(1), Sacrifice a creature: Search your library for a land card with a basic land type and put it into play tapped. Then shuffle your library.
|Want (2)||goldfishxtracheddar , sedhyran72|
Printings View all
|Ravnica: City of Guilds (RAV)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
- Amulet of Vigor + Omnath, Locus of Rage + Perilous Forays
- Lotus Cobra + Perilous Forays + Sporemound
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Perilous Forays Discussion
1 day ago
6 days ago
VexenX, You have stated that the deck moved away from combat a while ago. You have cuts cards in the past for this very reason. Yet, you want to remove one of the few sac outlets in Perilous Forays and are considering a card that is combat based, Moraug, Fury of Akoum. Moraug may be the better card but it doesn't fit with the direction you have taken this deck.
The argument that Perilous doesnt do anything at five mana without other cards in play can also be said of Moraug which costs 6 mana.
Perilous Foray might not be pulling its weight for you but is Moraug the best replacement?
1 week ago
Looks good. You might like these: Perilous Forays, Animist's Awakening, Kamahl's Druidic Vow, Boundless Realms, Traverse the Outlands, Second Harvest, Parallel Evolution, Stone-Seeder Hierophant, Ogre Battledriver, Kalonian Hydra, Splendid Reclamation, Shared Animosity, Coat of Arms, Voyager Staff, Temur Sabertooth, Retreat to Valakut
2 weeks ago
Have you considered Perilous Forays for ramp and token sacrifice? Then you could pay one and do three damage and get a land.
2 weeks ago
Sorry for the delay with this post, and the pending update. My wife and I just welcomed a new addition to our home, so needless to say things have been a bit busy. I will also be moving to a new house next week so It might be a week or two before I get to the update. For now I will at least give you my thought on the comments, as well as the deck changes that I have landed on!
I think I will start with the changes that you will see in the update because that is the core of the conversation right now.
Force of Vigor OUT FOR Ancient Greenwarden - Although removing Force is going to upset some people, I have been generally underwhelmed by the card. Sure, free removal sounds great but I generally play this deck in a turbo aggressive way. Sure, Force might be a better card, but doesn't really follow the way I have constructed the deck.
Return of the Wildspeaker OUT FOR Valakut Exploration - This appears to be a clean card-draw upgrade to me. Although this new inclusion might not be the great card draw in the deck, I do think I will feel right at home here.
Steely Resolve OUT FOR Nahiri's Lithoforming - With this update the deck will now have 17 total creatures, and 4 different cards to tutor them out. With that being said, Steely Resolve has turned into a dead card next to Sylvan Safekeeper, who can be tutored out very easily. Adding in Nahiri's Lithoforming was a no-brainer to me. Sure, it is a "bad" Scapeshift, that still makes is a really good card.
Ranger's Path OUT FOR Three Visits - I know, about time! The only complaint I expect to hear is why I didn't cut Migration Path instead. The simple answer is because I think the added cycle is better then being able to find my non-basics. Shoot me lol.
Myriad Landscape OUT FOR Field of the Dead - Another overdue change. The value behind a hoard of "free" expendable tokens is just nuts. Whoever at Wizards though it would be ok to put this kind of value on a land has my thanks!
Mountain OUT FOR Snow-Covered Mountain - Goes along with adding Field of the Dead. I don't see the need to split the count of basics in half, all that Field cares about is have different names, and this deck ramps out basics enough that finding the snows will never be a problem.
Perilous Forays OUT FOR Moraug, Fury of Akoum/Valakut Awakening Flip - Easily the biggest controversy right now. I think I can fairly say that no card in this deck has more of a conflicting argument on both sides of cutting and keeping a card in the deck then Perilous Forays. Some people wonder why it has lasted in my list so long, while others are baffled by the fact that I am removing it. That being said, I will give you my opinion this "iconic" Om_rath card. First, it is a sac outlet in a color combo that has few. Although this argument has merit, that is not why the card was in the deck. The reason the card stayed so long was the "feel good" of being able to sac Om_rath tokens over and over again while netting more and more tapped basic lands. The christmas land is when either Lotus Cobra or Amulet of Vigor were in play! Although I pulled this off a few times, it rarely won me a game. Second, the spell cost 5 cmc. This is the biggest draw back for me, it is a 5cmc spell that does nothing for me until I have 2-4 other cards in play. Third, paying 1 mana for the sac ability nerfs that card considerably. Yes, it would be broken if it was free, but there are plenty of free sac outlets that cost less mana. All of this being said, Perilous Forays is sitting the bench and is being slotted in as my playtesting spot. Essentially I like the look of both Moraug, Fury of Akoum and Valakut Awakening Flip, but I am not in love with either on the surface. And before anyone else say it, no I do not think I can take out a land for Valakut Awakening Flip, mainly because it cannot be fetched out. Moraug, Fury of Akoum seems amazing on the surface, but the deck has mainly stepped away from winning through combat. Ill let you know how testing turns out!
