|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Eldritch Moon||Mythic Rare|
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Legendary Creature — Spider
Delirium - When Ishkanah, Grafwidow enters the battlefield, if there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard, put three 1/2 green Spider creature tokens with reach onto the battlefield.
6 : Target opponent loses 1 life for each Spider you control.
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|Have (11)||Wolfebladeelite , ZombieFood , Matgic , jrschnoebelen , fireborne1986 , zachi , cklise , MattN7498 , abby315 , golgarigirl , ElisabethJoan|
Ishkanah, Grafwidow Discussion
1 week ago
Jund may be viable because the post rotation manabase can be good. Here's a hint: get 4x Dragonskull Summit and 4x Rootbound Crag. The ally colored Check lands are in my opinion going to have a big impact on the most viable decks post rotation and Jund can use two of them; a Mountain can activate both of them.
To begin post rotation being in red is a sure bet because Chandra has the potential to be the new Gideon, Ally of Zendikar an oppressive Planewalker. She's very good with Glorybringer which also gets a huge boost even more than now in Standard because the cards that keep it most in check Grasp of Darkness, Archangel Avacyn Flip and Ishkanah, Grafwidow all rotate. Harnessed Lightning is also still here and it's excellent creature removal.
Black will continue to be good because of Fatal Push and Winding Constrictor, but the lose of Grasp is huge. Some of the best two drops for Jund are rotating, Grim Flayer and Sylvan Advocate. Who takes there place is a guess, but Constrictor makes the most sense because of 3 toughness and it's proven to be good already. It's versatile, can mix two strategies together energy and +1/+1 counters. Gifted Aetherborn also has real potential, as it's good right now, but it's also double black much harder on the manabase. Energy 2 drops are the real winners, Servant of the Conduit, Glint-Sleeve Siphoner and Constrictor are all powerful 2 drops for Jund.
Looking at all the current strategies that Jund can use energy is currently the most powerful with +1/+1 counters a runner up. For the time being I think you're much better off in energy with Jund than anything else.
1 week ago
Hi, Meren of Clan Nel Toth seems like a good Commander for a Delirium strategy because you can get back creatures that go there. There's a Commander 2015 premade deck called "PLUNDER THE GRAVES" which uses her as a Commander. Go here to see the Plunder decklist, scroll down the page. The deck is very good, a great starting point for someone who's new to playing Commander. That's how I started playing Commander; I got the Commander 2014 "GUIDED BY NATURE" Elf premade deck and made upgrades to it. You could do the same by adding a Delirium strategy to Plunder.
Ishkanah, Grafwidow is at a very low price right now and it will get lower once it rotates out of Standard at the end of Sept. 2017. It's another Commander option and is the only Commander who has Delirium. If you're a fan of spiders, "shutter..." check it out. I don't necessarily think the Commander you use needs to have Delirium though since there's only one, haha who does. The Commander you choose should interact with your graveyard in some way; either putting cards in the grave or taking them out.
Go here for a narrowed down card search for a possible Commander who uses the graveyard.
Grapple with the Past is a good budget common option to help to fill the graveyard for Delirium and get back something in return, I recommend adding some.
You're on the right track with adding cycling cards, but consider adding more? Desert of the Indomitable and Desert of the Glorified are budget cycling lands and Dissenter's Deliverance is a budget cycling instant.
In Commander you can play any amount of basic lands as you want, but basic lands are the only card which can be in multiples in a deck. All other cards are 1 ofs. Commander decks use a total of 100 cards this includes your Commander. Go here to learn more about Commander.
Good luck with your deck.
1 week ago
I also played one Scarab God. Boy that card did work! Got to take a GB delirium's Ishkanah, Grafwidow, which pretty much ended the game.
2 weeks ago
Control decks usually run more than 20 lands. Since your deck has a low CMC i would cut the 2 Aven of Enduring Hope for 2 extra lands. Also, try swapping some of the single colored lands for duals like Irrigated Farmland, Lumbering Falls, Scattered Groves and Fortified Village or maybe some Evolving Wilds.
