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Think Twice Discussion
5 days ago
I have to admit, I'm not really a believer in Hedonist's Trove in modern, for two reasons: first - because of speed. Second - because GY hate still works against you. And other decks play a lot of GY-hate. Trove is just not as funny, if all you get is a couple of fetchlands and a Street Wraith.
Other than that, all the oh-so-unoriginal netdecks are using a set of cards, commonly referred to as "staples", NOT because they deckbuilders are uninventive (well, they might be) but because it's the better cards. For example, Fatal Push is popular because it only costs 1 mana, rather than 2 or 3, and still deals with the vast majority of threats. Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize are good game-openers for all decks, but control-decks in particular. Both of them really say: "get rid of the worst threat in your opponents starting hand". You might not like it, or it might not be amazingly brilliant, and it certainly is brutal on the budget, but at 1 mana it's hard to come up with any better play in modern.
You play 6 3-cmc counterspells. None of them are really bad, as such, but it's a bit easy to play around them. If you found a really good transmute-target for Perplex it would be a more useful card. If you had more creatures to get back from the graveyard, Soul Manipulation would be a more useful card. Perplex looks like a counterspell with an added upside... until you've looked a bit at it. If you can't use transmute, it's really just a Cancel with a downside (2 coloured mana +1 colorless, counter target spell DOWNSIDE: doesn't work against an opponent in topdeck mode, or with bad cards in hand).
Creatures: any particular reason, you have picked exactly these? I mean... dragons are nice n'all, but these just seem a bit random. Ok, Icefall Regent is not nice, when you consider its cost along with its toughness of 3. Frost Titan instead? costs 1 more mana, but is much bigger (doesn't die to Lightning Bolt).
Jace's Ingenuity is overcosted. badly. really bad. Other decks (boring and uninventive as they might be) play Ancestral Vision. That's 1 mana for 3 cards. Or Think Twice for non-millionaires. That's quite a bit more mana pr. card.
6 days ago
WItC & abby315: Thank you both so much for your input. I had a feeling something just wasn't right. I'm getting the feeling that maybe throwing in something janky like The Unspeakable and the cards that go with it might not be the best thing to draw further interest in the control style. Going forward, let's assume I ditch that set of cards as well as Delver of Secrets
Flip. Instead I will put in 2 copies of AEtherling, which I already own, as the win-con. This frees up 14 card slots.
abby315: You make a great point about playing Brainstorm without fetches. I hadn't really thought of that. I don't have Ponder, but I have a playset of Serum Visions. Do you think that would be a decent enough alternative to Brainstorm?
WItC: I have a set of Engulf the Shore. Do you think that would be best as a 3 of or 4 or?
As far as better draw, I know I have at least 1 Blue Sun's Zenith that I can put in here. I also have some Think Twice, but don't know if 3 or 4 would be best. I can also definitely add some Dissolve which I know I have at least 3 of, as well as one or two Dismiss.
How many counterspells do you all think is a good number total? Any new suggestions, now that there's some free slots?
6 days ago
I never liked playing Divination early game when i had a counter up. Think Twice is a bit more expensive in the short run but when you think about it you would only spend unused mana on it.
It is also 2 mana cheaper when you have a goblin out. Also you get 2 drakes instead of 1 when you have talrand out!
Evolving Wilds are also not that good in a 2 colour deck. Izzet Guildgate is far better as it gives you both of your colours at the same speed evolving wilds gives you 1.
Or even better Swiftwater Cliffs for some small lifegain.
I don't know about what you play against with your friends.
A suggestion could be Enigma Drake
The big difference between Spellheart Chimera and Enigma Drake is that Spellheart Chimera has trample but Enigma Drake has 1 more health. This could be the difference between surviving a Searing Spear and dying to it.
Also you better keep playing that kick ass Stormtide Leviathan ;)
1 week ago
I would use Vapor Snag over Unsummon. Also Distortion Strike might be useful.You should add some flashback spells to get more value out of your cards. Faithless Looting, Reckless Charge, Nightbird's Clutches, Desperate Ravings, Think Twice
1 week ago
I'm surprised to see Glimmer in this list as opposed to Think Twice or Hieroglyphic Illumination since you don't need the energy. I think 1-2 Logic Knots might fit in the list a little better than mana leaks 3 & 4 too, but I guess we'll need to test and find out!
1 week ago
@casmiel Thanks for the suggestions! Originally I ran Supreme Verdict over Wrath of God, but I switched over at one point when I was cutting a few blue sources for Ghost Quarters (an endeavor that failed due to the triple blue on Cryptic Command lmao). Now that the blue sources are all back in and you've so kindly reminded me, the Supreme Verdicts can come back into the main board. As for Think Twice, I've been playing with it on and off ever since I built the deck. On the one hand, I see all the top placing lists winning with it, but on the other hand, whenever I draw it, I feel like I'd so much rather to have drawn something else. At this point I'm fairly certain what it comes down to is my local meta - in the three local stores I play in, there's an overwhelmingly large majority of aggro decks, against which I'd much rather be countering or killing on turn 2 instead of setting up card advantage down the line. While I'm sure it's a fantastic card against a bigger sample pool of opponents, I think for my local meta I'm best off with it out. Thanks though!
1 week ago
Also, I couldn't help but notice your lack of Think Twice. The power level of the card isn't really obvious sometimes, but there are good reasons as to why it shows up in pretty much all Esper Control decks with strong tournament and league finishes. If you play Draw-Go, there are pretty much 2 golden rules for me:
You want to use your mana
You really want to use your mana
Think Twice is pretty much spot on in this regard. Early game it helps you cycle to your lands and answers, lategame it is card-advantage at instant speed. Card draw at instant speed is really powerful because it is always useful at any stage, often your counters or removal just don't add up to the situation at hand. Having a Think Twice on hand / in the graveyard in situations like this is really valuable. Here is relatively recent discussion about the usefulness of Think Twice:
2 weeks ago
Think Twice could be a nice way to keep the spells coming, and Goblin Electromancer and Curious Homunculus Flip would make a lot of them cheaper to cast. Brainstorm, Blue Sun's Zenith Treasure Cruise offer more cheap card draw. Izzet Signet and Mind Stone could be good for ramp and for fixing, in the first case. Young Pyromancer, Docent of Perfection Flip, and Talrand, Sky Summoner could be nice to pump out bodies. Archaeomancer offers a second Mnemonic Wall, not that I want to encourage any more of that. Rapid Hybridization, Curse of the Swine, Grapeshot, and Reality Shift offer some real cheap removal. Elixir of Immortality could help prevent self-mill. Also for cheap duals there are Izzet Boilerworks, Izzet Guildgate, and Highland Lake. Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse offer cheap fetching, and Lonely Sandbar and Forgotten Cave might work well too.
With all the cancels Baral might be decent as well, though he's a touch pricey. Come to think of it, Baral and Kari Zev's expertise cards could also help cast two spells in one turn.
Just my thoughts; I look forward to playing against it.