With all of this being said, Zendikar Rising has been an amazing set for us! The main problem is that the deck list is insanely tight now! Making cuts in the future is going to be a real headache! Also, the creature count is reaching a record number for us! If Wizards gives us a couple more creatures it might be worth considering different cards. Also, many of you likely noticed that I decided not to cut Genesis Wave, it has won me far to many games, and you guys talked me out of it haha.
Now for some of the comments that I didn't already address with my deck changes.
BenWin: I have to be honest, the Sekki, Seasons' Guide combo does not interest me at all. I don't like combos that include dead cards when you draw into them. I also am not a big fan of infinite combos, and my meta isn't either. Nevertheless, I definitely this the combo is powerful and you should add it to your list if it is your thing!
I think Skullclamp thrives more in decks that make small creatures that die on equipping. Having to rely on another card makes it much weaker.
Sylvan Scrying likely won't be coming back. Sure, is is nice to find Cradle, but I don't need it to win the game, or any other land for that matter. I have almost considered removing more non-basics to increase to total basic land in the deck. I haven't gotten to that point get though.
This might cause an uproar, but Sensei's Divining Top is overrated in my opinion. It is amazing in the right deck, but way to many people play it as the greatest draw card ever (maybe it is for Red and White decks). I have taken mine out of most of my decks and been trading them away at their overpriced $50 price tag little by little lol.
Daedalus19876: The Ashaya, Soul of the Wild combo falls under the same concept as the Sekki, Seasons' Guide combo for me. I think you could easily turn this deck into the Tooth and Nail and I win deck, but that is not what I am really aiming for here. If you build that type of deck fill free to post it here and share! I would definitely like to see how that looks!
_Arra_: I think Lithoform Engine is a good card an all, but not at all what this deck wants. This deck thrives off of the mass amount of triggers and activations we get, and doubling a single one will really not do much for us. All we need to do instead is pay an additional land.
TraceT: I actually do think Scute Swarm is right at home in this deck, but is unfortunately under the power threshold to even be considered for this build. I say play it if you think it would be fun and let us know how it goes! the same kind of goes for Impact Tremors, the right deck, but not quite powerful enough.
I think I got to everyone's comments! I will make sure to post the update ASAP. I start packing for the move tomorrow and should be all settled by next Sunday. Until then please let me know what you think about the upcoming changes, and I am grateful for all the support!
1 month ago
Hey BenWin, thanks for the shout out. As you wrote a long post I thought it fair I do the same in reply.
I want to respond to your comment as I think there is a lot you are overlooking in your analysis, most of which is on point. However, you mentioned a few cards now a couple of times so I want to break these down a bit as you have gone to the effort to write an extensive comment.
Firstly I'd like to address your comment on Burgeoning + Ghost Town which you've shown your self to be an big advocate of. These are great cards and on paper seem to be great additions to the deck as they appear to enable one of our main objectives which is landfall triggers. However, the reason I think these cards have fallen out of favour is because they're very situational. Let me expand on that. If you do not have an opening hand with Burgeoning and a number of lands and a way to refill your hand (a very specific situation) the card is lackluster. Yes it is great if our opponents are constantly playing lands and we have Ghost Town and Burgeoning but this is honestly rarely the case. They are a weak draw 90% of the time. Even with Burgeoning in our opening hand as we do not have built in card draw we stall. Even with the increased draw effects provided by Zendikar Rising I do not think it is worth the spots.
Calling the removal of Perilous Forays crazy talk seems strange to me. The CMC of this card is 5, ideally we want to wait until Omnath, Locus of Rage is out before we play it so dodge removal. Even more ideally we want Amulet of Vigor in hand/on the battlefield too. My second gripe with the card is that once we have ramped a couple of times, played land each turn and then got into a position to 'combo off' with Perilous Forays most of the time the number of basics in our deck barely makes it worth while as it effectively switches off all our remaining ramp spells. There have been so many times I have 'gone off' with Perilous Forays and not killed a single opponent and left myself in a worse position. In my experience as this deck has evolved, and I have actually been playing it weekly since BFZ launch this card no longer packs the punch it once did.
I agree with you on Force of Vigor, this deck is extremely lean on interaction and removal as it is. This card is too strong to exclude.
Regarding Ancient Greenwarden and Doubling Season being enablers for 'overrun' type strategy I can't disagree with you more on this. We want to make 5/5 tokens on mass as we want to either trigger Warstorm Surge, Terror of the Peaks or Where Ancients Tread and/or we want to sac then to Omnath, Locus of Rage to bolt our opponents to death. We need a critical mass of 5/5s so that we can deliver enough damage to face. Mass elemental tokens also gives us sudo protection from board wipes. I know you're playing devils advocate here but no, in my opinion these cards generate huge value for Omnath generally not for a specific strategy.