The current standard metagame is full of aggro decks, maybe running Primal Druid instead of Manalith and Traveler's Amulet is a good idea. Thraben Inspector is a great card, i would totally swap some of your less impactful creatures like Wall of Forgotten Pharaohs, God-Pharaoh's Faithful and Eternal of Harsh Truths for a set of Thraben Inspector. Also consider swapping Beneath the Sands for Shefet Monitor. Traverse the Ulvenwald is amazing but kinda pricey.
Life goes on is a card i would definetly try to cut for something better. Cards that just gain life are often not worth of a deck slot. Ambuscade is not suited for control decks. Both cards could be swapped for sweepers like Fumigate or Descend upon the Sinful or better spot removal like Cast Out.
Choosing which creatures to run on a control deck is very diferent from choosing creatures for aggro/midrange decks. On control you almost always divide your creatures between support creatures and finishers. The only finishers you have are 2 Striped Riverwinder so i recommend adding some combination of Ishkanah, Grafwidow, Linvala, the Preserver and Angel of Sanctions for a total of 6 or 7 finishers. Casting a Shefet Monitor can also help you close the game but it doesn't have any evasion so i would use them almost exclusively to ramp.
Unsummon bounce effect is best suited on decks built to exploit the tempo advantage it gives or aggressive decks where temporarily removing a blocker can make a big difference so i would swap it for Spring or Nissa's Renewal.
2 weeks ago
I feel like maybe you were approaching sultai wrong? I feel like a really toolbox-y variant with Strategic Plannings and Oath of Jaces instead of milling the top of your deck (Mindwrack Demon) or discarding from hand (Collective Brutality) works well. Pros for adding green include life-gain (Arborback Stomper), board clogging (Ishkanah, Grafwidow), and mana-fixing/creature tutor (Traverse the Ulvenwald).
As far as being better against the meta, main-boarding those Yahenni's Expertises you have and adding Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet might be good. Also Razaketh, the Foulblooded seems better than some of the eldrazi because it offers evasion and loops with Ever After+ etb triggers.
1 month ago
Stop rushing me guys...
- The Locust God - T2.5: We already have a working infinite mana deck made by Gigi. The fact that it needs colored mana limits the deck's options a bit, and makes it a little Glass-Cannon-y. The token it makes are also good fodder for Skullclamp to dig for your combo. T2.5 is a good place.
- The Scorpion God - T3 - Also an infinite mana game, but needs a bit more setup and is in weaker colors. The fact that he can pick off utility creatures and draw you cards while you set gives him decent utility. Middle of the road in T3.
- The Scarab God - T3 - Not terribly useful, but is a solid Nooze commander, and is a good finisher if anyone can think up any infinite Zombie combos. Lower end of T3.
- Djeru the Purified - T4 or 5 - Not sure yet. As merrowMania pointed out, he's a guarantied Karn or Ugin, but that's still a 5 mana tutor in the command zone that doesn't get the PW out right away. He's also in the weakest solo color identity. I feel this is more T5, but I'll leave it up to you guys.
- Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign - T4 - Draws you cards, changelings and blink effects might round this out a little, and he draws your deck if you go infinite with a sac outlet. Mono-blue is also strong enough to support a mediocre commander.
- Razaketh, the Foulblooded - T1.5 - I made a deck that wins on turns 3 to 4. Need I say more?
- Neheb, the Eternal - T3 - I've already seen some decent decklists that turn stuff like Heartless Hidetsugu into massive red X spells. At the very least his Afflict ability means he's a 3 mana ramp spell in the command zone. Seems good for T3. (viperfang4, If you wan't this to go higher you'll have to make a decklist. Krenko, Kiki, and Zada are already good combo decks, and none of them have been able to break out of T3 because of the weaknesses of mono-Red.)
