Serious Ponza

Modern clayperce

SCORE: 146 | 181 COMMENTS | 31681 VIEWS | IN 40 FOLDERS


Comment sweep —April 6, 2018

As always, thanks to everyone who's made comments and suggestions! They're all archived here or behind the View Archive button below.

Bovine073 says... #1

This looks excellent, just excellent.

Just a few suggestions/comments for you.

First off is Beast Within. This card, in my eyes, is too good simply not to play 4 of it. It just does everything. I high;y, highly, suggest running 4 (or at least three, remove an Acid-Moss I'd say?). Second is Anger in the sideboard, I'd suggest simply just running a 4th bonfire. Unless your meta has a dedicated dredge deck, you'll always want the bonfire over it imo. Glad to see you running Primal Command, I hope to see some real value against DS with it. Now, talking some more sideboard. I'd say one Shatterstorm has a place there instead of a grudge, just to help against affinity a bit more. Also, Gut Shot is another option which you can just use to kill mana dorks, because they are just really bad for this deck. However, I don't think it is as good anymore because of the drop of Infect-based strategies in Modern. Lastly, regarding the Emperion combo. It is basically "you win the game" against burn G1, and in any subsequent games if they don't bring in removal for it (or if they don't see it G1 or G2). But against basically any other deck, I don't see as much of a need for it. Overall, I would advise against running it, but that is just my own experience with it.

Sorry for the jumbled wall of text. Anyways, good luck and I hope you do well with the deck! Post some updates for me :P

April 26, 2017 noon

Moonbar says... #2

Bovine073, (And clayperce, of course) I couldn't agree more about the Beast Within and the Shatterstorm. I find that Beast Within has so much utility that running it as a two-of is not great. I'd like to add that removing Primal Command seems very good, because that card just doesn't do enough for 5 mana. It just feels very medium. In addition, removing a Mwonvuli Acid-Moss seems bad since you want at least 8 mainboard LD effects.

As for the Platinum Emperion combo, here is my analysis. It is game over game one against Burn and Affinity, both tough matchups. It retains value against Affinity games 2 and 3 because they don't have enough removal to deal with it. In the other matchups, it is a dead card, sure, but what is the problem there? Those are the matchups where Blood Moon and Stone Rain effects are insane, so just playing a dumb 8/8 that does nothing is entirely fine. It can be brought out as a package in those matchups, no problem. The combo just fuels some of those easy wins out of nowhere, and even if it gets blown up after a turn or two, it saved some damage and provided at least a turn's worth of time to play out more things.

April 26, 2017 12:49 p.m.

Bovine073 says... #3

Moonbar while I agree that Primal Command isn't a great card in a normal meta, it absolutely just hoses DS decks.

April 26, 2017 12:54 p.m.

Moonbar says... #4

Bovine073, I don't know that the deck needs help against DS... they run at max 9 mana producing lands and we run at least 8 MB LD spells.

April 26, 2017 12:57 p.m.

GeminiSpartanX says... #5

I'm not as high as Moonbar and Bovine073 are about running the full 4 Beast Within. Removal is great and all, but the lack of card advantage in this deck means that a threat-light hand with Beast Withins might give your opponent the tools to win the game if your draws go south. I prefer overloading on threats. Something I've been considering with my build is adding the 2nd Primal Command like you have here and going for more of a toolbox approach with it, in which case you could cut down on the 2nd Stormbreath Dragon and 2nd Obstinate Baloth add a MD Thrun, the Last Troll along with a Scavenging Ooze for tutor targets. I'm trying out a single Acidic Slime in my SB currently to try out this strategy, which can replace a now MD Scooze or Finks in your list here if you want to try it as well. This may be the wrong approach, but it's something that I've been toying with.

The madcap combo does shut down some decks, but I haven't tested it in gameplay to know whether it's better than some of the other cards in the deck currently. It seems like some decks remove Stormbreath Dragons for the combo in order to fit it in, but I think Stormbreath is so incredibly well-positioned right now in the meta that it deserves it's spot here. I'm personally not a fan of having 8-drops in the deck, since drawing them seems really bad and this deck can be inconsistent enough as-is that I don't want to risk drawing drawing any more dead cards than necessary, which is why I prefer just running more midrange threats.

April 26, 2017 2:12 p.m.

clayperce says... #6

Finally catching up on comments ...

Bovine073,
Thanks so much! Beast Within is superb tech, but in my matches so far I've found it a dead card in hand a couple times, and I only VERY rarely want one in my opening hand. So 2x feels about right. I'll try it as a 3x at some point though, as I'm suspect that over time I'll find more value in it.

Anger of the Gods in sideboard is there mostly because I already had it, but I do like the Exile effect and also the low cost. A good point though, and I'll keep the idea of one more Bonfire in mind.

Great call on Shatterstorm ... I looked around and found I actually had an old Revised edition one!

