways to deal with auras, in basically every color (even green has Beast Within to 2 for 1 sort of). I don't think it is a ban worthy card, but that still doesn't change the fact that I don't like facing it with a non-control style deck.
June 8, 2014 12:06 a.m.
I think twin is bad for the format because if you don't sideboard against it, and have specific threats against that one deck, then it's incredibly hard to beat it. Yes, I get that there's a multitude of ways to deal with it, but most of them, such as Torpor Orb , wouldn't really even be used. Tarmo-twin also has a lot of ways to get rid of your combo hate, like Ancient Grudge .
What I'm getting at is that it's format warping. The fact that it's an infinite, almost no-condition "i win" combo makes a lot of decks just unplayable that otherwise would be. That said, control usually tends to be the natural predator of combo, but control isn't very good for modern, outside of U/W/x. If Counterspell or some other strong control was in the format, it would be a much more interesting back-and-forth.
June 8, 2014 12:35 a.m.
After some deliberation I tried 1 Summoner's Pact to the sideboard -1 Elvish Visionary -1 Courser of Kruphix to put in 3 Eternal Witness . The witness is fantastic in this deck and that devotion is awesome. It seems like Courser of Kruphix should work really well but with only 20 land it's not functioning as often as I would like it to.
My friends are going to hate you through me so much lol.
June 8, 2014 3:38 a.m.
I would highly recommend using Carven Caryatid. Providing 2 devotion and drawings card on ETB is a force to be reckoned with, and it's fantastic against tokens.
June 8, 2014 6:44 a.m.
Just thought I'd point out you have a 14 card sideboard :)
June 16, 2014 11:22 p.m.
Do you think the new Nissa would go good in this deck ?
June 25, 2014 3:54 a.m.
the new nissa is pretty freaking ridiculous. Curd . . . Bro . . . think about it..
June 25, 2014 4:03 a.m.
I know Dreno33!!!! I was SOOO excited! She literally looks like she was made for Green Devotion/Ramp decks! I've already tested here a few games (made a proxy of course) and she fits perfectly in my current build (already added 1 in the list). I have to try it in here too...
June 25, 2014 8:01 a.m.
Hey, I just wanted to ask if you've been testing this build a little more. Has Nissa been of any help? How do you deal with counters targeted at key cards or with targeted removal on a finisher?
I really like it and I'm trying to build it myself. Any help you can give me in piloting this deck will help me immensely. Thanks!
August 1, 2014 3:11 p.m.
First of all i understand what you mean about Genesis Wave variants being hard to make your own, (trying that bundle of fun myself actually), but have you looked into the Tooth and Nail incarnation of nykthos green? I understand why Summoner's Pact is so amazing, but wouldn't Tooth and Nail be easier to cast? You would just need 9 mana to net Xenagos, God of Revels and say Worldspine Wurm ,(or any large trampler), and swing for the win. Also, you wouldn't have to rely on getting two of them. With your devotion/draw, getting a faster win would be much, much easier. It would also take some strain off the possibilities of counterspells, because you would have twice as many chances to get it right (assuming you don't just hit off a Mistcutter Hydra for 30+). Anyway, thats just my opinion, so do with it what you will.
October 25, 2014 1:07 p.m.
Oh how I love green! It is just so fun! I've being play testing some variants of the gen-wave/devotion deck and now I found this... Goddammit I just putted the last one together and now I want to try this one!
Did you ever considered:
Sarkhan Vol = Haste enabler(and little pump) + act of treason is awesome!
Banefire = just another win condition;
Dosan the Falling Leaf = I used to run him on my gen wave deck, Its nice against control decks I'm not sure if it fits here because the biggest reason I used to run him is that if you gen wave in to one your opponent just can't respond at all;
Summoning Trap = One of the most beautiful cards for siding against control. Turn 2 remand? ok, SUMMONIG TRAP ON YOU!
I was kinda off away from magic for a while but now I'm play testing a my Surfing on the Waves deck recently seeing if Collected Company would have a spot... still testing though! again awesome deck +1 if you have any suggestions and have time to check out my deck I would appreciate!
PS: I was thinking on running a Panglacial Wurm just for the shits and giggles."So I'm fetching and now I cast this 9/5 trample from my library", seems fun XD.