- Fixed Grenzo link
- If no one objects, I'm going to add the Rishkar list I made to T3. It came out really nicely I think, and somehow I doubt anyone else is going to brew a Rishkar list anytime soon.
- Also adding my Lyzolda, the Blood Witch, as I don't think it's likely that anyone else is building her. (There are several high rated Lyzolda decks on T/O, but none are cEDH builds.)
- I'm going to add this deck I found as our Glissa, the Traitor deck:
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 79 | 48 COMMENTS | 18404 VIEWS | IN 48 FOLDERS
I don't think it's 100% optimized, but it's very close, and it has a lovely primer that goes over the fundamentals of Stax. (Also, having a Glissa list by somebody named Perfect_Phyrexia is to flavorful to pass up.)
- Added Gigi's Locust God list. Masterful also posted a list that was a good contender, but I felt it was a little too muddled in extra win conditions, and Gigi's seemed more straightforward.
- My Razaketh deck is about as perfect as I can make it. I can add it to the deckles section, but I'd like to get people's approval first. I know other people are trying this one, and as NarejED pointed out a while back, it's unhealthy for this project if the people who run it are overrepresented in its resources.
- Added DiabolicEsper's Scorpion God list.
- Added Gigi's more suped up Kozilek, Butcher of Truth list. He had the primer ready to go and everything. Im surprised he didn't put this up sooner.
- Added HezTheGod's Braids list.
Not sure if anyone's noticed (Nvrm, you noticed), but I added a TierBanned decklists section. I thought it would be neat to be able to show people what the banned commanders' decks might look like if we were allowed to play them. So far it only contains thegigibeast's Griselbrand storm list and Lilbrudder's old Leovold list, but anyone who wants to make a hypothetical decklist is welcome to.
The only rule is you can't use other banned cards in the 99, because that would be unrealistic compared to the other decklists in the description. The point is to see how the banned commanders would stack up as cEDH commanders, not how broken it's possible make the format with no banlist. There isn't much competition on cEDH decklists for banned commanders, so if you think you can make a good one then have at it. (Dibs on Rofellos.)
I've also added a new tier. As I'm sure you're all aware, we're going to be getting a new Un-set soon, Unstable. In preparation for the momentous occasion, I have added TierInsanity to the list! It fits right below TierBanned, so the layout of the list won't be affected. Since they are not legal in commander Un-legendary decklists can also fit in the TierBanned section. I will be adding lists for them as soon as I find people crazy enough to make them. (I found a funny Richard Garfield, Ph.D. deck floating around this site already, but I'd be happy with a new submission that actually tries to optimize the deck. Interestingly, an optimized Richard seems like it would actually need to play a lot of expensive cards, since you need to make it to 5 mana before you can use his ability.)
Also, a few pieces useful information on the un-commanders you should use if you're going to make a decklist:
- Frankie Peanuts cannot keep a player from conceding or force them to concede. Players can concede an any time, and this is outside of all game rules, Un or otherwise. Maro has specified this. Multiple times.
- Frankie Peanuts also does not force a player to reveal hidden information, or use hidden information to abide by the answer given. Source
- Richard Garfield can't let you cast cards as if they were cards that are banned in commander. Source
- For now at least, lets say that all of the cards in the 99 have to be black border. It would be too confusing otherwise.