I ran Gut Shot in UG Infect for a while, and found it underwhelming. It's another one I'll keep in mind though, as the meta shifts around.

Platinum Emperion is out for now for budget reasons. I'll probably try it sometime, but I've still got a TON to learn on the current list, so it may be a while! :-)

Thank you again, and I'll definitely post updates!

Moonbar,
Thanks much for your comments on Beast Within, Shatterstorm, and Platinum Emperion; my initial thoughts are above.

I've been super-impressed with Primal Command actually. Seven Life plus a Tutor has saved my bacon WAY too many games to not want to keep it. Of course, if I had a different card in the slot, I might not have needed my bacon to be saved in the first place, so I'm keeping an open mind. But my first impressions have been that it's TOTALLY worth the mana.

Yeah, I like getting both destruction and ramp in the same package too much to consider removing a Mwonvuli Acid-Moss at this point.

I've only faced one Death's Shadow deck so far, but the hand disruption made my Land Destruction spells pretty much useless. I'd love to find out it's an easy match up though, as there are a bunch at my favorite LGS.

Thanks again!

GeminiSpartanX,
Yeah, I'm a big fan of the toolbox approach (so far, anyways). Though I'm less a fan of spending 5 mana to get 2- and 4-CMC cards. I know sometimes you just HAVE to, but that doesn't mean I enjoy it! :-)

Funny you should mention Thrun, the Last Troll though ... I'm not sure where he's going to fit yet, but my matches so far have convinced me I want one somewhere in the 75 for sure.

Yeah, I have no idea where I'll put Big Robot if I ever add it to the deck. But I'm not inclined to pull any Stormbreath Dragons at this point either.

Thanks again, to all!

May 1, 2017 7:27 p.m. Edited.

Bovine073 says... #7

A card from Amonkhet that's been making waves has caught my eye... what do you think about Glorybringer? It's fast, it flies, it's removal on a stick... and good buddy Stormbreath just isn't as good in the current meta I'd say... makes me think.

May 3, 2017 12:21 p.m.

clayperce says... #8

Bovine073,
I love Glorybringer in Standard, but prefer Stormbreath Dragon in this deck (well, so far, anyways). It's probably just a meta call though. Here are my thoughts on the cards I considered for the 2x Stormbreath slots:

May 3, 2017 2:27 p.m.

Moonbar says... #9

Bovine073, I agree with clayperce here; Glorybringer is insane in standard, but Stormbreath Dragon just is so much more effective in modern, dodging everything but Terminate and Dismember. I think that not being hit by Path to Exile is incredibly important here, since it makes by far the most resilient threat in the deck. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker is the other one I could see being played since it also dodges most removal, but Path to Exile is more common than Terminate, and Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker still dies to creatures attacking it.

May 3, 2017 5:33 p.m.

Bovine073 says... #10

I had generally reached the same conclusion, but will definitely continue to look for situations in games where I would have wanted it over a Stormbreath. Thanks for the input both of you.

May 3, 2017 11 p.m.

You could always do a 1-1 split with 1-2 Primal Commands to tutor up the one you need in the current situation. That's the joy of toolbox threats :) (Although I personally lean more towards Stormbreath in modern in general).

May 4, 2017 6:14 a.m.

Moonbar says... #12

I find this tournament report very indicative with how your list is. You seemed to have some trouble in what are some amazing matchups. Now, I will preface this with saying that I acknowledge that this was your first tournament with the deck. However:

I stand by my decision to remove Primal Command altogether. It is a very medium card compared to Beast Within. It is of narrow use for three of its modes, and it just acts like a 5-drop creature with the fetch mode spread over two turns. Meanwhile, Beast Within hits everything and anything you want, and all of your threats kill the beast token.

I think there are better threats to run than Obstinate Baloth. While I don't know your exact meta, if it isn't filled to the brim with DSJ and gag 8-Rack, I think that Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Chandra, Flamecaller would be just straight better. Moving the baloths to the side instead of the Beast Within that's going to the main and maybe the Magus of the Moon.

That brings me to the sideboard, anyways. Why are you running Magus of the Moon? It is just a really bad Blood Moon. I think that that card should only be run in a creatures toolbox deck, not in Ponza, since people have an easier time killing a little 2/2 with only red mana than an enchantment.

In terms of the matchups you described, I have some advice. First of all, Trondrazi should be a 2-0 for you 9/10 times. Just get a Blood Moon in your opener or a Stone Rain. Just setting them back with constant LD is actually better than Blood Moon in some situations. In addition, as long as they don't have 7+ mana, sticking an Inferno Titan is just GG most times, since none of their creatures can kill it besides a Basilisk Collar + Walking Ballista . As long as you play smart and cover your butt with LD, you should win every time.