Your comment on Nahiri's Lithoforming I find interesting as this is exactly my point on Perilous Forays and Burgeoning but my opinion is that Nahiri's Lithoforming is a great card almost all the time whereas the other cards I have mentioned are not. This card is gas with Titania, Protector of Argoth on the battlefield, if we have a decent hand already we are 80-90% certain to have lands to replay or draw into a land recursion effect like Crucible of Worlds or Splendid Reclamation. Not as good as Scapeshift obviously but I think you are underestimating the power of the card. Of course, play testing will tell us either way and I'll be interested to see if this card doesn't work out, which is might not, but I think until another land-centric draw card comes out this one is going to do Omnath just fine.
I haven't decided whether I am going to play Roiling Regrowth yet but I don't agree with your pros and cons analysis. The assumption that is worse than Springbloom Druid I don't think is accurate. Instant speed is a premium and shouldn't be under valued especially if you're playing with a pod with interaction etc. Getting Omnath triggers at instant speed is great and you can dodge opponents interaction. Your comments on the 4cmc ramp spells, I think these cards are just fine and fair. Not exceptional but not bad, Migration Path with cycling is a nice bonus. If these 4cmc ramp spells were instant, what would you think then?
Moraug, Fury of Akoum might just a be great additional line this deck can take. If the board state allows for it Chord of Calling this beast into play on an end step might be game winning. I am really on the fence as I'd really want a haste enabler to really break the card but honestly it might be fine by itself.
I ran Tooth and Nail for a long time with various different finishers and yeah it wins but it is not that fun a victory unless you count the time I have Omnath and Titania out and entwined It That Betrays and Keldon Firebombers into play, that was fun! It really depends what you want from Omnath. Omnath isn't my competitive deck. It is my pubstompy deck to pull out when people are bitch about one thing or another. If I want to combo to win I play one of my other decks. Each to their own though. Tooth and Nail wins games its just not for me and Sekki, Seasons' Guide is pretty weak the rest of the times you draw it.
I think your comment on non basic land search is spot on, we need more. I just don't think that there is currently any ones good enough for the deck other than Crop Rotation and Scapeshift, we just need to wait for better non basic search to be printed. A 2cmc Crop Rotation would be nice.
My issue with Skullclamp and Sensei's Divining Top is that they are not actively winning the game. If I were to include Top in my deck it would more often that not end up being a 2 mana brainstorm as I would likely shuffle it away with a fetch. Green Red doesn't have the draw that other decks have that can really abuse Top, it ends up slowing us down. Skullclamp is great value but I just don't think we'e a Skullclamp deck. I'd rather the slot for something that is enabling a win by synergising with the rest of our deck, Skullclamp doesn't, it is just value. Sure you can play it but it is detracting from what Omnath is trying to do in my opinion. You're also going to get a lot more hurt from Null Rods and Collector Ouphes out there. We have an advantage that a lot of hate doesn't really effect us. Apart from Humility of course which kinda hard counters Omnath most of the time :(
All of this discussion is what makes Omnath such a great general as there are so many viable build options.
1 month ago
Hey SteffisPeppis, I appreciate the suggestions. I did not consider cards such as Perilous Forays and Phylath, World Sculptor due to having only four basic lands in the deck. Prismatic Omen would fix the basic land problem, but to me, at least, it’s not worth making room for the bunch. Karametra, God of Harvests and Leyline of Anticipation, I have considered. They just didn’t make the cut in the meantime. Very possible they can be added down the road. All are still viable options if someone wants to build around including them. Thanks for the suggestions!
1 month ago
Savage1988, I appreciate your recommendations of what to change in my deck. You may not have seen Compost in the list because I am making little changes all the time. I'm aiming to build my OmRath list as competitively as possible, and that requires maintenance and play-testing!
Khalni Heart Expedition, Devoted Druid, and Summoner's Pact are all great cards for you to use in the list. For these it's important to note that a lot of people don't neglect these cards because they are bad, but choose to use others because they think others are a slightly better fit. For example, because Omnath, Locus of Rage benefits from landfall triggers, it is usually advantageous to prioritize ramp spells over mana dorks like Devoted Druid.
Gruul Turf is a fantastic card, but doesn't make the cut for the same reason other come-into-play-tapped dual lands don't. It is advantageous to have 1) as many double land drops like Fabled Passage as possible and 2) as many basics as possible for Perilous Forays should you draw it. While Gruul Turf is a great include, it is neither of those 2 things and gets cut from competitive lists. It is worth noting that these two conditions are meant to be for mana fixing lands, not those like Reliquary Tower.
Eternal Witness allows you to recur anything from your grave with any of your creature tutor cards: Green Sun's Zenith, Finale of Devastation, or Chord of Calling. This also means you can recur non-creature cards like enchantments with creature tutor cards. It is important to understand that by adding 1 Eternal Witness to the deck, you yield up to 4 outs in the deck should you ever want to recur something from your grave. While it may not always be your choice, it vastly increases your range of options with creature tutor cards.
Hope this helps!