Ohthenoises pointed out in comment that it might be worthwhile to consolidate a list of every commander that can be used to win the game as a outlet for infinite mana. I went through the list and here are the results:
- Thrasios, Triton Hero (colorless)
- Prossh, Skyraider of Kher (With sac outlet)
- General Tazri (With sac outlet)
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang
- Sidisi, Undead Vizier
- Breya, Etherium Shaper
- Sidisi, Brood Tyrant (With sac outlet)
- Sliver Queen (colorless)
- Oona, Queen of the Fae (colorless)
- Nin, the Pain Artist (colorless)
- Marath, Will of the Wild
- Grenzo, Dungeon Warden (colorless)
- Ghave, Guru of Spores
- Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (With sac outlet)
- Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed (Needs a finishing black spell to function) (Hard to interact with)
- Sakashima the Impostor (Needs a creature to copy with an ETB, LTB, or cast trigger to function)
- Oloro, Ageless Ascetic (Needs infinite life gain triggers to function)
- Kefnet the Mindful
- Kamahl, Fist of Krosa (Needs Creatures to function)
- Jazal Goldmane (Needs Creatures to function)
- Geth, Lord of the Vault (Needs an artifact or creature in each opponent's graveyards to function)
- Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Needs Elves to function)
- Depala, Pilot Exemplar
- Daxos the Returned (Needs Haste or grave storm to win same turn)
- Arcanis the Omnipotent (Needs Haste to function)
- The Scorpion God (Needs specific creatures)
- Reaper King (With sac outlet)
- Omnath, Locus of Rage (With sac outlet)
- Ambassador Laquatus (colorless)
- Bosh, Iron Golem
- Heliod, God of the Sun (Needs haste to win same turn)
- Ishkanah, Grafwidow
- Kaseto, Orochi Archmage (Only kills one player a turn)
- Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
- Nemata, Grove Guardian (needs Haste to win same turn)
- Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
- Nylea, God of the Hunt (Needs Creatures to function)
- Oketra the True (Needs haste to win same turn)
- Rhonas the Indomitable (Needs Creatures to function)
- Ulasht, the Hate Seed
- Verdeloth the Ancient (Colorless) (Needs Haste to win same turn)
- Gonti, Lord of Luxury (With sac outlet)
- Maga, Traitor to Mortals (With sac outlet) (partly colorless)
- Pia and Kiran Nalaar (With sac outlet)
- Vela the Night-Clad (With sac outlet)
- Yosei, the Morning Star (With sac outlet)
- Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign (With sac outlet)
- Kumano, Master Yamabushi
- Latulla, Keldon Overseer (Only kills one player a turn) (Needs cards in hand to function)
- Obzedat, Ghost Council (With sac outlet)
- Ghost Council of Orzhova (With sac outlet)
Interesting things to note about the results here:
There are far more of them than I expected in the lower tiers, specifically T4. I'm probably going to make some adjustments based on this.
"With a sac outlet" just means some way to remove the commander so you can recast it. Food Chain counts.
"Colorless" commanders mean you only need an unlimited amount of colorless mana to win. This is always going to be an edge for that commander, since making infinite colorless mana is possible in every color identity, and is a lower barrier to entry.
A lot of the commanders in the upper tiers have more effecient strategies that make infinite mana game plans unnecessary. For instance, it doesn't really matter that infinite mana wins you the game with Sidisi, Undead Vizier.
Based on evaluating commanders off of infinite mana gamelans, and my review of the lower tiers, I've decided to make some general upkeep adjustments to the lower tiers.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Moved to T4: She has a combo that blows up all non-creature permanents and is tutorable in her color. Not great, but better than useless.
Sakiko, Mother of Summer Moved to T4: That's a lot of ramp. I'm sure there are some green shenanigans that can capitalize on that. CMC 6 is a little hefty for the effect, but she's not uncastable.
Triad of Fates, Moved to T4: There's actually a surprising amount of ways to speed up this ability, from Thousand-Year Elixir to Illusionist's Bracers and Oblivion Stone to Eye of Doom. With a black/white color identity it's reasonable to have enough tutors to se them every game, and then you have a draw engine / creature removal option that can help you dig for combos. Not the greatest, but I think T4 is a better fit.
Obzedat, Ghost Council and Ghost Council of Orzhova, Both moved to T4: I'm a bit hesitant on these guys, since a while back I vehemently argued that they should stay right where they are, but if you look at them from an infinite mana perspective, and not as incremental life drain engines, then they suddenly become a lot less janky. They have a lot of hoops to jump through, needing both infinite colored mana AND a sacrifice outlet to remove themselves, but seeing as the best infinite mana combos in Black/White tend to use sac outlets already, it's probably enough to bump these two to T4.