For Skred Red, this is actually somehow better than Trondrazi. It is for simply one reason: both decks rely on a Blood Moon lock. Yours wins, though, by destroying their lands so that they can never play spells. They forgo this to have a higher threat density. The problem for them is that they can't cast said threats through three Stone Rains backed up with a Chandra, Flamecaller. I don't even really sideboard for them since it is so easy of a matchup.

Finally, Valakut. Just LD the crap outta them. Even if you aren't hitting Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, just keeping them off of 6 mana is good game. Both decks ramp; one combos when it gets there, the other plays huge Timmy creatures. If they don't have 6 mana, then they can't cast Primeval Titan, and then they can't win the value game either. I've had Valakut opponents scoop to a single Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, since he knew it meant turn 4 six-drop that he can't answer. Play the LD aggressively and you will come out ahead.

May 6, 2017 11:19 p.m.

clayperce says... #14

Moonbar,
I explained above why I like Primal Command. And frankly, BERNASTORRES (1x in the main), Blockhouse (2x), Gordon Clinard (2x), Ryan Shaner (1x), and Sukumar Natarajan (2x) all agree with me.

I agree that Obstinate Baloth is the weakest Creature; those are the slots I normally use to test other cards.

I run Magus of the Moon as Blood Moon #5.

Thanks though, for your thoughts on the match-ups. Your strategy is of course sound, though it's less effective if you don't draw as much Land Destruction as you'd like. You might imagine that's why I commented "it would be great to have just a little more card advantage" in my tournament write-up ...

May 7, 2017 11:16 a.m. Edited.

Moonbar says... #15

Okay, we'll have to agree to disagree on Primal Command. I also assume that the command is better in a more DSJ-filled meta.

Chandra, Flamecaller is the card advantage you are looking for. Planeswalkers are known to just be card advantage, and she pitches the useless land topdecks to get you more cards. Also, sticking her against control decks is game nine out of ten times.

In terms of not getting LD, it is of course possible not to draw any. However, in the matchups where it really matters, like Skred Red, Valakut, Eldrazi-Tron, and Tron itself, my list has 16 land-disruption spells, which is almost a guarantee that I'll get some either in the opener or in the first few turns. And if I don't get any in the opener in the matchup, I can just mulligan and get one. This deck really schools you in aggressively mulliganing in general.

May 7, 2017 2:18 p.m.

Bovine073 says... #16

Moonbar I only see twelve LD spells in your list, unless you're counting Moon...

May 8, 2017 9:30 a.m.

Moonbar says... #17

Bovine073, I did say Land Disruption spells, I am pretty sure that Blood Moon fits that bill.

May 8, 2017 10:17 a.m.

Bovine073 says... #18

Moonbar ah, misread disruption as destruction. Sorry.

May 8, 2017 10:30 a.m.

Moonbar says... #19

Bovine073 my question for you is about the bad matchups like Storm and Fish... do you even sideboard for those or just take the L?

May 8, 2017 1:15 p.m.

Bovine073 says... #20

I sideboard for those, pithing needles and grudges for fish, trinisphere and scooze for storm.

May 8, 2017 2:17 p.m.

Moonbar says... #21

Dude, it obvious that you feel a lot more comfortable already. For U/W control, or Blue control deck in general, I have a suggestion. Run a singleton Choke in your sideboard. I (personally) would pull Magus of the Moon for it, but that's just me. Either way, it just shuts them down cold, and gives you some game against Merfolk and Storm. Turn 2 Choke followed by a Blood Moon is lights out, and it happens more often than you would think. My current meta is really heavy on U/W right now, so I'm also testing out Nissa, Vital Force which, I have been told by all of those control players, is game over should you untap with it. I haven't gotten to use it yet, so I'll get back to you on that. Nice work though!

May 18, 2017 1:19 a.m.

clayperce says... #22

Moonbar,
Thanks much for the comments, and also for the suggestion of Choke. I've liked it in testing for sure (though as I mention in the latest tournament report, WAY too many of my Lands had Spreading Seas attached to make it any good last night).

I'm going to see if Vexing Shusher works; I'll let you know how it goes!

May 19, 2017 12:42 p.m. Edited.

Bovine073 says... #23

"Plus I totally missed the trigger when I milled Obstinate Baloth."

What trigger did you miss? Baloth is only discard I thought?

May 20, 2017 5:46 a.m.

clayperce says... #24

Bovine073,
Oh yeah ... maybe I should rtfc! :-D
I feel better now about the game though!

I'll edit the write-up.

May 20, 2017 6:57 a.m.

Bovine073 says... #25

It's because of decks like Bant Eldrazi (aka running Hierarch) that I have a Gut Shot in the board. I generally SB out Beast Within against them as well. The fourth bonfire from my board is also a game-changer sometimes. Has Chameleon Colossus worked that well for you? I feel like our matchups against black midrange strategies are already pretty good. But, swinging in with an 8/8 on T5 does sound fun...

June 6, 2017 2:58 p.m.