Kumano, Master Yamabushi, Possible move to T4: Not sure on this one. On one hand, infinite mana is a guaranteed win. On the other, few combos in mono-Red, almost 0 tutors, and he's completely useless outside of the combo. Could be T4? Maybe? Tell me what you think guys.
Ambassador Laquatus, Moved to T3: Blue is one of the best infinite mana colors right now, with Basalt/Rings, Dramatic/Scepter, and Pili/Architect all being searchable by artifact tutors. Laquatus was in T4 mostly for being looked at as "Oona without black," but I think he's probably the best infinite mana commander in mono-Blue, and deserves a spot in T3.
Erebos, God of the Dead, Moved to T3: People have been clamoring for it. and while I still haven't seen a decklist that's cEDH worthy, I can't deny that refilling your hand from the command zone is good enough for T3
Ghoulcaller Gisa, Moved to T3: She's a competent Stax commander, and mono-black has good enough ramp to offset her 5 CMC.
Ishkanah, Grafwidow, Moved to T3. A G/B infinite mana sink is nothing to scoff at. I think we put her in T4 originally as a way to denote she was worse than other options of the same deck, like Tasigur. But now that that archetype has branched out into multiple decks due to Thrasios gabbing the top spot, it's a little unrealistic to act like only one commander can represent the infinite mana plan. Not having blue definitely hurts her, but G/B is a solid color identity, and the fact that she herself is a piece in Nim Deathmantle gives her a leg up as well.
Vela the Night-Clad, Moved to T3: Vela has always been a weird fringe deck that people don't know what to do with. The problem is mostly that her abilities seem contradictory. Do you want to focus on attacking with creatures, or do you want to make creatures leave play? It's a bit murky what strategy fits her best, but now that I've taken a look at her from an infinite mana combo, I think her best strategy is probably to look for an infinite mana combo with a sac outlet, and infinite LTB combo (Deadeye combo probs), or bomb with Blade of Selves/Rite of Replication. (Not to mention, a certain card that may or may not be coming out next set forms a 2 card combo with her.)
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch, Moved to T3: I already made a decklist on this. Infinite mana is a guarantied win.
- Jazal Goldmane Moved to T4: I defended Jazal for quite some time, as his unusual tiny creature aggro strategy can often deal 40 damage to a player on turn 4 or 5. However, with the increasing power level that recent card printings have pushed onto tiers 1 through 3, it's becoming quite clear that the ability to take out just one player quickly is better relegated to T4, as most voltron commanders are already.
The leaked commanders' placements so far. Not linking them, you can look them up if you want to.
- Ur-Dragon - T5
- Ramos - T2.5 maybe 3
- O-Kagachi - T4
- Wasitora - T4 maybe 3
- Taigam - T3 maybe 2.5 (I think we've been going about this guy the wrong way so far. Everyone's been building storm, but rebound doesn't really help storm. Something interesting I just came across is the idea of using him for turns instead. Rebound makes every Time Warp into a Time Stretch instead. Add in a little spell recursion and you could easily take 10+ turns in row. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage's ult would then turn that into infinite turns.
- Mynea Frian, Dark Apostle - T5
- Kopala, Warden of Waves - T4
- Admiral Beckett Brass - T4 maybe 3
- Gishark, Sun's Avatar - T5 maybe 4
- Tiehana, Voice of Thunder - T?
- Captain Lannery Storm - T5
1 month ago
InfuriatedBrute Let me formally back off a bit here; I have nothing against your feedback! Seems I mistook maybe quick/offhand comments for rudeness. It just pushes a button when it looks like people skip over a description I put a lot of work into. But no harm no foul, please feel free to keep hashing this out if you're interested. Long comment below because I always write too much about decks:
Talking bout deck philosophy Show
So this is more of a Johnny build than a Spike build; I'm building it based more around the Reanimator interactions than making it the most competitive B/W midrange deck on the market. I have a fairly stock Temur energy list for when I want to win FNM, but it's getting really boring and I wanted to try to emulate my B/R Reanimator list in legacy with a new pseudo G-Brand.
That being said, I have like 0% interest in making a mono-white Brisela or Legendaries list with Thalia's Lancers etc., I don't even like as a color combo, haha. I'm just trying to make a core deck of Liliana, Death's Majesty + Razaketh, the Foulblooded as good as it can be, knowing full well that standard isn't designed to really support that archetype ever since Solar Flare decks. :(
Also, pointing out that Liliana, Death's Majesty mills. But yeah, I was looking around for other options, and Gate to the Afterlife is really the only other good thing to do, but now that the other half has been spoiled and it's just expensive Eternalize I think it's better to just design a midrange deck that has this reanimator synergy.
Which is what I'm going for: a midrange deck with inevitability. I think bringing the GY into this deck with Lili gives a midrange deck what it wants: an extended and recursive hand.
I had a more traditional G/B list in the works, which played like delirium, but if I'm going to do all the work of getting an 8/8 Diabolic Intent on the field it feels like the deck should win in the next couple turns, or I risk getting blown out by value because I spend a lot of resources setting that up. That's how I've designed the deck around here; white has the best game-ending options that I found. Ishkanah, Grafwidow was the best thing to search up in G/B.
I hear you on Gisela being removable, though I don't really know how much of a big deal that is; she's always been one of those cards where you remove her or lose. And if she gets into the GY for later recursion I think that's okay, too. I haven't really been able to find other good-to-play-and-reanimate targets around that CMC... there's Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Gonti, Lord of Luxury, Kalitas but I already have him in, Mindwrack Demon but I can't afford to take dmg and don't have other ways of getting delirium, Oketra but she's bad... yeah. They don't really pack the 1-2 punch that Gisela does or fill out a midrange curve. It's possible Thalia should be in there, though.
I think I agree that Solemnity should just be sideboarded so it can come out naturally. But I'm not sure why you're seeing Approach of the Second Sun as unreliable, especially next to creatures. The only thing that can interact with it is counterspells, but counterspells shit on this deck anyway. It's much less conditional (doesn't need combat, more difficult to interact, needs fewer turns) than even Brisela. Even if Razaketh gets removed in response to the first cast and I can't tutor it back out, Liliana +1 mill gets me there faster (draw for turn + mill 2, draw for turn + mill 2, draw Approach if I'm thinking about it correctly--puts me just a turn behind).
The way I'm thinking about this deck is midrange curve + big finish if I can get it/need it. It might be right to reconfigure and take out Fumigate, Solemnity, and Never / Return to fill out a midrange curve and just keep the "combo" finish at one-ofs Approach and Bruna, adding Thalia, Heretic Cathar for those Glorybringers or more consolidated removal like Anguished Unmaking.
1 month ago
I agree that Kefnet is hard to turn on, and we do have Ishkanah, Grafwidow's ability to win with when the board stalls. I'm planning on switching back to Glimmer of Genius as it is the most consistent draw spell we have, but for FNM tomorrow I'll give Scour the Laboratory another go. I like Painful Truths, as it is one of my pet cards, but I'm not sold on it over another card draw instant, as we are playing a Torrential Gearhulk deck. For slow decks I board a Jace, Unraveler of Secrets for recurring card draw and a pusedo-wincon. I also like him against Zombies. Being able to bounce twice then start drawing has been a lot better than Glimmer of Genius, which I side out. As for Grim Flayer, turning on opponents removal is part of the nature of the deck, but I'm not really interested in turning on their Fatal Push. When they use a more expensive removal spell I find that I can almost always survive, as all of our creatures are at least 2 for 1s, but Fatal Push is just too efficient, letting them set you back and have enough mana to advance themselves. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the observation I have made. I'll update the deck again soon.